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MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

rear end and brake work

 
  #21  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:47 AM
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I knew there would be more if I only looked. Shims etc. are ordered
 
  #22  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:30 PM
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As of today I have this much done. I also want to change the trans rear seal and crawled under there to get going at it. Immediately I noticed an active leak at the left lower rear from a set screw. I touched it-no more- and the end of the stud and it's lock nut Fell Off. Oy! Can anyone say what it does? Can I pull it out and replace without setting hordes of demons loose in my transmission? It's an auto trans I believe to be a BW 35, but my vin is 77903 so I am not sure. I will be doing research this evening...
 
Attached Thumbnails rear end and brake work-photo986.jpg  
  #23  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:02 AM
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Visual looking at the Actual item confirms it is a DG trans and not a BW. Over the rear seal it has T8 20-7051 embossed onto the case, Below that an oval with something illegible which may say "WALLEY" and below that a "3" stamped. I wonder then, they the vin ends in BW, unless they were only using that to suggest "any auto trans onhand at the time." Any way the screw/stud that broke off seems to be the kick down adjuster. Can I safely replace this without fear of consequent damage? I realize that it will then require later adjustment.
 
  #24  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:34 AM
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Your chassis number should in theory have the DG box, not sure why it has BW after the chassis number, the BW should indicate the box fitted, but it was not fitted until 1967 I believe.

If the set screw that has broken off is in fact the kick down adjuster, it should be a 1/4" by 1 1/2" set screw(in this case a fully threaded stud) with a domed nut, lock nut, and copper washer, providing you can remove the bit that's left in the casing you can change this without a problem, obviously adjustment will be required.
 
  #25  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TilleyJon View Post
Your chassis number should in theory have the DG box, not sure why it has BW after the chassis number, the BW should indicate the box fitted, but it was not fitted until 1967 I believe.

If the set screw that has broken off is in fact the kick down adjuster, it should be a 1/4" by 1 1/2" set screw(in this case a fully threaded stud) with a domed nut, lock nut, and copper washer, providing you can remove the bit that's left in the casing you can change this without a problem, obviously adjustment will be required.
All of the MK2 autos have BW after the chassis number, mines 1959 and it has it. This is because the DG gearbox is a Borg Warner unit, just an earlier one that the later BW35 unit.

The BW35 is a much better box, the DG is ok but very agricultural and leaks oil no matter what you do. Parts are available from G Whitehouse Autos in the UK.

I do have the original factory manual for this gearbox so if you need to see any parts of it let me know and I can send pictures of the relevant pages.
 
  #26  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:52 PM
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I found a picture of the oval plate on the internet and have attached it to give you an idea of what yours might say.

I was told when I had my first 1960's S-Type with this gearbox that the these were fitted to the American Chequer Cabs in the 1950's, they are effective a 2 speed gearbox with a direct drive to provide a top (3rd) gear.
 
Attached Thumbnails rear end and brake work-bw_dg_250_m_id_tag.jpg  

Last edited by Homersimpson; 12-28-2017 at 02:54 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2017, 05:18 PM
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Wow! All excellent info. If mine had that oval plate it is long gone. I did not know DG was Detroit Gear. I assumed DG250 just meant the Daimler car model - which of course makes very little sense... Thanks all. I found a rear seal for it at a NAPA store in South Bend And went and got that today, I will try to get a stud at my hardware store tomorrow.
 
  #28  
Old 12-29-2017, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Homersimpson View Post
All of the MK2 autos have BW after the chassis number, mines 1959 and it has it. This is because the DG gearbox is a Borg Warner unit, just an earlier one that the later BW35 unit.

The BW35 is a much better box, the DG is ok but very agricultural and leaks oil no matter what you do. Parts are available from G Whitehouse Autos in the UK.

I do have the original factory manual for this gearbox so if you need to see any parts of it let me know and I can send pictures of the relevant pages.
Duh ! of course, thanks Homer I had a dumb moment (Again !!)
 
  #29  
Old 12-29-2017, 08:49 AM
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Here is the location of my "oval recess." It looks like yours is on the side rather than the rear. Mine also does not have any holes where rivets may have been. On closer inspection mine seems to say "qualla..." something something something. Not sure what that might mean. Thanks again for input!
 
Attached Thumbnails rear end and brake work-img_0783.jpg  
  #30  
Old 12-29-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jerry_hoback View Post
Here is the location of my "oval recess." It looks like yours is on the side rather than the rear. Mine also does not have any holes where rivets may have been. On closer inspection mine seems to say "qualla..." something something something. Not sure what that might mean. Thanks again for input!
Hi,

The oval plate is on the side but may be missing, its much larger than the casting logo on your picture (maybe 50-75mm across or more), it may be hard to see it with the box in the car.

