Okay guys,

I'm new here and still looking for love :-)...I posted a question about removing the starter from my 01 s type and after 28 views...crickets. Good news I got it! Starter rebuilt and reinstalled today. (I will post the specifics for others on this jaguar mystery. Seriously crazy).

However, car still won't start. Starter turning fly wheel but no "ignition" feels like no compression.

Anyway, details...
Battery brand new, coil fuse good, theft system off, all gauges etc working, not sure on exact pressure at fuel rail, but fuel pumps making noise, disconnected fuel filter on engine side and fuel pumping out liberally, assuming pumps and filter good.

I have looked everywhere and believe this could be "Bore Wash". Seems to exhibits such symptoms.

So here is my dumb question.... What do I do??? I know....Newbie!

I have read a ton of conflicting comments. Crank 15 sec 30 times, 30 sec 15 times (don't want to kill my new starter!). Oil in cylindars, No oil needed just crank. Gas pedal to the floor to empty fuel...seems like that would add fuel... And on and on.

Sorry to be so picky, but if I do it wrong I will continue to look for different diagnosis having missed the mark :-). I want to do it right so I can fix it or truly eliminate this as the problem.

Help! Can some one give me exact instructions (for dummies) to cure bore wash in an 01 s type.

Thanks for enduring my ramblings!

 

One question. Do you ever rev the engine and then immediately shut it off? If you have done this with a Jag, you can flood the spark plugs. Then it won't fire until the gas that has condensed in the cylinders (and on the plugs) has evaporated. Since it is cold now, fat chance of it firing until you do something to the plugs. I know it is a pain, but pulling the plugs and burning them will assure you have either resolved the problem or eliminated the possibility that the plugs are causing a problem. Cheers

 

Gas pedal to the floor is known as WOT (wide open throttle) and on many modern cars the computer (PCM) takes it to mean "add no fuel" when cranking.

So all those basically do the same thing: pump air through without fuel. Idea is to clear any fuel out and, as oil leaks around various parts, to relubricate and improve the sealing that the bore wash reduced. (Petrol is quite a good cleaner if you want to get oil off anything but does have some negative issues LOL)

The argument for pulling the plugs is OK (but the above cranking will work) but more useful if you also then add a little oil to the cylinders. Not much.

This is a known - uncommon - 4.0 issue.

It's not the plugs, generally, it's the lack of compression due to the oil that was washed off by the unburnt fuel.

 

Eureka!! It worked. Okay for those of you wondering if this could be your starting problem, I would have never guessed and it's cheap to find out.

It does take patience though. I had nothing but the starter motor sound at first. No compression at all. I just cranked as long as I dared. First with the pedal full down to empty fuel and then with nothing. Had to do that a few times (press the pedal full down) before finally started.

Took about 15 times before I got it to go. It is very deceiving because it sound and feels like the engine is just gone. No ignition at all.

Anyway, I hope this helps some one else!

Unfortunately, I still have a long way to go before I have her back to driving, but at least she's running!!

Thanks

 

What are the long term effects of bore wash? If the car starts what next, does anything else need to be done? What is the chance of it happening again?

 

Once it's running again I think your good.
It can always happen again, these cars seem to be prone to it if they are started and then stopped again fairly quickly.

 

This is a little something to read and I will also add the no start information you were looking for that JagV8 gave you.

Jaguar Nikasil Engine Blocks
Jaguar Nikasil & Sulfur
Nikasil No Start Cylinder Washing

I hope this help!

 

Great to hear it's running!

If only all "fixes" were so easy (though scary).

I think it can happen with non-Nikasil as well. Just something about the 4.0 engine geometry or something. Basically, if you do a very brief start-and-stop when engine cold, you're taking a smallish risk each time and may get unlucky.

I suppose if the petrol's washed away oil that is intended to be there then as you crank there must be some wear that wouldn't normally occur. But I never heard of such wear leading to engine failure so I wouldn't lose sleep over it unless it keeps happening.

 

Thanks very much JagV8. It's a double eureka from me. Took all the plugs out and made a tube with a right angle micro irrigation elbow snipped off to fit in the plug hole. This was so I could get oil to the highest part of the piston. Fitted it to the oil can and two and a half pumps(about a teaspoon full) into each cylinder. Replaced plugs,coils and covers and did 6 WOT 20-25 sec each. Seventh no throttle, started in half a second.
How long it will go for without it happening again is scary.
Anyway, I takes me hat off to this 'ere forum and all the dedicated folk on it.

 

Good way to get oil in!

Maybe a way to attempt an estimate is to think how many times you've done the sort of thing that led to the problem, over what time period, before it happened. (Sample size of problem = one, so this will be an awful estimate!)

 

Hello,

Thought I'd share a recent experience of my own with bore wash on my 05 4.2L in case it helps others (I had only seen references to earlier 4.0 cars, but the same thing happened to me).

I had pulled my car out of the garage so I could do something in the garage. After about 3 hours I pulled the car back in and shut it off (it was around 20-30 deg F outside). The next morning I went to start it and it fired for an instant and then made a very loud clunk/bang noise and died. The noise sounded absolutely AWFUL... I really thought I had thrown a rod or had some other catastrophic damage occur... it sounded that bad (and also something smelled burnt and a brief whiff of smoke could be seen coming from the passenger side of the engine bay). When trying to re-start it, it seemed to crank much slower than normal, again, seemed to indicate something very serious had happened.

I started doing a bit of research and saw a post on a UK forum where someone had a similar thing happen and also had the "clunk"... turned out to be bore wash for him but he still couldn't determine what the clunk was. A bit more research and I was thinking it may be the same thing, but some things didn't add up:
Case for bore wash
- happened after running the car briefly after being in a cold environment
- was running fine when last run

Case against bore wash
- heard a loud "clunk" with burnt smell and smoke
- seemed to crank harder when trying to re-start (thought it would crank easier if no/low compression)
- had not heard of cases of this with later 4.2L cars, usually earlier 4.0L models

Anyway... I figured it wouldn't hurt anything to try the 5-10 sec crank thing several times as noted in other posts... and what do you know, it worked! Car ran a little rough for a few minutes but smoothed out and ran just fine.

Hope this helps someone else in the future.

 

Yours is the first 4.2 where I've heard of it.... hard luck!!!

 

I did read this and was wondering if it was cylinder washing or flooding. Most cylinder washings the engine when attempting to start will spin faster without compression lags. I think not knowing all the facts it may have been a flooding issue. Like JagV8 this is the first 4.2 with cylinder washing issue that I have heard of. That is not to say it never happened.

 

Yep... I suppose it could be flooding. Seems both would display similar symptoms. It still would not start after sitting approx. 36 hours after the original incident. Only after I did the repetitive crank 5 sec, wait, crank 5 sec, wait several times did it come to life. I wonder if it was just flooded if it would've started the first time after 36 hours... not sure.

I can say that I've had other times where I've driven a short distance, turned the car off for 5 min. and then had some trouble starting it again. Cranked normal those times and it would start after a few tries... I figured those were flooding incidents, but I'm not really sure.

 

For what it’s worth when I start either of my cars I do not touch the accelerator until it is running. See what you are doing when you start it again.

 

Nope, I never touch the accelerator when I start ANY fuel injected car.

 

See if it happens again. Then, if it spins very fast it's low compression. Otherwise it's probably partially flooded and the foot to floor (WOT) trick should clear it fairly quickly.