Fair Priced ZF Transmission rebuild S-Type
#1
12-12-2016, 02:28 PM
Fair Priced ZF Transmission rebuild S-Type
If You Have seen My post over the last 6mo or so You Know I've Had a rather strange Transmission Issue, But with the Help of a lot of Good people I have fixed the problem and I wanted to share what I found for others who may have a transmission problem and want to fix it for a fair and reasonable cost.
Special thanks to Brutal for invaluable information on software, setting and how to access it, (Shame on Scottsdale Jaguar for Not even trying to check it and lying to us saying car was to old for latest software checks, still taking $160 for doing nothing I know the problem codes before I got there).
A Big thanks to Elizabeth at Transmissions Express 877-318-6433, she put up with our need to talk with someone about the process and got the Service Manager to talk us through it, and my many phone calls about my return pickup eta.
Also to Mike and the guys at Sun Valley Imports, If you live in AZ forget the dealership Bring your Jag Here 950 N. Stadem Dr Tempe, AZ 85281 480-949-2813.
They didn't treat us as if we were crazy wanting them to pull the transmission ship it across the west coast wait several weeks for its return put it back in the car Update and test it. But they saved us thousands on our total bill. ( more on costs later ).
Also from calling me on the test drives to duplicate the problem, To the 1st class customer service in getting a pallet and securing it for pick up, When tranny was returned ( I liked the clean up and spray coat Transmission Express puts on after rebuild makes it easy to see leaks and Looks good ).
They had the car already up in the air waiting for delivery,,,
After going through all this effort, I love the car, and now I feel after driving it, I believe it will last for many more years. The costs the Dealership gave me,, a 10K quote for a New tranny installed, they don't work on them I was Told, ( I'll probably never be back there again). As well as the 3 local shops who quoted me between 4.5K to 6K or 5.5 to 7K, stating they would have to spend several hours looking over it after pulling it, before they could give me a firm price, the best warranty one would give, was 18 months the other 2 were 12months.
all the while talking to them, they gave the impression of not liking or not knowledgeable of this ZF Tranny, the opposite of talking with Transmissions Express, who were confident ( the service manager talked us through known Issues, ZF Updates and there pressure test of each gear,, way more info than I understood) their warranty 60 Months/100,000 Miles the link is below, and on approve claims Labor payout is based on Motor Factory Time at $50.00 per hour. but that's only for the first 12mo I believe.
Transmissions Express-Your One-Stop Source for Quality Remanufactured Transmissions - Warranty and Return Policy-Transmissions Express
They don't stock this tranny like some of the other model trannys, not that many extras around I guess, so I couldn't do the exchange and get it quicker, I had to send in mine and wait for them to work it,, they got me a Shipping rate of $300 RT from AZ to OR from business to business,( from drop off to pick up and drive home was 2 1/2 Weeks) A little more if picking up from home. Call them if you have more questions 877-318-6433 I'm trying to see if Forum members can get a discount on shipping I'm emailing her this link but tell Her Logan in AZ on the Jaguar Forum referred you.
The rebuild or as they say it remanufacture,, because their work is better than new with fixes and ZF updates was $2345 so If you are confident and a DIY'er. for 2650 you can have a almost new or better Tranny.
I almost forgot the Tranny must be drained for shipping (my dad and I debated if we wanted to try it ourselves but looking at a saving of only around $500 and the fact we never worked on trannys before we went with the guys at Sun Valley who Pulled, drained, shipped off, replaced back, put new lifeguard 6 fluid tested all for $1050.00.
My total out of pocket was $3750,, I took it mostly easy, for two weeks, starting to have a lot of fun now, the smoothness of the shifts no faults or limp mode puts a smile on your face, and its such a nice warranty too.
I found out a lot of useful info - like the Ford part # 6R60 (ZF6HP26) is a version of the same ZF trans they let Ford make - it and was used in the 4.6L Mercury Mountaineer from 06-11 and other models, my folks purchased a 06 with 18k miles in 08, which now has 135K, and is rock solid but their fluid and service change recommendation are totally different (my folks changed fluid every 40-50K).
