Tie Rod Pin and Bush Assembly Options

Here are the options I see for replacing this item on my MK2 with manual steering which will be changed form standard ratio box to a quicker ratio box (17.6:1 as opposed to 20:1)

See my recent post on that box conversion. We want to replace our no doubt original pins from 1960. Since we are going to a quicker steering, we believe we should choose the pin that moves with the least resistance..

The item in question is number 2 from the Moss catalog page on the following link. Note there are other vendors and I have no affiliation with any of them. I choose to display Moss because it does have the various options listed.

https://mossmotors.com/jes-9282-stee...-420-420g-mk-x

Option 1 - standard pin. Advantage cost and rubber isolation, disadvantage- added resistance when turning

Option 2 - the upgraded pin Advantage suppose swivels much easier. disadvantage- the cost

Option 3 - polyurethane bushings. With this kit, the original center bush is re-used but polyurethane bushings take the place of the original rubber and outer sleeves. This allows the various parts to pivot freely without friction, so the steering will be a bit lighter. This seems like a really good option for me and it is cheap. Also easy installation. I already have removed the existing pins and sleeve from spare center tie rod end/drag link assemblies.
What are the disadvantages to these?. Anyone have fitted these?

Option 4 - Install custom brass sleeve bushing or maybe even ball bearings. Since we have the pins removed, why could not bushings or bearing be fitted. There are numerous sizes available form McMaster-Carr. Has anyone done this?

So what is the best option for our application? I have searched all over the web and people seem to like the upgraded pin. But can not find operating experience with the poly bushings.

Thanks

jjsandsms

 

Others can comment on many of your questions. I will comment on 2 items from experience.

1) Polyurethane bushings squeak if dust is present. (you can tell where I come from)
2) Only use the upgraded pin. The standard ones today are rubbish.

 

Barratts P/N 133101U

 

I had the Upgraded Pins fitted but had to take the assembly to a machine shop because they had to be pressed on, certainly not a d.i.y. job unless you have a 2-ton press.

Result? I noticed no difference. Zero, Nada.

 

In our club it's a matter of life between the 2 pins where people use their cars a lot more than I do. Their dimensions should be identical.

 

Yes I had been advised the standard pins are not the way to go and the upgraded ones are.

But I am curious about the poly bushings.


I have burned off the old rubber and pressed out the sleeves. The pins have dia of ~ 5/8" The bore in the mating piece is almost exactly 1 inch.

So it seems to me the Poly might be the best path for me. But would like to get some feedback. I live in FL so not too dusty by the coast.

Finally wondering if something like this might work instead of poly, but would be no isolation as would be metal on metal. Are many many sizes so might have to custom fit.

https://www.mcmaster.com/6391K929/

Thanks
jjsandsms

 

I suspect that not all polyurethane bushes are equal.
I have some in my S3 XJ6 and they have been there for over a decade. They were made in Australia.

However, at a local Jaguar repair shop I was shown a MK2 which had been imported from England by the migrating owner.
It had the front end rebuilt in England about 6 years ago and the poly bushes used were decaying badly ie falling to bits.
The owner has asked the shop to rebuild the front end using original type rubber bushes.

Perhaps there are different formulas used to manufacture these bushes.?

 

Ditto ~ not all polyurethane bushes are equal. Poly anything varies.

 

There seem to be quite a number of producers of poly bushes in the UK. I think the same goes for the US. Someone on JagLovers has done a lot of testing of poly and rubber suspension components, mainly looking at stiffness. There seems to be a surprising variability in performance even in parts from respected Jaguar suppliers.

One motivation for going to poly is greater stiffness than rubber, yet in some cases the poly version turns out to be more flexible than the original rubber ones that Jaguar fitted. The situation with rubber isn't much better: the 'upgraded' rubber component has about the same stiffness as Jaguar's original, while that sold as standard is more flexible. With rubber, the advice is buy the upgrade or one with Matalastik written on it.

It's the usual situation with parts for old cars: quality is as much what someone can get away with as delivering a good product. With poly and rubber, it's not easy for the buyer to judge from appearance. My view is to consider what do I need and what difference will it make? What experience do others have especially people involved in motor sport where good performance is a priority?

Regarding the squeaks from poly, I've seen a few suggestions. The most flexible poly are made to flex in shear like rubber though that might mean they are more compressible than rubber. Several poly suppliers provide their application specific grease that is supposed to work. One fitter of poly bushes insists on wrapping the pin with PTFE tape to avoid noises.

 

Yes Peter ~ We make a Potassium Borate Grease that shuts them up.

 

I have received the poly bushings (got from Moss). I will install these along with the quick ratio box and matching idle arm once everything is cleaned up and new seals in the box.

The poly bushings seem like an inexpensive alternative to the updated pin assemblies. The potential squeal issue seems like it can be addressed. The only issue that may arise is possible vertical slop.

Once the steering and idler arms are tightened we will see if there is any possible up and down movement of the pin. A possible spacer might be required. I will trial fit to determine if there will be an issue. Hopefully the thickness of the bushing flange is set to eliminate any movement.

Here are the bushings, they fit quite well, tight and they are black in color!

jjsandsms

 

Are they pressed into the outer housing, or do they rotate on "that housing as well as the pin ?
Did it they come with any special grease ?

With the rubber bushings, you had to have the car on the ground with the wheels pointing straight ahead, before you tightened down the "tapers".
This prevented loading the rubber bushings one way or the other, with the ploy bushings you don't have to worry about this, but the poly bushing don't help to bring the steering back to centre.
It's now solely left up to the steering geometry to keep the car tracking forward.
If I'm seeing all this correctly.

 

Yes did come with the typical white (silicon) grease. Bushings not pressed in. I did fit one of them and it seems that the pin and/or the bushing can rotate. Not sure if I am ok with that. I would think that it should just be the pin. Anyone got an opinion on this? I suppose it could be possible to epoxy (glue) in the bushings.

Thanks

jjsandsms

 

I would think that you would not want the bushings rotating in the housing, that would cause wear on the housing _ wouldn't it ?
Or perhaps once the taper is fuller seated, that will keep the bushings tight, and keep them from turning; that would make sense.

 

Yes I agree, not sure want the bushing to turn, just the pin.

BUT, I just test assembled the idler arm side with a non locking nut for the bench test. Once tight on the taper, the pin does indeed do the turning. However, the idler arm side bushing does turn a few degrees each way, but does not turn the same amount as the pin. The other side bushing does not appear to be turning.

There is some resistance to turn by hand but not really that bad.

As the photos show the bushing flanges do get squeezed a bit when tighten the taper.

So I guess these can work, certainly cheap enough. Still wondering if using some sort of glue to fix the bushings is the way to go?

Thanks,

jjsandsms

 

Silicon grease is pretty hopeless life wise.

 

Can someone pass on a recommendation for the previously mentioned Potassium Borate Grease available in small quantity in the states?

Thanks
jjsandsms

 

I do not advertise our company on here: Search Ultra Duty Grease EP NLGI 2 and all will become plain. Available in small packs.

 

By search I mean Google. Made in the USA.

 

Found it Thanks

jjsandsms