MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

What is a "real" 340 in the USA?

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Old Jun 14, 2015 | 07:32 AM
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Lightbulb What is a "real" 340 in the USA?

I own what I consider two real 340, both sold in late 1968 in Canada, confirmed by their Jaguar Heritage Certificates. Their serial number both start with "1J80.....".

In the USA, we see cars advertised as "340", as per the boot logo, but under the bonnet, the cams are not ribbed, the air filter is the large "pancake" and most obvious, the bumpers are the large ones. Seats are normally Ambla but hard to confirm from a picture. If the seller reveals the serial number, it is often one of a late series 3.4 L Mk2. Such 3.4L cars are although a rarity on their own in the USA as most Mk 2 sold were 3.8L.

Is it that the factory in the UK "badged" late 3.4 Mk2 as 340 when shipping them to North America, is it that the local dealers did it on their own to "renew" the year of the cars? Is there any formal documentation in the archives of Jaguar that could reveal what is the true story behind these obscure 340? Or archivists like Anders Ditlev Clausager that would have researched the matter and reveal the story?
 
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Old Jun 14, 2015 | 03:04 PM
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bumpers can be replaced easily, so MK-2 bumpers on a 340 don't mean anything. Many 340 boot emblems have been replaced with MK-2 emblems through the years.

are the cars Left Hand Drive?
 

Last edited by Jose; Jun 14, 2015 at 03:09 PM.
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Old Jun 14, 2015 | 03:40 PM
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It's very easy to swap-out 340 bumpers with those off a Mark 2. What I suspect Jaguar did for US cars, (indeed cars for any market), was use up the Mark 2 parts so some cars will be a bit of a mix'em-gather'em. I would certainly expect the ribbed cam covers, but there were probably a lot of engines still in stock in 1968 with polished covers and these would have been installed as they are, there would have been no swapping of covers just for the sake of it. A few 380s were made too !
 
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Old Jun 15, 2015 | 06:48 PM
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I have been looking for a LHD 340 equipped with a Borg Warner 35 auto transmission. Apparently they were not sold in the U.S. or Canada. There may have been some BW 35 both MK2 and 340 in LHD in europe. I understand the 340 cars in the U.S. were re-badged MK2's.

If you look at parts books you can see parts and vehicle numbers for genuine 340's.

I have secured factory drawings for the LHD hand control parts used on the 340. I will be replicating those parts to allow installation of a BW66 into my MK2. That is assuming the parts are the same or similar and can be used on a BW66 which is a derivative of the BW35.

Bob
 
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 06:32 AM
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Default 340 Auto and other comments

Bob,

There were 340 Automatic sold in Canada at least, I own one. One must although remember that the factory has made only 535 LHD Jaguar 340, both auto, manual or manual with O/D.

As for all the other comments about my original request for what is a "real" 340, it is obvious that one can convert back and forth 340-Mk2-340, but that is not the reason of my inquiry.

If 340 are sometimes considered "less desirable" than Mk2 in the USA, why then would one convert a Mk2 to 340? Thus my question about the Mk2 that are badged 340 in the USA: was it originally done by the factory or by the local dealers...may be instructed to do so by the factory....or not.

As a famous author would say: "That is the question"

Jagnaut
 
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 07:33 AM
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Yes but what I was referring to was a car with the aforementioned 340 features and a BW35 automatic. In the U.S. (canada?) Jaguar "converted" mk2's to 340's by replacing badging. Apparently they were repositioning the "MK2" in the marketplace. It had a lower cost. Possibly a way to move old inventory. So many "340's" were automatic and had the DG250 box. They would have the familiar intermediate speed hold switch. The BW35 equipped cars would not have that.

I am not attempting to convert a MK2 to a 340 but rather install a BW66 into my MK2. As the BW66 is related to the BW35 my assumption is the components used for the hand control will function with the BW66.

