Jon89,

You're basically right but I suspect the problem is that with a faulty throttle reading (or whatever it is) the computer just doesn't know what to do. So, it enters a mode "deemed to be safe". It wasn't especially safe, or at least it was scary, however. If you google "limp mode" or "limp home" there are lots of worrying messages for lots of cars (BMW, MB, Lexus, Jag, Ford, and so on). Googling "hesitation" finds another lot, such as where a car didn't accelerate when required to. I don't think the "deemed to be safe" limp mode matches my idea of safe!

It's clearly not just Jaguar, but that doesn't excuse ANY of the manufacturers.

I'm surprised they're taking control away from the driver because if there is an accident (such as you describe), the manufacturer stands to be liable in law.

Where's Nader...

 

MyBlackCat,

I didn't buy the second Lexus. Hell, I didn't even buy the first Lexus. My wife caught Lexus Fever. It was her money, it was her primary vehicle, so it was her decision. I fought both purchases like Ali/Frazier, especially the second one. I lost. We need SUVs to haul our dogs (we have three dogs now and we have had as many as six). We've been well-served by two different Grand Cherokees since the mid-90s. Great, fast, comfortable vehicles for us that rarely broke. Easy and inexpensive for me to keep running. Put over 125,000 miles on both of them. But as I said, she caught Lexus Fever. Case closed. I still call her current RX330 "the crackerbox", which was my nickname for her lousy RX300 that needed so much warranty work....

Jaguar has supposedly taken care of every item on my entire warranty punch list except they are still working on the telephone microphone in the headliner that has recently begun to cut off intermittently when my wife uses the car's Bluetooth system. My guess is a wiring short, but that's only a guess. Maybe it will be as simple as replacing the microphone and not having to pull the headliner down. My Service Advisor continues to hem and haw on this one, saying that it is now "obsolete phone equipment" and they may not be able to fix it. My wife's take on this is that the car's Bluetooth system has worked flawlessly for her up until a couple of weeks ago, the car is still under factory warranty, so quit bitching and moaning about it and just fix it. Other than Tuesday's "limp mode" failure, getting the microphone fixed is the most important feature of this car to her. If she can't trust the S-Type because of the "limp mode" issue and now she can't even use its Bluetooth feature with her phone, then just throw the whole car away as far as she's concerned....

 

Hey Jon, why dont you just swap cars with her for a few weeks and drive it like mad to see if the limp mode comes back? After a few hundred miles and it doesnt come back you are probably good to go. It seems as though that people whom have experienced this issue have had it return rather shortly after the codes are cleared or an attemped fix has been made. For me, it was about 350 miles. Make sure you drive it in the rain, use a high powered car wash, even spray the engine for sh*ts and giggles... Just a thought...

 

Bull27,

I've already decided that I will be the only one to drive our S-Type for the first week or so once we get it back. She has her Lexus so she doesn't have to drive the S-Type. I'll drive it like a bat out of hell, which she never does. Yep, I'll drive it in the rain, I'll drive it after I've washed it, but there AIN'T NO WAY that I'm going to open up the hood and spray the engine bay - man, that would be suicide with this car....

My single problem with the S-Type is that I can only drive it comfortably for about two hours max. At 6-foot-7 and 250 pounds, I'm just too big for this car....

 

Haha, well just make sure u dont have a coffee in your right hand so you can hit the HAZARD button at a moments notice if the the car decides to light up like the 4th of July again..

 

Funny thing with my STR the microphone was doing the same thing,the dealer changed it out without hesitiation.I also had the bonnet pad changed as well due to shrinkage.This thing took 5 weeks to come from England.From what I see on the forum it sounds like allot of the guys have had the same problem so maybe they were in short supply for awhile.
I have also had much better reliability over the years with my American made cars and trucks,alas they are out of style and don't help us keep up with the Jones's. We love our Jag but are weary of it. My neighbor also had a terrible time with his Lexus RX330, now they drive MB.

 

I don't give a rat's *** about keeping up with the Jones. I just want reliable, affordable vehicles that I don't have to babysit or work on all the time. If they also happen to be gorgeous like this S-Type, great. If they look like a Freightliner barrelling down the road like my Ram does, that's okay too. I just want them to do their jobs, keep everyone safe on the road, and not cost me an arm and a leg and a bunch of time to maintain....