I wont be spending $25+ a quart for LifeGuard6 anymore as Mercon SP Fluid Part No. XT-6QSP is used in the Mercury verison of the ZF6 for less than half that cost. and I wont wait 100,000 miles to change it either
Below is some Private Messages that Helped me Thru the many Issues
Re: Thanks Brutal 10-30, S-Type Transmission rebuild Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Yes I would put on the forum to help others out in a similar situation.
****(private info)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
I was thinking of posting a Log of how this turns out, Do you thing its worth putting up on forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Thanks Brutal, they did both, still had problem, I did end up sending it to Transmissions Express in Portland, OR after that, We called them many times 1st and were finally able to talk with the shop manager for a good 15 mins one day, they do a lot of ZF6HP26 transmissions for BMW, and others companies, He went over section by section explaining a lot of little things they have to do with this unit, and some updates ZF has had done after production started in the years since to address some issues,, most of it was over me and my Dads head, but it was reassuring, anyway they give a fair price for the work, currently around $2400 to as they say it Remanufacture the transmission, My Euro shop in AZ, pulled the trans and will replace it back again, clear adaptions and update software w/new fluid for $950, round-trip shipping was $300. Most local shops wanted $5-7K, and were not real talkative about having worked on this transmission, most would say they need to spend time taking it apart to know whats wrong, they didn't invoke a lot of confidence. I was thinking of posting a Log of how this turns out, Do you thing its worth putting up on forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
It is not just clear adaptations, they must also be able to upload LATEST software into Trans control module
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Thank you so much Brutal, sorry know texting by phone is terrible, and I understand what you say this might not be a fix, my dad has been asking a lot about this since I showed him your msg, he was P.O'd when we left Jag Dealer, but no one else gave us options other than replacement rebuild. You really at others mercy when you don't know facts of info,
So we are going to take your advice and push someone to try this first, we found a euro shop that was going to pull and install tranny for us and can reset*adaptions ( we were shipping it out of state to a transmission rebuild place with ZF experience and they told us to find a shop that could do that,,, we hope this is same as what you are talking of ) Dad is going to have them try this 1st*to see like you said we would be no worst off. *I'm going to give him your number, he knows more about cars but I do the physical repair work mainly.*
We live in AZ outside of phoenix my dad - *****************(deleted private info) in case he calls you it won't be a strangers number, we will show shop this msg and hope for the best. thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Years ago for gear ratio faults with the ZF were deemed mechanical replace only. ZF came out and said to clear adaptations (learning) flash the tcm with latest software. Surprisingly this did fix almost all of these issues everytime. That person at the dealer you talked to is full of ****. They either don't knowor dont want to mess with older cars. Sdd supports older cars pre 09 with legacy. I just used it yesturday on a 05 XJ, and I have a 95, 96, and 04 all VDP XJ'S. I'm a 20 year dealer jaguar master tech who also happens to have Ian Dawes cell number who is the ZF ENGINEER in the UK.
It's a 1 hr $145 fee, and like I said it may fix, it may stay the same or can get worse. It would get worse if it has adapted to a true mechanical fault and you clear adaptations that have help to work around the failure. It's still alot cheaper than a rebuilt.
When they go into legacy with Sdd you chose "configure existing tcm" this flashes to new software, clears adaptations, abs all fault codes. Then drive moderately for 300 miles avoiding full throttle operation and leave sport mode off during this time.
If this all works I would change the pan (which is the filter) and 5 litres of ZF Trans fluid. New updated bolts and electric connector sleeve. I sell a kit with all this for $250 shipped. I have a 2400 Sq ft garage behind the house where I do some side work and work on my toys. Good luck, any other questions call me, this is alot of texting on phone....... *****************************(deleted private info)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Hello Brutal
I saw a post stating you were able to help someone with my problem several years back
I have a 04 4.2L s-type, around 52.000 miles, my biggest issue now is transmission, my problem is a 6th to 5th downshift on acceleration creating a fault, if you press hard on gas pedal, you can slowly increase speed with no problem.
went to local Jag dealer(Scottsdale) after calling and explaining problem, they said bring it in they work on it, this is off the ppwk I was given back.
