Hi all, I have a Mk1 and a 250 of my late father’s and a friend and I are trying to get started. My dad died 3 years ago and apparently they were running then.

I’ve fitted a new fuel pump to the mk1 and had the starter reconditioned on the 250. Both cars attempt to start, but the engines don’t fire up. Both have fully charged batteries, fresh fuel, fuel going to the engine (you can smell it!), tried a voltage meter to the leads and there’s power to them when turning over, still no joy though.

We’re going to try new spark plugs on both to see if that helps. Mk1’s has Bosch Super R0 168 and 250 has N5C marked on them. Are these the best plugs to source please or are there better alternatives?

If still no luck, what’s the next best thing to check please? Carbs or distributor cap maybe? I’m not experienced at all with either I’m afraid.

Hoping someone can help here please. Many thanks.

 

I am not sure what you mean when you say you put a voltmeter to the leads. Do you mean the leads to the coil and distributor?
I don't know of any common voltmeter which can measure the ignition spark voltage.

A common problem in cars laid up like this is they develop corrosion on the points in the distributor. This stops the ignition system from working.
I suggest clean the distributor points with some wet and dry sandpaper.

 

As Bill says check the distributor.
For the engine to start you need four things.
1. Fuel, which you sound like you have although too much fuel can also drown the spark plugs which as called flooding the engine. Check that the top of the carbs are topped up with oil and that the lifters move. Spraying some carburettor cleaner into all the holes you can get to might help as old fuel tends to turn to varnish and this can block up the carbs. Try spraying some easy start into the mouth of each carb and try to start it. If it starts but stops again then it is a fuel problem. If it does not fire up then check the following.
2. Air into the carburettor so check that the air filter is clean or remove it. Check that the butterflies on the carbs are opening and opening together.
3. Spark. Check there is a spark at the plugs. This can be done by spinning the engine with one plug out but connected to the HT lead. Hold the plug close to an earth, one of the head bolts will do and see if you get a spark arc. You might feel it before you see it but it will not kill you. No spark and you have to go back down the line to the coil which might need replacing. Then Bills suggestion of the distributor. Check the points gap. Change the condenser as these can fail. Clean as Bill says all the contacts. Change the HT leads as these can break down but not all at the same time so the engine might start but only fire on 5 instead of 6 cylinders although if the HT lead from the coil to the distributor is faulty the car will not start. Check the earths on both the coil and distributor as there might be a poor earth caused by corrosion at the point where the earth goes to the body of the car.
4. Lastly you need timing. As the engine used to run unless you have removed the distributor the timing should be OK but if you read the manual it will explain how to check the timing using the timing mark on the front pulley.
If you have all four then you should have a running engine. How it runs is a different matter. Easy start might be your friend in diagnosing the initial problem.

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes on the leads that pulled off the plugs as I was turning the car over, but yes after looking online and seeing how silly this was I guess this can be no indication they’re working! My friend who was looking at the multimeter (and said he had never used one before) said some numbers flashed up on the screen as I was trying the ignition and I took from that there was power going to the plugs and all was ok. I’ve probably fried my multimeter!

We did clean the distributor on one of them but it sadly made no difference. Cleaned up the points on the cap and the spinning thing (for lack of a better term) until it was shiny. Still no luck sadly.

Could it have anything to do with the choke at all please? It is different to ones I have used before where they pull out and stay out until the car is warm. I take it they are some sort of primer where you pump it a few times before starting? It doesn’t seem to build up resistance at all (both are quite hard to pull in and out) but it seems to have no bearing. I’ve also tried pumping the throttle when starting but still no joy.

 

thanks for the detailed response.

We checked the carbs on one car (the v8) but removing the little black dipsticks on the top. One bank moved up and down and the other bank had no resistance. I’m guess this means this one is dirty but would the car still fire up on the other bank?

I’ve just ordered some easy start so thanks for that. Is carb cleaner worth a go too or should this suffice please? Can I just squirt it into the one that’s not moving up and down?

We did try seeing if there was a spark by earthing the spark plug but had no joy seeing any arc. I’m guessing it’s unlikely all plugs will have failed and with my faulty diagnosis that there was power going to it it’s likely to be the distributor or the coil as you say. Is there just one coil for the whole engine and what does the condenser look like please? I’m used to more modern cars with a coil for each plug. Can I check earth points with a multimeter or is it just a case of checking them visually?

How can I check the points gap also please?

thanks again for the reply and apologies if I should a complete idiot! I’m pretty handy with more modern cars but this is all new to me!