A lady who identified herself as calling from "JaguarUSA's Executive Offices" called me an hour or so ago to let me know that they had talked with the management at my dealership and were monitoring my situation. She asked me if I was satisfied thus far (I'm happier now than I was when I was initially told on Wednesday that our Throttle Position Sensor would not be replaced even though the P2135 code was thrown). She asked me if I had received a loaner vehicle when I dropped our S-Type off at the dealership (no, but I didn't know that I could have one, and now that I do, I'll ask for one from now on). She told me that she would stay in touch with the dealership's Service Manager and keep me updated on how our car is progressing. I thanked her for Jaguar Corporate's interest and involvement in our case and told her that I looked forward to her updates. I didn't catch her name but I'll get it when she calls again to update me....

I didn't expect this but I certainly hope that it causes my dealership to remember from now on that I'm dead serious about getting any and all repairs done right and complete the first time, and not to be stingy with probable-cause parts replacement....

 

Jon89,

From what you say about the Bluetooth, I agree: they should just fix it. (Not your problem how.)

You're also right not to wash inside the engine bay. I wouldn't do that on any modern car.

I wish we could get similar progress and get Microsoft to fix Windows!

 

I disagree on the whole washing thing. First off: I do it all the time with no problems at all. Granted I do things that others don't usually do. Second Of All: I am in the automotive business. I work for a company that is one of the leading automotive connector distributors in North America. While I can't share propriatary information, suffice it to say, I know what goes in to the modern connection systems. Terminal Blocks, Seals, Grommets, ect. These are rated at specs that they will never see in an automotive environment. This includes the stuff in the engine harness. While failures do occur, it is mostly caused by a miss fitment of the devise and not a flaw in the devise itself.

 

Jeff, I guess Jaguar didnt do their due dilligence and rate the throttle body connections at specs anything more than a drizzle...

 

The connector is fine.... Just the person that snaped it in didn't do it right. BTW: we don't sell connection systems to Ford....And that is who built the harness....

 

Picked up our S-Type about 5:30 this evening. They fixed everything on my punch list except for the Bluetooth situation. I told them when I turned the car in to them on Tuesday evening that my brief online research of the issue pointed to a faulty overhead microphone. They didn't pay any attention to that. My Service Advisor was still saying as late as this afternoon that my wife's Blackberry phone (he continually referred to it as a Blueberry) "may not be on the Jaguar approved list" but he didn't have a clue how to find that list. So a kind lady at the showroom's front desk went onto the JaguarUSA website, researched my wife's phone, found out it was fully approved for use in our particular car, and showed it to our Service Advisor for absolute proof that the phone is 100% compatible and fully approved. No one in the service department ever bothered to do this - they just declared "No Trouble Found" and went on to the next item on my warranty punch list. Unbelievable. I'm glad I decided to get Jaguar Corporate involved in our situation....

So they ordered a new microphone while we were there. Had they done this on Wednesday, the car would have been 100% fixed when I drove it off this evening. That means another 50-mile round trip to the dealership next week when the microphone shows up for a 10-minute microphone removal and installation. My wife was furious and I actually felt a little sorry for our Service Advisor as she was chewing him up and spitting him out....

I finally drove the car home after reading and signing the warranty paperwork (which ran five pages). No problems, no codes, no unusual situations on the 25-mile trip home. I truly hope that "limp mode" is a thing of the past for us with the new throttle body in place and that my wife will gradually be able to trust the car again. If any related problems show up, you can bet that I'll post them here....

 

Jon89,

Pity to spoil the fix for lack of fitting a cheap device!

I understand repairers have the problem that if they open and fit an electronic module or device to find it doesn't fix the fault then they now have a device that is no longer classed as new. It may be OK or it may have been damaged during the short use - but they cannot tell and in law may also not realistically be able to reuse it.

However, and this to me is the killer, the damage to customer relations caused by the kind of scenario you describe means there really needs to be a new approach: one which puts the customer first.