Bob
 
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 07:49 AM
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here's the data:

In June 1965 the Borg Warner Type 35 automatic box began to be fitted to the Mk2 Jaguar.

On 26 September 1967 Jaguar announced the 240 and 340 saloons.
The main visual difference was the new slimmer front and rear bumpers. Elsewhere, use was made of plastic technology in car manufacturing. Even the some of the wood trim was in fact Ambla plastic along with other cheaper materials such as the carpet. The 3.8-litre was dropped and now only the 2.4 and 3.4-litres were available. The Solex carburettors of the 2.4-litre engine were replaced by SUs on a new manifold for the 240.

September 1968 arrived and production of the 340 saloon ceased.

Production Numbers:
Jaguar 240 = 4430
Jaguar 340 = 2804
 
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Old Jun 16, 2015 | 10:41 AM
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Default Bw35 mk2

I believe the Damlier 250 used the BW35. I wonder if the LHD versions used the same hand control parts?

I have yet to find a LHD BW35 equipped 340 / MK2 in North America. If anyone has seen one or knows where one may be please let me know.

If the date of June 1965 for fitment of the BW35 is correct I would think I would have found one in the U.S.. It is possible that they used both the DG250 and the BW35 until late MK2 / 340 production.

It is merely academic. I will reproduce the parts I require that I cannot source.

Bob
 
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 08:48 AM
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Bob,

To the best of my knowledge- and from official Jaguar publications-, there were no DG transmissions fitted to any 340, as stated by Jose, even late Mk2 had the new improved Borg Warner 35. There were no Intermediate hold switch in any of these cars. I invite you to source an original parts manual ( edition J 34, published in March 1972). They often come about on eBay and repros are also available. Beware although: do not get an earlier version as it may lack these latest improvements.

As for Jose's comment about wood being replaced by Ambla, the seats were actually Ambla- on some very late Mk2 as well but the wood, althought reported being of a lighter colour, was actually identical to all Mk2.

Last, Jose is right about the number of 340 produced at 2804....of which only 535 LHD. That is why specific parts are scarce. I have learned from experience when trying to source a gas pedal assembly, which is different from a Mk 2.

To source parts, you may want to contact bits4brits via eBay. He may well be able to help you and is a great chap. He was a great source of parts for my last restoration ....of a 340 manual, which by the way is now available to a new owner, so I can have space for my next project
 
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 09:07 AM
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I need to add: Do not be mislead on the picture by the original British front plate. My 340 4 speed manual is a LHD, originally delivered in Montreal Canada. The British plate simply loooks good.
 
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 09:27 AM
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Default 340

I believe that U.S. "340" cars did use the DG250. This was because they were mostly rebadged MK2's. See The Mk2/340 Project - a footnote in Jaguar history.

This web site has many "340's" all auto cars have the DG250 transmission.

I have the model 35 service manual for 240 and 340 models. It is a reprint from JCNA.

In it is several drawings of the hand control gear selector and the kick down mechanism. Unfortunately they show RHD assemblies which do differ from the LHD parts. You do get an idea of what is required.

I do have the drawings for the unique parts, with the exception of the kick down assembly, but my problem is I do not have a drawing or photograph showing where these parts are attached. For example I have the drawing for the simple upper-cable abutment plate (C26238). I have not a clue where it attaches to the car.

I would greatly appreciate drawings or photographs of the gear selector installation on LHD 340's with BW35 automatic transmissions.

That is certainly easier said than done.

Bob
 
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 12:04 PM
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Jagnaut67: the information I provided comes from the following article:

Jaguar Mk2 : AROnline

if you are certain the wood in your 340 is not plastic Ambla, it may have been replaced by real wood from a MK-2, or the car may have been built in the crossover months from MK-2 to 340, where some MK-2 wood trim was left over and used in some 340. Anything is possible with Jaguars.
 