 

It is clear from your questions and your own admission that you know little about these old cars and the art of getting them working. What you need is a competent mechanic to do the work for you. We can explain all sorts of things to try but unless you know what is working and what is not and what the next step is to try if the last step failed we are beating our heads against a brick wall.
The condenser is a small silver barrel shaped object with a wire attached in the distributor. When you buy new points you normally get a new condenser which you swap out. There is only one coil which has one main lead leading to the middle connector on top of the distributor and two smaller wires, one to earth and one to the side of the distributor.
The choke does not prime the engine it is a simple pull for on and push for off. I think the V8 is a mechanical choke where as if the 240 if fitted with SU carbs it could have an AED choke which is electrical.
As I said no disrespect to you but these old cars are very simple to work on if you know what you are doing but compared to a modern plug and play car they are miles apart. On a modern car if something does not work the computer tells you via the OBD port what to change. With the old Jaguar and Daimlers you have to finesse the parts to get them all working in sync. If one is out the rest don't work and they could all be out by a small amount so you have no chance of getting it right. If the timing is out and the mixture is weak plus you have a knackered coil you can replace everything and the engine will still not start. I would suggest you find a local mechanic who is willing to come to you and do the work. Better still contact your local Jaguar Enthusiast club or local classic car club as there will be loads of people all willing to come out to help. They will all want to come and view your dads collection and you might even find a buyer for a couple of the cars. If you were closer to me I would willingly come out and assist but not for a five hour round trip.
Try the following.
https://www.jecsw.co.uk/
https://www.swccc.net/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/330412134006291/

 

Get some books on maintaining old cars. Osprey produced a 'How to restore' series in the 1980s; there were editions on fuel systems, electrics, bodywork, etc. They turn up at Oxfam, Abebooks, and eBay. No doubt, there are more recent books that cover similar material. The Haynes and Jaguar factory manuals for the Mk2 are essential and very readable (unlike those for more modern cars). Again, the second hand book sellers can help. Amazon and Blackwell's may have reprints.

For most things, cars from pre-1970 or so are pretty straightforward and easy (even fun) to work on, but it's a different world from plugging a reader into an OBD port.
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thanks for the info and suggestions. I’ve tried numerous mobile mechanics, all supposedly used to working on the classics, but have found them to be unreliable and when they do find something wrong it’s a case of trial and error for them and then incurring another call out when I’ve got new parts. The fuel pump on the mk1 was changed and starter on the 250 for instance yet I’m not convinced either were at fault. There’s also the added complication of the car’s being stored at my late father’s house which is 45 mins away from me and I’m only able to get there on random times around life’s commitments.

I’ll have another stab at it next week and failing that get another load of new parts or try. Thanks again for the help.

 

I feel your pain KC. Finding a mechanic who can understand these cars is hard as most are now fitters. Part replacers. Nothing is actually repaired just replaced and a modern mechanic under the age of 40 has possibly never worked on a car with carburettors let alone points and a distributor.
Our problem is the fault could be anywhere. Carburettors, distributor, coil, timing, RB340 voltage regulator, wiring, earths, starter motor or starter solenoid. To detail what each item is, what could be wrong, how to fix it and what to do if that does not solve the problem, well we may as well write a book on the subject. On the other hand there are several people on this forum who if they stood in front of your car and heard it turn over, smelt for fuel, felt the heat of the coil, looked at your wiring and distributor they could have the car purring in minutes. (I am not that person as it might take me a couple of hours) but it is an acquired knowledge of many years experience with a set of spanners and a broken down car in front of them.
My advice would be to join your local classic car club or JEC then find some old boy who is retired and would love to come out and get the cars running for no more than a cup of tea and a hobnob biscuit.

 

Our local Jag club went through a similar situation with a deceased members collection of 9 cars. His widow asked for our assistance.
None had been started for over 2 years since his demise. They ranged from MK5 through to E type and X300
About 8 geriatric members arrived and we steadily attacked the cars.
With our combined knowledge we finally had all cars running after about 3 hours.
Our reward was a slice of banana cake and a cup of coffee.
I endorse CASS'S remarks about seeking local jag club members assistance.
One "come on" would be to give the club members first access to possible sales of the cars.

 

Thanks for the reply guys. There’s some good news, the 250 purred to life yesterday after an hour cleaning points, checking connections and with some easy start! I was over the moon!

The mk1 didn’t have as much luck. There’s power going to the coil but unsure if any is coming out. I’ve bought a new coil and distributor cap and planning on running a continuity test on all the leads to make sure they’re ok. Hopefully that will be enough to get her going!

thanks again for all your help