Slips through 5th gear connected IDS, code P0730 set gear ratio fault P0735 set gear fault 5th gear, trans internal fault mechanical fault and or control valve block fault.
was then told they don't fix them just replace, would have never went there if known that. and they could not recommend a shop, ( I wont be back ) Feel very let down by that Jag Dealer.
my problem is who to go to repair, would Aamco be a choice, I live in east valley of phoenix, az area 85249 zip. if you have connections who could find place, I have many question like fair cost for rebuild if needed, what should I ask to know if shop can do the job. any help would be thankful for.
For rhat code u clear adaptations and you do a software update and this is per bulletins directly from the ZF the manufacture of the transmission has been that way for years. Tell them to look in topics, however you need to be cautioned that it may or may not fix it but that is definitely the first and cheapest thing to do you may also want to drop the pan and replace 5 liters of fluid on a pan drop and refill
Wow Brutal
That is some great news, I have and appointment to start trans pull for rebuild on tuesday, you are the first to even say this to check for,,,, and I've talked to half a dozen ZF trans shops.
(I'm starting to think they are just looking for a easy buck, stating to me it will cost 1000's to fix this problem, before they even look at it, and if there is even a chance this is all it Might be, you would think someone would said it as a 1st step to try)
Anyway You can provide me a link or copy of this Bulletin,, even Scottsdale Jaguar didn't mentions this possibility, And I asked them about checking for latest software update on my car, the told me they couldn't do updates on Jags before 2009, and my car couldn't take there new system, I don't know who to trust anymore if even dealership don't care, so if you could help arm me with Bulletin info, I can show the shop, as a option to try first, I would be very thankful
Special thanks to Brutal for invaluable information on software, setting and how to access it, (Shame on Scottsdale Jaguar for Not even trying to check it and lying to us saying car was to old for latest software checks, still taking $160 for doing nothing I know the problem codes before I got there).
A Big thanks to Elizabeth at Transmissions Express 877-318-6433, she put up with our need to talk with someone about the process and got the Service Manager to talk us through it, and my many phone calls about my return pickup eta.
Also to Mike and the guys at Sun Valley Imports, If you live in AZ forget the dealership Bring your Jag Here 950 N. Stadem Dr Tempe, AZ 85281 480-949-2813.
They didn't treat us as if we were crazy wanting them to pull the transmission ship it across the west coast wait several weeks for its return put it back in the car Update and test it. But they saved us thousands on our total bill. ( more on costs later ).
Also from calling me on the test drives to duplicate the problem, To the 1st class customer service in getting a pallet and securing it for pick up, When tranny was returned ( I liked the clean up and spray coat Transmission Express puts on after rebuild makes it easy to see leaks and Looks good ).
They had the car already up in the air waiting for delivery,,,
After going through all this effort, I love the car, and now I feel after driving it, I believe it will last for many more years. The costs the Dealership gave me,, a 10K quote for a New tranny installed, they don't work on them I was Told, ( I'll probably never be back there again). As well as the 3 local shops who quoted me between 4.5K to 6K or 5.5 to 7K, stating they would have to spend several hours looking over it after pulling it, before they could give me a firm price, the best warranty one would give, was 18 months the other 2 were 12months.
all the while talking to them, they gave the impression of not liking or not knowledgeable of this ZF Tranny, the opposite of talking with Transmissions Express, who were confident ( the service manager talked us through known Issues, ZF Updates and there pressure test of each gear,, way more info than I understood) their warranty 60 Months/100,000 Miles the link is below, and on approve claims Labor payout is based on Motor Factory Time at $50.00 per hour. but that's only for the first 12mo I believe.
Transmissions Express-Your One-Stop Source for Quality Remanufactured Transmissions - Warranty and Return Policy-Transmissions Express
They don't stock this tranny like some of the other model trannys, not that many extras around I guess, so I couldn't do the exchange and get it quicker, I had to send in mine and wait for them to work it,, they got me a Shipping rate of $300 RT from AZ to OR from business to business,( from drop off to pick up and drive home was 2 1/2 Weeks) A little more if picking up from home. Call them if you have more questions 877-318-6433 I'm trying to see if Forum members can get a discount on shipping I'm emailing her this link but tell Her Logan in AZ on the Jaguar Forum referred you.
