Hey guys, I recently picked up my S-type and love it. I found this forum and think its a great wealth of information so of course i signed up. I am hoping you guys can help me out with something here....

I have been reading on the site that it seems the transmission being good for life is not really a good idea and I have read many posts about guys changing out their fluid and it is just dead nasty. So I contacted the dealer to look into this a bit further.

He told me that he strongly recommends that I NOT change the fluid. He said its very expensive and that it wont increase the life of the transmission. He actually went further to say that if there actually was some minor issue in the transmission, that changing the fluid could actually make the problem worse.

With as expensive as these transmissions are i dont want to have to buy another one if this one goes bad. I am not having any issues with it now but an ounce of prevention kina thing you know.

So my question is is that dealer right? should i leave the tranny alone or change the fluid?

 

Ha, that's like asking which is the best brand of oil.
The last time I spoke to the dealer in Phoenix they were recommending 100k to change it.
I think you'll find most people here will suggest changing it around 70-80k, I don't recall anyone that has changed their fluid reporting a problem later if they didn't have one previously.
If you do a search and look in the "how to" section you'll find plenty of info on changing the fluid and the things to watch out for.

 

+1 on the above

 

Heh heh, this discussion has been going for years. Most agree that it's a good idea to change the fluid but there are more than a few who report no problems by leaving it alone, even well beyond 100k miles.

I'm a big advocate of regularly changing lubricants so I'm in the "change it" camp.

Cheers
DD

 

In addition: knowing that the lubricants in the tranny oil will wear out just like the lubricants in any other type of oil, I would strongly advise against leaving it as is. One of the reasons you have to change engine oil even if it doesn't look black and dirty, because after a certain time the lubricants break down and offer less protection.

 

It is worth doing, As mentioned above even if it looks healthy it will have lost its key features so needs replacing, Of course many can and will get away with never changing it but it's always a risk, I had mine done lately and the gear changes are smoother and I know everything in there is nice and lubed, Just for peace of mind it's worth doing!

 

Your dealer concerns me. At the least he should have told you that even the Jaguar service guide states that "fill for life" is 100k. So, at the minimum he should have said to come back when you hit 100k.

Honestly, fresh fluid won't hurt. How could it?? Now, a flush could be a concern. If there is stuff floating around in there, a flush could pump it to a place you don't want it. Remember that a drain, filter change, and refill service will not replace all the fluid, just a portion of it. I too, recommend a service.

Just for reference, my 300 also has a "sealed" transmission, a Mercedes 5 speed, and Chrysler lists a service interval for it.

Our R350's original manual states that the transmission is sealed. Then Mercedes changed the specs to a fluid/filter change every 40K.

 

Repair shops, dealer or otherwise, make their living by servicing and repairing cars. If they recommend *against* performing a repair or service, seemingly against their own interests, it might be because they've had a bad experiences in the past which prompt them to swear off certain services or repairs forever.

My limited understanding is that the fluid change procedure (more specifically, the refill procedure) is a bit tricky. I wouldn't be a surprised if (perhaps *years* ago) the process was bollixed up, resulting in problems and unrecoverable expense for the shop.....maybe a transmission failure or two. Now, as a result, they simply won't do transmssion fluid changes on that type of car.

Then, rather than saying "It's our policy to not do transmission fluid changes" they say "You don't need a transmission fluid change".

Just one possible explanation for the dealer's recommendation.

Cheers
DD

 

I second Doug's reasoning and plan to have mine done at 80k

 

The dealer was sort of right.


If your trans fluid has never been changed, you have a ton of miles on the car like 150,000 or more and the trans is on its last legs new fluid can push the trans over the edge. When a trans never gets serviced, sometimes the old fluid is all that keeps a trans going.

Some on explained it once to me that the old fluid is totally done for, you put in new fluid shock the system. It starts trying to clean up deposits ect.

Now the dealer is trying to cover their butts, if they do new fluid in the trans and it fails the customer is going to blame the dealer which is a load of crap.

I am of the groupe of people that if the trans was on its last legs then it was going to fail one way or another. This is typically why I work on my own cars. The only person I then can Blane is my self. I've broken my share of things working on cars.

Heck one time about 12 years ago I was in auto shop working on a friends car and broke the bolt on a break caliper. I remember thinking "this sure feels like too much torque " right before it broke. My buddie was working on the other side and set the torque for me. Turns out it was such a low torque value I couldn't feel the wrench click.

If I had to add up all the money I've saved working on my own cars I would bet I save $100,000 or more.

