Folks,

I just noticed a fairly large leak of transmission fluid from the rear of the transmission on the garage floor. By the output drive shaft, there is a electrical connector and some sort of bolt where it seems the fluid is leaking from. When I disconnect the electrical connector, there is fluid inside of the connector so I think the leak is from there.

Searching the forum, seems like someone else had an intermittant leak that required the transmission valve body electrical connector P/N# C2C39599 and Real_tech mentioned that its a part that seems to leak quite a bit and should be changed when changing the filter/oil.

Has anyone changed this before? According to JTIS, there is a locking device from the inside that should release the sleeve. Is this pretty easy to do (drawing was pretty bad)?


Thanks

 

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this problem. Wish I could offer some help but our 2005 S-Type 3.0's ZF doesn't leak (knocking on wood as hard as I can). Please keep us posted on what you learn and what action you take as a result. How many miles on your STR, and what fluid do you intend to put into your transmission?

 

Yah, sit tight for awhile, most DIY probably haven't tackled that, and I've only heard of it a few times on these forums. When a tech gets a chance to read your post, hopefully you'll be answered as to the degree of difficulty to do it yourself. Check with the dealer, you may be suprised at how much time it will take. Doesn't hurt.

good luck.

 

Quick update from some of the research that I have been doing.

Our transmission is a ZF6HP26 model used in the jaguar a 04 STR is 1068-101-0176 (last for digits are key to get the correct ZF parts).


Oil Pan/filter/gasket Jag #C2C38963 @ $234 for the dealer is ZF# 1068-298-033 for $134 (internet) to $155 in OC, CA.

Oil pan bolts #C2C 6726 @ $2.46 x 21 is ZF# 0736-101-486 @ $0.39

Sleeve #C2C 39599 @ $13.38 is ZF# 0501-216-272 @ $12.10

Jag fluid #C2C 8432 @ $59 is ZF# 5671-090-255 @ $35/liter or 5671-090-253 @ $20-30/liter. (need to 6-7 liter).

ZF website has plenty of US distributors - at least 8 or 9 within driving distance, prices vary quite a bit

As for the fluid, after looking on the web for a shell M1375.4 equalivent, came up with redline D4ATF (synth) ($12/qt) and the casto import multi-vehicle ($5/qt). It seems like the internet recommendation is the pentosin ATF1 ($14-16/qt) but it is closer to the older LT71141 spec used for the 5ZF but seems to be spec'ed for BMW for 6HP applicaitons.

IMHO, Castor may not be a synth so its out. Redline is synth but red in color so its out (claim to be both LT71141 and shell M1375.4). ATF1 has the proper color and claim to be only DexIII compatible but the BMW users and some jag users swear by this. My gut feel is the LT71141 will work but may not last 100kmiles. In terms of viscosity at 100C and 40C and the viscocity index, the redline D4ATF, Pentosine ATF1, Mobil synth, mobil ATF 3309, and castol is about the same so i think its mostly the quality of the base, additives, and the ZF or Jaguar tax.


With the ZF oil at $35/liter or $20/liter in bulk, its pretty close to the ATF1 at $16 so it may not be worth the risk. Bottom line, $660 in parts from the dealer, $280 for the lowest cost solution with ATF1, average of $305 with the ZF fluid in bulk if I change it 3x, and $413 with ZF in 1 liter bottle. Makes you wonder when you by the large barrel as a shop, the stuff must be pretty cheap and they price the 1 liter at a super high price so the factor dealers and transmission shops can charge more for it on your bill.

I'm off to get the parts and will decide if I want to spend an extra $166 today to save $324 in the future. No one around here including the dealers stock the bolts so I hope that the issues surrounding the bolts are limited to areas that are green or white in the winter and not brown. If I go for the 20 liter, if anyone in the SoCal area needs some ZF fluid...

 

Thanks for posting your research results. Let us know what fluid you decide to go with, where you purchased it, and what you wound up paying for it. I've looked all around the area where I live for someone other than the dealer who sells Shell M1375.4 mineral oil and thus far I've struck out. I even called Shell's US headquarters last winter looking for sources and was essentially told to go to my Jaguar dealer but there's no way I'm paying $55 per litre for that stuff at any dealership. I'd prefer to stay with the Shell product if and when I change the transmission fluid in our 2005 S-Type. The Hyundai Genesis uses the same ZF transmission as the S-Type, and I'm assuming that Hyundai also builds these cars using the Shell product in the ZF. So perhaps a Hyundai dealership will sell it for considerably less than a Jaguar or Mercedes dealership will....