The rebuild or as they say it remanufacture,, because their work is better than new with fixes and ZF updates was $2345 so If you are confident and a DIY'er. for 2650 you can have a almost new or better Tranny.
I almost forgot the Tranny must be drained for shipping (my dad and I debated if we wanted to try it ourselves but looking at a saving of only around $500 and the fact we never worked on trannys before we went with the guys at Sun Valley who Pulled, drained, shipped off, replaced back, put new lifeguard 6 fluid tested all for $1050.00.
My total out of pocket was $3750,, I took it mostly easy, for two weeks, starting to have a lot of fun now, the smoothness of the shifts no faults or limp mode puts a smile on your face, and its such a nice warranty too.
I found out a lot of useful info - like the Ford part # 6R60 (ZF6HP26) is a version of the same ZF trans they let Ford make - it and was used in the 4.6L Mercury Mountaineer from 06-11 and other models, my folks purchased a 06 with 18k miles in 08, which now has 135K, and is rock solid but their fluid and service change recommendation are totally different (my folks changed fluid every 40-50K).
I wont be spending $25+ a quart for LifeGuard6 anymore as Mercon SP Fluid Part No. XT-6QSP is used in the Mercury verison of the ZF6 for less than half that cost. and I wont wait 100,000 miles to change it either
Below is some Private Messages that Helped me Thru the many Issues
Re: Thanks Brutal 10-30, S-Type Transmission rebuild Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Yes I would put on the forum to help others out in a similar situation.
****(private info)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
I was thinking of posting a Log of how this turns out, Do you thing its worth putting up on forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Thanks Brutal, they did both, still had problem, I did end up sending it to Transmissions Express in Portland, OR after that, We called them many times 1st and were finally able to talk with the shop manager for a good 15 mins one day, they do a lot of ZF6HP26 transmissions for BMW, and others companies, He went over section by section explaining a lot of little things they have to do with this unit, and some updates ZF has had done after production started in the years since to address some issues,, most of it was over me and my Dads head, but it was reassuring, anyway they give a fair price for the work, currently around $2400 to as they say it Remanufacture the transmission, My Euro shop in AZ, pulled the trans and will replace it back again, clear adaptions and update software w/new fluid for $950, round-trip shipping was $300. Most local shops wanted $5-7K, and were not real talkative about having worked on this transmission, most would say they need to spend time taking it apart to know whats wrong, they didn't invoke a lot of confidence. I was thinking of posting a Log of how this turns out, Do you thing its worth putting up on forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
It is not just clear adaptations, they must also be able to upload LATEST software into Trans control module
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Thank you so much Brutal, sorry know texting by phone is terrible, and I understand what you say this might not be a fix, my dad has been asking a lot about this since I showed him your msg, he was P.O'd when we left Jag Dealer, but no one else gave us options other than replacement rebuild. You really at others mercy when you don't know facts of info,
So we are going to take your advice and push someone to try this first, we found a euro shop that was going to pull and install tranny for us and can reset*adaptions ( we were shipping it out of state to a transmission rebuild place with ZF experience and they told us to find a shop that could do that,,, we hope this is same as what you are talking of ) Dad is going to have them try this 1st*to see like you said we would be no worst off. *I'm going to give him your number, he knows more about cars but I do the physical repair work mainly.*
We live in AZ outside of phoenix my dad - *****************(deleted private info) in case he calls you it won't be a strangers number, we will show shop this msg and hope for the best. thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Years ago for gear ratio faults with the ZF were deemed mechanical replace only. ZF came out and said to clear adaptations (learning) flash the tcm with latest software. Surprisingly this did fix almost all of these issues everytime. That person at the dealer you talked to is full of ****. They either don't knowor dont want to mess with older cars. Sdd supports older cars pre 09 with legacy. I just used it yesturday on a 05 XJ, and I have a 95, 96, and 04 all VDP XJ'S. I'm a 20 year dealer jaguar master tech who also happens to have Ian Dawes cell number who is the ZF ENGINEER in the UK.
It's a 1 hr $145 fee, and like I said it may fix, it may stay the same or can get worse. It would get worse if it has adapted to a true mechanical fault and you clear adaptations that have help to work around the failure. It's still alot cheaper than a rebuilt.
