me, I totally didn’t know to save the order they came off the head (only the valve order was preserved)

so that may well explain why

 

#1 at TDC on what I believe is the compression stroke (balanced a wine cork on the spark plug hole, 1st TDC it was present, 2nd TDC it had fell off)

 

And the valve timing is off….

 

That's number six cylinder and the exhaust valve. Not sure if your valve timing is off. Put the Distributer back in and see which cylinder the rotor is pointing at.

 

aware I’m looking at #6 but more importantly I’m not looking at the timing mark on the cam…
its 180°

and the rotor is pointing at the passenger turn signal lamp

but #1 is TDC and blew my cork over

 

That looks correct, #1 at TDC on compression stroke and #6 TDC on exhaust stroke. With distributor back on and cap off, rotor should point to # 1 HT lead.
It sounds like you have it pointing to #6 HT lead???
Rgds
David
I have attached a worksheet if you have to do valve shim adjustments. make a second copy the use the XL sheet with your clearance and shim numbers.

 

that seems to be where I’m at..

thanks for the spreadsheet, I’ll take a look at that when I’ve calmed down a little

I didn’t rebuild the block - came like that

 

While you are thinking where to start, take a break and look at clearance of #5 intake valve (my worksheet is for later 4.2 engine, your engine clearances would be Inlet: 0.004 inches, Exhaust: 0.006 inches.)

Has distributor been worked on recently? the drive dog can be installed 180* out, and your engine could be right. If distributor is ruled out, then there is quick fix (move HT leads 180* on distributor cap per diagram).

To get distributor gearing in sync with engine:

• Remove breather cover on front timing case and loosen upper timing chain slightly. (with #1cyl at TDC)

https://mossmotors.com/jd-2b-timing-chain-adjuster-tool

• With both cam covers off, Remove the four bolts (safety wired/tab) on each camshaft flange holding the camshaft to the sprocket on timing chain. (use caution as not to drop bolts into timing case)
• Loosen cam bearing cap nuts all the way (few turns at a time to keep cam shaft from binding) The valve springs will lift the camshaft and the valves will all be closed.
• Turn engine CW 360* (using nut on crankshaft) back to TDC mark. (distributor gearing will move 180*) ( cams will not move)
• ( if you have sorted #5 intake valve issue), put every thing back together.
• Squirt engine oil into cam bearing area and tighten cam bearing cap nuts a few turns at a time until final torque (per manual)
• Now the Camshafts can be re-bolted to the sprockets and torqued, (followed by safety wire or safety tabs) Once you get two bolts per camshaft tightened, you can turn engine to expose holes for 3rd and 4th bolt thru sprocket into camshaft flange.
• Re-tighten upper chain tensioner. Reinstall breather cap and cam covers.

Rgds
David

 

It seems to me that your distributor has, maybe, been crammed in 180 degrees out, meaning you need to remove it and re-install half a turn foiwards into its correct D socket. If it's installed correctly in its D then the leads just need refitting in their correct places in the cap - No 1 rear cylinder in the socket nearest that cylinder, where the rotar arm is pointing. The rest follow round in the order of 1 5 3 6 2 4 in an anti-clock direction.

I have a Triumph TR5 car, and have worked on four cylinder Triumphs over the years, so I know that they fire differently to Jaguars. They're are numbered from the front and your Spitfire fires, I think, 1 3 4 2. I also have hands like bunches of bananas.

Ray

 

Thanks Ray,

Not sure if its possible to install the Dizzy 180 deg out - as the slot is off center, but i will "try" and report back.

For now, i am so confused - lots of great advice but all coming at once is a little like drinking from the fire hose.

I didnt sleep at all last night - how can the valve timing be out - if #1 compression stroke is controlled by the valves - then the timing must be correct surely - #1 at TDC and the slot on the distributor drive looks like this:


So the issue is my distributor? but then how? the central core is a solid rod of steel with machine cut slots for the rotor cap and the dog tooth? - so is the distributor off of the wrong car entirely? was in a box of spares (spares for many cars, not just this one).

Help appreciated.

 

Try checking the position with #6 at top dead center. If it lines up like the drawing then you're good. If the slot is above the center, then you're 180 out.

 

#1 and #6 will both be TDC no? (1 on compression and 6 on exhaust?) in this photo #1 is TDC on what I believe to be the compression stroke (blew over my wine cork) and you can see the lobe for #6 depressing the exhaust valve?

 

Just looked at the manual again. To get timing correct, #6 has to be TDC and the distributer rotor pointed toward the opposite side of the distributer toward #1.

I'm betting that your problem hopefully will be something simple and overlooked. I pulled My distributer recently to fix a leak since the rubber seal on it had gone hard and brittle. While it was out I thought I clean up the inside and when I put it back in, the car wouldn't start. Found that one of the plastic isolators for the points had fallen off and was on the garage floor. Points were shorting out because of it.

 

What page number? Ill go re-read (and #6 on compression or exhaust?)

 

I have an S Type manual so the pages may be different. Mine is page B69 for valve timing. #6 has to be on compression stroke. Also look at the section for refitting the cylinder head. Page B46 in my book

 

OK, so opposite of how its sitting right now - that means my timing is correct, but then the small moon would be on top and the big moon would be at the bottom (but my rotor arm would point at the correct cylinder) - so am i out 180 degrees still?

 

Try a static timing check. It's on page P10 in my book. If it fails that then I believe you're 180 degrees out

 

"I didnt sleep at all last night - how can the valve timing be out - if #1 compression stroke is controlled by the valves - then the timing must be correct surely - #1 at (on Compression stroke) TDC and the slot on the distributor drive looks like this:"

I think this picture is correct when #6 is on compression stroke TDC, and #1 is on Exhaust stoke TDC .... The Valve timing is right, The engine gearing to distributor is out. Simple to prove, move HT leads 180* on distributor cap and start... was the clearance correct on #5 intake valve ?
Rgds
David

 

I know the manual wants the rotor to point towards the engine as No.1, but in the end, if it's pointing away from the engine, that will work too.
As long as the firing order is followed (1 5 3 6 2 4) and that the direction of the rotor is followed; and in this case, it's counter clockwise.

 

Good Catch Jeff... The diagram on my post #17 is for CW Distributor rotation... Most in Lucas Data Base are CCW for jaguars, but did find a few listed as CW.

I looked at the Lucas Data Base and found a listing for 1960 Mark 11 3.8L distributors that had CW distributor rotation??? ""1960 Jaguar 3.4 and 3.8 Ltr Mk 2 with paper air cleaner .....40665A/B..... DMBZ6…..CW "

To confirm this Distributor's direction of rotation: Check HT lead from #1 plug to Cap, then Check #5 HT lead in cap is it CW or CCW from #1, or better; look at rotor position (cap off) and turn engine CW looking aft 90* to see which way rotor is turning. This is not as simple as I initially thought. Once direction of rotation is confirmed install HT leads in accordance with (1 5 3 6 2 4) firing order.

If you can read Distributor model numbers I will check data base for specifications.
Rgds
David