I'm also curious as to why you believe you'll only need 6 to 7 litres. If I remember correctly, the capacity of this ZF is at least 10 litres....

Maybe I missed it elsewhere so I'll ask again - how many miles on your STR?

 

Jon,

If my research is correct, the shell fluid doesn't exist as a product from Shell but its a standard exclusive to ZF. I believe there was a press release from ZF and Shell so Shell may be the excusive supplier to ZF (as the lifeguard6 product) and the spec. exists so ZF can second source the fluid if necessary. At the end of the day, I get the impression that the Shell spec based on is dex III standard + synth. base + some special additive requirements.

Turns out, the ZF distributor didn't bother checking the part # and assumed the 20 l containter was lifeguard 6 and turns out it was lifeguard 5 (LT71141 compatible stuff). A quick call to to redline tech support confirmed that they tested D4ATF per shell spec, has a similar additive package but the the oil has a different but compatible base chemistry. So at this time, I have convinced myself that the D4ATM meets the Jag spec. and maybe the additives won't last 100k miles so I'll just change the oil again at 50K. (not clear to me if the extended life is part of or inaddition to the shell spec). So for $12/qt and available today, I went for the redline D4ATM in spite of the red color. With all the leaks I had so far, I'm going for the rainbow effect on my floor. So far, I am out about $250 for parts.

The Jag sells the fluid for $60/liter, the hyundai board members seemed not to happy their dealer wanted $75/liter so perhaps I should have checked the Bentley price.

I think most people believe that 6 qt is enough for a filter change so I bought one extra just incase. Typically, a pan drain doesn't get all of the fluid out as in a flush so there is a bit over 4 qts that won't drain out. I believe the total capacity is around 10.5 liters.

Off to cut a stub out of a 8mm allen wrench for the fill plug, got my IR temp meter ready to check the transmisison temp, the JTIS & ZF instructions printed out and about to start the repair. What a way to spend the day as a reward for crossing the 50kmile threshold!

Thanks to everyone on the board for previous posts regarding the oil and change instructions.

 

One more thing, here is the website of a ZF distributor that has the price
$137 for the oil pan and $30-40/qt of the ZF6 oil.

http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...arch_str=&pg=1


Another link to ZF distributor list - note that not all will sell to the consumer, some are wholesale only. Prices vary quite a bit from distributor to distributor.

http://www.tsgparts.net/index.php?p=usdealer

 

So you have no concerns that the 5 litres or so of the factory fill of Shell mineral oil that will remain in your transmission will be mixing with the 6 litres or so of the new Redline fluid that you will be adding? I think your risk factor of future transmission problems will inevitably increase if you do this. How much risk is impossible to determine, however, unless you can find other S-Type owners who have also done something similar....

I have a 1-litre bottle of the Shell product left over from when our S-Type was repaired from its August 3rd accident. The bottle came from the local Jaguar parts department. Since it wasn't needed for the repair process, I asked for it and the body shop gave it to me. It carries a Jaguar label (and no mention of ZF) and is called "Auto Transmission Mineral Oil". The Jaguar part number is C2C8432. The fluid is golden-colored and smells nothing like any other ATF I've ever used, and I attribute that smell to the mineral oil content....

 

Jon,

There is always some concern but the redline folks confirmed that it will mix ok and its hard to imagine two fluids meeting the same spec and not mixing.

If the data is right, redline line is a monograde polyol ester (group V). The other pure synthetic oil is PAO - polyalphaolefin (group IV).

Since mineral oil is derived from petrolum refining, mineral oil is used to make "semi-synthetic oil base" as group I, II, III but its not as uniform as the pure stuff (group IV & V). I believe Shell has a hydrocracked / hydroisomerized process to convert mineral oil into a group III oil (III is higher grade then I or II). Group III is typically mixed with group V and IV and sold as either a semi-synthetic or synthetic oil (only in the US).

So it would seem to suggest that group V and IV is mixed with mineral oil based stock in a variety of products so mixing should not be an issue.

It would seem that the Jaguar is labled as mineral oil instead of synthetic since it seems that only group III based oil can be sold as synthetic in the US.

It would also suggest a pure group V oil should be be better then a group III blend with group V/VI so the redline base may actually be more expensive then the shell "mineral oil base". So mixing of the oil base should not be an issue.