When they go into legacy with Sdd you chose "configure existing tcm" this flashes to new software, clears adaptations, abs all fault codes. Then drive moderately for 300 miles avoiding full throttle operation and leave sport mode off during this time.
If this all works I would change the pan (which is the filter) and 5 litres of ZF Trans fluid. New updated bolts and electric connector sleeve. I sell a kit with all this for $250 shipped. I have a 2400 Sq ft garage behind the house where I do some side work and work on my toys. Good luck, any other questions call me, this is alot of texting on phone....... *****************************(deleted private info)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganR
Hello Brutal
I saw a post stating you were able to help someone with my problem several years back
I have a 04 4.2L s-type, around 52.000 miles, my biggest issue now is transmission, my problem is a 6th to 5th downshift on acceleration creating a fault, if you press hard on gas pedal, you can slowly increase speed with no problem.
went to local Jag dealer(Scottsdale) after calling and explaining problem, they said bring it in they work on it, this is off the ppwk I was given back.
Slips through 5th gear connected IDS, code P0730 set gear ratio fault P0735 set gear fault 5th gear, trans internal fault mechanical fault and or control valve block fault.
was then told they don't fix them just replace, would have never went there if known that. and they could not recommend a shop, ( I wont be back ) Feel very let down by that Jag Dealer.
my problem is who to go to repair, would Aamco be a choice, I live in east valley of phoenix, az area 85249 zip. if you have connections who could find place, I have many question like fair cost for rebuild if needed, what should I ask to know if shop can do the job. any help would be thankful for.
For rhat code u clear adaptations and you do a software update and this is per bulletins directly from the ZF the manufacture of the transmission has been that way for years. Tell them to look in topics, however you need to be cautioned that it may or may not fix it but that is definitely the first and cheapest thing to do you may also want to drop the pan and replace 5 liters of fluid on a pan drop and refill
Wow Brutal
That is some great news, I have and appointment to start trans pull for rebuild on tuesday, you are the first to even say this to check for,,,, and I've talked to half a dozen ZF trans shops.
(I'm starting to think they are just looking for a easy buck, stating to me it will cost 1000's to fix this problem, before they even look at it, and if there is even a chance this is all it Might be, you would think someone would said it as a 1st step to try)
Anyway You can provide me a link or copy of this Bulletin,, even Scottsdale Jaguar didn't mentions this possibility, And I asked them about checking for latest software update on my car, the told me they couldn't do updates on Jags before 2009, and my car couldn't take there new system, I don't know who to trust anymore if even dealership don't care, so if you could help arm me with Bulletin info, I can show the shop, as a option to try first, I would be very thankful
#2
12-13-2016, 07:08 AM
Veteran Member
There are indeed some great indie transmission shops out there that can rebuild these ZF units for a fraction of what any Jaguar dealership would charge for a replacement swap. All you have to do is spend the necessary time and effort to find them. Keep in mind that many brands of vehicles use these ZF units so there is far greater familiarity with them than most Jaguar dealerships would have you believe....
That said, a ZF overhaul should be your last resort. The $150 ZF Adaptations Drive Cycle reset procedure along with a fresh ATF drain-and-fill has eliminated declining shift quality in my wife's 2006 XK8 twice now (once in July 2013 at about 68,000 miles and again in April 2016 at about 101,500 miles). While I hope I never have to pursue repairing either of our ZF units beyond doing the Adaptations Drive Cycle reset procedure on an occasional basis, I have indeed researched experienced indie ZF repair shops in our neck of the woods and I know who to call if I ever feel the need to investigate a rebuild....
That said, a ZF overhaul should be your last resort. The $150 ZF Adaptations Drive Cycle reset procedure along with a fresh ATF drain-and-fill has eliminated declining shift quality in my wife's 2006 XK8 twice now (once in July 2013 at about 68,000 miles and again in April 2016 at about 101,500 miles). While I hope I never have to pursue repairing either of our ZF units beyond doing the Adaptations Drive Cycle reset procedure on an occasional basis, I have indeed researched experienced indie ZF repair shops in our neck of the woods and I know who to call if I ever feel the need to investigate a rebuild....