The casting in your picture houses the governor and kick down linkage, this can be removed for repair with the gearbox in the car but its a little bit of a fiddle. You can in fact remove the entire gearbox without taking out the engine but you have to leave the bell housing and torque converter in situ. Refitting is a bit hit and miss as you need to mate the input shaft (which has three splines) into the torque converter without damaging the seal. I've done it twice without issue but may have just been lucky.
 
  #31  
Old 12-29-2017, 06:31 PM
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Thanks Homer, Its a subject I was working up the nerve to ask about. I got under there today with my "actual, real, true to life" seal puller tool and only managed to rip the seal to shreds. I got to where i could see the back side of the seal and it Seems to have a Flange on the back side which appears to be sandwiched between the outer housing and some other inner part. My replacement seal (and all the pics I can find online) is a simple seal. No flange, just the rubber and its face and rim. The sad and Highly annoying part is, I only wanted to change the seal because I was There. It did not seem to be leaking But replacement was easy to get and I have the "proper" tool. Apparently I have overstepped. Ill PM you my email.... Thanks again.
 
  #32  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:06 AM
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When changing this rear seal, it looks like I will need to disassemble the anti creep valve thing too. What is the consensus on deleting it when installing my new brake lines? I don't see a listing for a replacement (if I need one).
 
  #33  
Old 02-04-2018, 10:13 AM
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I have reassembled the rear of the trans., and got that area as far as the driveshaft installed. Now I'm at the fulcrum shafts. I want to replace outer bearings on one side so I was trolling ebay for them. I see one seller has the bearings (03062) and more modern seals #SKF11124 listed as a set with the application being for 92-93 xj6. Its the same bearing but I am wondering if anyone has used this seal in place of the felt and container set up that the parts books call for. I could got out and measure mine but its cold outside and my computer is so snuggly warm! mmmmmm. BTW The price on that listing is crazy (to me)- not buying That. Thank you for reading, I yield the podium.
 
  #34  
Old 02-04-2018, 12:58 PM
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I pried myself up and came out to measure. I had been hoping to use bearings out of a hub which i have had in my trove of xj40 parts. It seems that the hub itself is a newer one (96ish) with different bearings. Not only that but theyre junk anyway with rusty slime instead of grease. Guh. So, the question remains then, has anyone tried using the seal 11124 instead of the felt and container set-up originally used?
I
 

Last edited by jerry_hoback; 02-04-2018 at 01:53 PM.
  #35  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:54 PM
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the DG250 was also used in 1950's Studebakers, it is not a bad transmission for being an early succesful attempt at an automatic. My S type still has it and it doesn't drive bad at all, quite smooth if you ask me for a stone-age neandarthal transmission.
 
  #36  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:44 AM
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I am trying to use the transmission as a sort of "keystone" for this whole project. It did work well, and beyond a fluid flush I don't plan to mess with it. Hopefully the motor will remain useable as well......
 
  #37  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:56 PM
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And so. We arrive at the next Ignorant question.... I am refitting the outer fulcrum shafts with the kit available from SNGBarrats which includes bearings, shims, spacers, and the old style felt seal packings. My question is how do I treat these felts? I cant see installing them dry, as is. I am imagining soaking in oil, or greasing them? neither seems particularly useful though. Quizzically, Jerry
 
  #38  
Old 03-20-2018, 01:49 AM
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Felt oil seals should generally be installed dry as they will swell a little when wet, they can be a swine to get in though ! Coat the inside with a little oil after installation and before you insert the fulcrum shafts.
 
  #39  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:50 AM
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I'm not sure where these felt seals are located, but if the one side is exposed to the element's, then see if there is a modern oil seal alternative.

The English and their felt seals _ Bah !

All they do is absorb water and dirt and make things rusty.

They keep wicking the oil out of what ever they are supposed to seal, so if you don't keep topping up, they dry out.
It's when they dry out and they start absorbing water is when things really go down the toilet.
 

Last edited by JeffR1; 03-20-2018 at 09:53 AM.
  #40  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:55 AM
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I agree. Removing the old ones I am seeing rust inside the tin cup things. But at the same time, oil or grease would attract more dirt.... i suppose that just a smear on the inner makes the most sense. It won't be a primary use car, and any rain it is in will certainly be accidental.. thanks for your input guys!
 

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