Jaguar and their franchises are not at all unique in this respect but that does not mean they are getting it right from the customer's perspective. They are losing goodwill over a device costing almost nothing.

How about asking that lady who called you to read this thread? Maybe even print it and post it to her.

We all love our cars. We know they go wrong. The quality of the response matters. Especially for a luxury marque.

A good experience means an owner may in time buy more Jags. It's obvious what a poor experience means.

There again, if enough people have a bad time the used price will fall and I can then pick up a bargain!

 

jagv8,

Good idea about me informing the lady from Jaguar Corporate about this thread and asking her to read it. I'll have to give that some thought. If I do that, I lose my anonymity with them (on this forum, anyway). Not sure if I want to do that....

You're spot-on about letting the procurement of an inexpensive microphone further damage an already-shaky customer relationship. My wife was mad as hell and let our Service Advisor as well as the Master Tech know it. She really felt that they were ignoring her and trying to wash their hands of an issue that is very important to her (her ability to use the Bluetooth function). I tried to convey all week to our Service Advisor how important the Bluetooth feature is to my wife, but he kept making excuses as to why they might not be able to get it to work. If they had simply ordered a new microphone on Wednesday, customer relations would already be on the mend with her. But not now....

 

Update on more warranty service performed yesterday:

Microphone replaced. Intermittent Bluetooth problem now resolved.

Rear stabilizer link boots and tie-rods replaced, alignment performed. Didn't know if I would notice a difference in the ride or not, but I believe it is just a wee bit smoother now.

Wife left for Florida on one of her solo trips to visit her parents this morning with the Jaguar 24/7 Customer Assistance phone number pinned to her sleeve. By the time she returns next Thursday, she'll have put more than 1,800 miles on the car in just seven days. Should be a great test for the new throttle body, especially if she encounters heavy rain along the way.

Still doesn't fully trust the car, but I give her credit for being willing to suck it up and drive it to Florida and back for an ideal test....


Jaguar Corporate called me again this past Tuesday afternoon to take our temperature at this point. Said they would call again next week since the car was due back in the shop yesterday for additional warranty repairs. And they sent me a very nice Jaguar t-shirt and even got the size right (XXL Tall). How they knew I am 6-foot-7 I have no idea....

J.D. Powers called me on Wednesday evening to survey me on how Jaguar has handled our warranty issues thus far. We're certainly drawing attention if nothing else. Whether that will translate to better service, listening carefully to the customer, and making every effort to fix it right the first time remains to be seen....

 

God bless and good luck to her. Have been through 2 rain storms, 2 highpressure car washes and no Limp mode. Still have a tad of anxiety on the highway though..

 

Jon,
This is a classic example of how a dealer shapes the experience. I use a dealer here in Ohio that will notoriously replace everything to fix a problem. They have done this for me plus I've heard them on the phone with other customers doing the same, unless it's out of warranty, then they give the customer options. They aren't perfect. When they couldn't get some molding on correct enough to stop a wind noise, they sent it to a Restoration shop that got it fixed up. Now it was only a wind noise, they could just have said "we've replaced it, so it must be a design flaw" So, to anyone in North East Ohio... go see Mike @ Jaguar of Cleveland. Funny enough they are also the ones that run jaguarparts.com. I hope I don't get in trouble for the free plug, but they seem to treat people better that the other comments on here. Have to wonder if the dealers of GM and Chrysler were better if they wouldn't be better off....

 

Bull27,

Thanks for the kind words. Hope your STR's limp mode problems are permanently fixed as well. Time will tell for both of us....

 

My '05 S-type went into limp-home mode the day I drove it off the lot last August. I was certain I had made a big mistake... The dealer said they reflashed the transmission computer (still under warranty at 31k miles) and it has not acted up since. If the wife need service in FLA, Palm Beach Motor Cars is very professional. --b44

 

Thanks for the Florida service recommendation, but I'm assuming Palm Beach Motor Cars is in the West Palm Beach area. Her parents live in the Tampa area so she's over on the Gulf Coast. I assume Tampa/St. Pete has at least a couple of Jaguar dealerships within reasonable proximity. Sure hope that I don't need to find out....