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 04:22 PM
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Vinyl / Ambla and Leathercloth / Vynide

All wooden dashes on Jaguars use real wood. 60s saloons had plywood formers with walnut veneer applied, and this was continued into the XJ saloons, where the dash panel is also plywood and veneer. When we get to the XJ40s the technique of veneering aluminium and steel had been developed, so on later saloons, whilst the veneer is still genuine, the substrate can be steel or aluminium, or even plastic ! As far as I know, Jaguar were never tempted by the look-alike "woods" used by other manufacturers.
 
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 10:39 PM
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I had the opportunity to see a 1966 MK2 at a garage near my place in Naples, Florida. And it had a BW35. I think that external differences are: 1) the nacelle over the steering column is different from the one on the older model (my car is a 1960 3.8 with the DG250), and the column shifter is on the right hand side (it's on the left for the DG250). The hold switch is not used with the BW35. In June 1965 a modified auto transmission unit was fitted (Part #C25615)according to Nigel Thorley in his restorer guide for Mk1/2.
According to him, In September 1966, Ambla uphostery was standard on all models and the picnic tables deleted. No change in wood trim. Foglamps were also deleted and the "F" light switch position was deleted. As the 340 started production in September 1967 you can have actually a Mk2 that has the interior look of a 340, but retain the Mk2 exterior features. That explains why you could have a downgraded Mk2 that seems to be a 340, but has the large bumpers, vynil seats and polished cam cover.
Hope this helps,
JP
 
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 10:56 PM
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Additional data:
The BW35 was fitted on all Mk2 3.4 from chassis number 181429, 3.8 from chassis 224738, all 340, 3.4S from chassis 1B26421 and 3.8S from chassis 1B80288.
It seems that the part manual has another reference number for the BW35: C26840.
JP
 
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Old Jun 19, 2015 | 03:21 PM
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Default bw35

JP

Did the 1966 BW35 equipped MK2 have left hand drive?

Do you know where the car is now?

I would be very interested in finding it provided it is LHD to photograph the hand control linkage and mechanism.

Thanks

Bob
 
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Old Jun 19, 2015 | 09:27 PM
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I saw the car in Naples in early 2014. And yes, it was LHD, dark blue with a black interior. It was at a shop on Davis for some kind of a front end problem at the time when my own car was being converted to a GM 700R4 from the original DG250. I believe it was local, but I did not get the registration and id not meet the owner. I was just curious about the nacelle differences with my own car. I think I have, in my spare part pile, a LHD steering column with a right hand selector. I bought it in an attempt to use it in my car (the left hand selector is a pain), but it did not work out on a 1960 model. I will dig it up and send you a picture if that can help.
You could ask someone in the forum with a chassis # >224738 and the BW suffix for information, or someone with an 3.4 or 3.8S.
JP
 

Last edited by JPG; Jun 19, 2015 at 09:35 PM.
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Old Jun 19, 2015 | 10:21 PM
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I would appreciate a photo. A sure way to ID the DG250 steering column is if the gear selector shaft runs the entire length of the column and ends at the bottom of the column with a small bend.

Do you remember the shop name? Telephone number?

Thanks

Bob
 
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Old Jun 20, 2015 | 11:19 AM
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Sorry, could not find it in the parts pile. I may have given it to someone or discarded it. In any case, I have attached the picture of the selector controls from the Mk2 part book, which is probably better than a picture. For the shop, I know where it is, about five miles from where I live. I will note the name and address when I swing by this week end.
JP
 
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Old Jun 20, 2015 | 05:01 PM
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I have that diagram and much more. FYI that is the RHD mechanism. Several of the LHD parts are very different.

As you can see that parts diagram does not show how or where they are attached to the car.

That is the primary reason I am looking for a LHD 340 with a BW35. I need to see how and where those parts attach.

I will contact the shop once you get me the name. Hopefully they will remember the car you have referenced and can put me in touch with the owner.

Thanks
Bob
 
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