I also compiled a table of spec for viscosity at 40/100C, viscosity index, flash and pour point for the shell M1375.4, LT 71141, and synthetic dextron III based fluids and they are all pretty similar and I believe the varaition in operating temp between say california and denver would swamp the brand to brand variation at a given temp so it should be ok

The last issues come down to additives and testing/qual. From a qual perspective, the redline meets shell M1375.4 which meets Jaguars requirement. The only big unknown is the difference in additives and the lifetime of the fluid. (or how much the ZF oil exceeds the M1375.4 spec).

BTW, this redline and the other gear oils I have used from them has a very strong and distinct smell unlike any other oil. It lasts for a while if it gets on your hands so I will be double gloving it today. I'll let you know if the stuff that gets drained smells differently.


I tried to cover my base as best as I could with the information given from the manufacturers and from what others have posted. There are some concerns but I think I'll risk my transmission to the redline stuff. If not, I'll be asking the forum on how to swap out a transmission. Seriously, Would have bought the ZF oil if it was in stock but I think if it doesn't shift right, I'll just add more ZF oil to dilute the redline. Just wanted to get the work done during the time off.

 

Thanks for the additional details and good luck with the project. I hope it goes like clockwork with no surprises. Be sure to keep us posted on your results after days, weeks, and months go by. For a few of us, this ridiculously-expensive transmission fluid dilemma causes us to lose sleep at night. I never imagined that I might one day have to spend more than $600 just on transmission fluid alone. I sure hope our S-Type's fluid is indeed "lifetime". At those prices, it damn sure should be....

 

Several S Type R's have used Pentosin it is labeled as Shell M-1375.4 equivalent so I am not sure why there is any question if it is the correct fluid?
Look here:

http://tinyurl.com/lxr9kg

Good information about the ZF part numbers!! Another thing not well known is the ZF6HP comes with two different kinds of transmission pans. The Jaguar uses the plastic version but the steel one as used on some BMW's is a direct replacement. The plastic pan has an integrated filter so the entire unit must be replaced. This is my major complaint with most fluid change instructions. How can you can you change the fluid but leave the old filter in place? Does not make much sense to me?

I have attached two ZF documents on transmission oils. I also have two additional large ZF documents about the transmission itself but they are too large to upload? Maybe could put them in the FAQ?

I have attached the press release about Shell providing ZF with different fluids. This adds a bit of confusion because Jaguar has/had a world wide agreement with Castrol for all factory fill fluids.

Finally I have attached a very nice set of instructions on how to change the fluid/pan/filter. I am not sure why you are changing the transmission pan bolts? Is this recommended? I have never seen that?
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What color is the Pentosin fluid?

The reason I ask this question is that the ZF fluid used to factory-fill the older 5-speed ZF transmission is red in color and is NOT mineral oil-based.

But the ZF fluid used to factory-fill the newer 6-speed ZF transmission that the 2003-and-up S-Types use is golden in color and IS mineral oil-based.

I talked with a local ZF distributor today about this situation. He sells the red-colored ZF fluid for the 5-speed ZF transmission for about $34 per litre. But he cannot yet obtain the golden-colored ZF fluid for the 6-speed ZF transmission. He hopes that it will be released to him sometime in 2010. If an official U.S. ZF distributor can't even get the mineral oil-based fluid yet, that shows you to what extent this stuff is being held hostage by the car dealerships. They charge $55 to $60 per litre just because they can. It's corporate gouging, plain and simple, and it is not fair to the automotive customer base. By the way, all you Jag techs out there - this is certainly not your fault and you share no blame whatsoever in this matter, so don't take it personally.

The local ZF distributor stated at least twice that these two ZF fluids are NOT compatible and should not be mixed together. He also stated that it would be unwise to use the ZF fluid designed for the 5-speed transmission in the 6-speed transmission and vice-versa. I appreciate his honesty - knowing I have a 6-speed ZF in our S-Type, he said that he would not sell me the 5-speed fluid fully realizing that he has no other ATF to sell me in the event that I want to do a transmission drain-and-fill on our car.

So the controversy continues. If the Pentosin product is red in color, it is compatible with the 5-speed ZF fluid, but not the 6-speed ZF fluid. Proceed with caution....

 

Folks,
It seems that 6ZF26 from BMW and Jag calls out the shell 1375.4 spec and ZF makes the lifeguardfluid6 for (golden in color). The 5ZF?? from BMW and I believe Jag calls for the ESSO LT71141 spec which is the lifeguardfluid5. There is no published spec to see what the lifeguardfluid6 is actually and the datasheet just says contains ZE-TE-11 which come fluids list compatibilty too. There are some oils that list compatibilitiy with ZE-TE components. I believe with 81% market share, the umbrella spec is dextron III and all of the esso, shell, and other vendor spec fall under this umbrella. The different variations may have tighter spec, additional requirements, additional additives. The jaguar mineral oil is just a low cost but way of making a quasi-synthestic from mineral oil (read baby oil and petrolum jelly) that by the way, is done via a shell refinary. I assume it meets the shell spec that jaguar specs.