Doing the trans fluid flush is small beans. Anyone could DIY this service.

 

Just out of curiosity, who at the dealership made this statement? Back in the days when my dealer and I were still on friendly speaking terms, I found it very difficult to have access to someone technically competent that knew their stuff on S-types.

 

ZF tech support in Chicago recommends a fluid change at 100,000 miles for our 6-speed ZF boxes. And that is assuming the car has always done a 50/50 mix of highway/city driving, no towing, no gravel or dirt roads, and no road racing. If any of the factors above are in play, ZF tech support told me that they would consider changing the fluid at 80,000 miles....

If and when you change your fluid, it is crucial that you do it exactly as the Jaguar service documents describe it. Plenty of info about it here on the forum - do some reading, gain an understanding of what is involved, and be sure whoever does the job follows the process to the letter....

 

You are at just the right mileage for a change!!

Please search for a great thread from a guy called CCC. We now have a place to get the proper ZF parts and fluid for a good price. There are a few small items you need to get familiar with. The sleeve will leak and is a easy $15 piece to replace when the pan is off. Also the pan bolts have been upgraded IF you want to do that. I did but not everybody does. Then you need to decide what fluid to use. I use the proper ZF fluid but only because CCC found a supplier that has it for around $17/Liter and not $60/Liter!!

So yes your dealer is completely wrong. Any chance you can use a different dealer??

One last thing. Please get the proper and latest TCM software upgrade. Only a dealer can do this. It will help with the "Lurch". If you don't know what that is please search. There is an entire website about the "Lurch". The guy is off the deep end but there is a lot of good info on his site.
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Thanks for all the help guys, I will be changing out the fluid. Will Also be getting the TCM upgraded.

The more I dig into the inner working of the Jag, the more I fall in love with this car. But there is SO MUCH to learn. For example, I discovered that our transmissions.....please excuse if I get this not quite right but its close.....actually learns how we drive and adapts to better work with that. This can cause some problems when a new owner/driver takes over. Does upgrading the TCM also wipe this memory or do you accomplish this in another way?

While we are on the topic of software, what other systems in the S type has software that i will need to upgrade while at the dealer? Much of the mechanical I plan to do myself after reading everything on here but I might as well get the electrical taken care of all at once while the car is hooked up to their computers. My current list is:

1. TCM
2. Upgrade Nav DVD (not at dealer I know, already ordered new DVD)
3. access and clear code history so I have accurate baseline
4. activate global close via FOB

Anything else I am missing??

Again guys thanks for all the great advice. This forum is fantastic.

 

Three months ago my 03 STR was at Jaguar. During my bragging of how I keep up with her maintenance which included trans. fluid swap, the rep. mentiones "It isn't necessary to change trans. fluid, it's good for the life of the trans." ?

 

Nothing against your abilities but I would have them check the transmission fluid level. Make sure they state on the invoice what was done. It is a bit tricky and another check might be cheap insurance?
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What you are doing is just having them "reflash" the TCM. It isn't really an upgrade. Insist that they do it, sometimes they are reluctant. Also, read here on the proper way to drive it after a reflash. I didn't the first time and basically wasted the programming. They did it again and I did follow the drive procedure and it was much better. Still not perfect, but much better.

I wonder if there is a fuse to clear adaptations. On the Chrysler if it starts bogging down or shifting funny, you just pull a fuse and it resets the trans adaptations. Works wonders...

Also, Jagman, invest in a decent code reader. You could then clear your own codes...

 

I sometimes wonder about what is behind dealer's advice. I got my '05 STR at 55000 miles, and it had a bad dose of the "lurch". I decided to change the tranny fluid, pan, sleeve and bolts. Was a big improvement, but not perfect. Many forum members said that a TCM reflash was the way to go, so I went to the Vancouver dealer to have the 1-hour job done.

To my surprise the production manager came out and advised against! Said he had just been on a Jag course where it was reported that there had been problems with some cars when TCM flashes were done, and that in some cases serious damage to the gearbox resulted. His exact words "We can do it for you, but cannot guarantee that you won't develop a gearbox problem, and that could be an expensive fix".

I have never seen a posting on this forum that ever suggested there might be problems associated with a TCM reflash, but the possibility of a $5000 tranny bill made me think twice. Apparently, Jag advises that the higher the mileage at the time of reflash, the higher the chance of a problem. I'm still not convinced, but just chicken.

 

It's cheaper than a new transmission. Mine's currently undergoing a nearly $4k rebuild.