I think the color is like coolant these days and doesn't tell you too much. Like coolants, some different color coolants can mix and other of the same color will gel when mixed - so I think what's inside is more important. All ATF fluid is clear or golden in color. The red is a dye they add and doesn't say anything about what the base is. Mineral oil based quasi-synthetic is combined with the pure group IV or V all of the time so there shouldn't be any base incompatibility with mixing.

Redline D4 ATF meets both the shell and esso spec and its red and a group V based pure synthetic oil. Redline claims that they tested the fluid per shell 1375.4 and its compatible with the factory fluid inside from the tech that I talked to. Castol import multi-vehicle claims both compatiblity but its red and not a synth. Pentosin datasheet just claims dextron III and DC ATF+4. I believe its a synth and its golden in color. The website claim shell compatibility and lots of jag and bmw users have used this with no problem.

Personally, I wanted to get the car done before the holiday, 1st choice was lifeguardfluid6 (little risk, not too pricey). If I was going to order the fluid, I would have gone with pentosin ATF1 based on historical user data. Since the dealer didn't have it in stock, redline is the only synthetic that I found that claims to meet the shell spec (or jaguar spec). There are quite a number of fluids that claim the esso spec but not the shell spec (like mobile 1 atf). I think most of these fluids would likely meet the spec but hasn't bother to test against it yet. Doesn't seem like too many people made the same choice as I did. I am not suggesting that anyone else should make the same choice. So far, the shifts on the car are much faster smoother then before so its a big difference for the better. I did have a small leak so I added about 1/2 to 1/3 qt more in then out so it may have contributed to the "feel". I'll keep you all posted if I need a new transmission soon.

The last for digits of the ZF transmission will let you know what pan goes with what transmission. I think Audi uses the steel pan, BMW the plastic (don't know if they use the metal one too). I think there is only two designs - steel or plastic so you should be able to use the plastic one from any car manufacturer - bmw, jaguar, landrover, etc. or just by it from ZF.

I think there were a few replys from the jaguar techs that suggested the bolts are a PITA to remove and that the newer versions are torx 40 vs torx 27. Most sets have a torx 25 or 30 and even with the right bit, its hard to break the bolts free. I have the old bolts and at $2.5 x 21 its pretty expensive but though ZF, it was $0.39 x 21 which its worth it for next time. I'll just replace the bolts when they arrive before it seizes up again. So, just to clarify, if you have the torx 27, you should consider replacing the bolts with the new ones.

 

I sincerely hope that your chosen fluid runs like a champ for many years and that you never have to do this again. But be aware that the ZF website has prominent multiple warnings which essentially state "Use only the fluid designed and listed here for your particular ZF transmission - any other fluid could lead to severe transmission failure!" Maybe that's nothing but a scary marketing tool that ZF uses to sell more fluid, I honestly don't know....

But remembering that WhiteSTR (Eric) here on this forum had to replace his admittedly self-abused STR transmission earlier this year to the tune of more than $8,000 (I think his extended warranty covered everything except for the cost of the new ZF fluid), that's a huge chunk of change in my book to risk by pouring something other than the correct ZF fluid into the newly rebuilt transmission....

As I said earlier, do your own research and proceed with caution....

 

Great job!! Get us informed on how you like the Redline D4 ATF. I am a big Redline fan and have used their synthetic ATF for a number of years in other cars with good results. I am just a bit nervous about using it in the S Type R.
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Last week I e-mailed ZF asking for transmission fluid sources other than the Jaguar dealerships. Today I received a response indicating that I can order 6-speed ZF fluid from Eriksson in Connecticut, phone (800) 388-4418. I called them and learned that it is sold in 20-litre jugs for $497 plus shipping. That would be enough for 3 transmission fluid drain-and-fills assuming that 6 to 7 litres are needed per drain-and-fill. Eriksson confirmed that this 6-speed ZF fluid (called Lifeguard 6) is indeed Shell M1375.4 mineral oil, the only fluid recommended by Jaguar here in North America and the only fluid that will protect your factory warranty and probably your extended warranty as well....

If and when I decide to change our S-Type's transmission fluid, I'll look for a couple of other local S-Type owners who want to do the same. Three owners ordering one 20-litre jug of ZF fluid can really cut their costs way down if they all get together and change their fluid at the same time....