S-type v6 2000 codes P0303 and P0353
#1
10-17-2009, 09:33 AM
S-type v6 2000 codes P0303 and P0353
Hi guys I need your help !
I just recently changed all 6 ignition coils and things ran great for about a week. Now I am getting rough idling and these codes...
P0303 and P0353
What should I check?
Standing in front of the hood, which one is cylinder 3?
I just recently changed all 6 ignition coils and things ran great for about a week. Now I am getting rough idling and these codes...
P0303 and P0353
What should I check?
Standing in front of the hood, which one is cylinder 3?
#2
10-17-2009, 11:25 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Misfiring Issues -
1) Did you read the 3-pages on Thread '' Misfiring Issues'' ?
See also
2) http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=882939
See also
2) http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=882939
Last edited by danielsatur; 10-17-2009 at 06:47 PM.
#3
10-17-2009, 01:29 PM
Did you read the 3-pages on Thread '' Misfiring Issues'' ?
See also
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=882939
See also
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=882939
Glad to see you know how to copy and paste links in automotive forums as well!
#4
10-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dude, if there is an elehpant in the room, it's going to ****,****, or go on a rampage!
I have fired several dealers and service in the local area for bad services, they should be kissing my butt as a customer.
He already threw six COP's and still have the problem, and you were of no help.
How much does Jaguar service charge for six Cop replacements?
Theres a good hussel in cleaning,reset code, and charge for a new COP.
The beauty of this thread started it starts fresh, and it's not contaminated with BS yet.
1) Is the Misfire a constant hit on cylinder 3 or random cylinders?
* This is a simple physical cylinder layout for Engine not firing order.
Transmission
3 6
2 5
1 4
FAN
2) Remove and do a visual inspect on #3 COP.
3) Look for a rust residue or oil on COP boot, this can cause a misfire.
If you noticed were cylinder 3 is located, the cowel will leak water onto the ignition wires and sneak in the back of COP cover and drown the spark plug on cylinder 3. ''Misfire''
You said, it didn't rain, but did you wash your car?
Oil is evidence of a bad spark plug boss seal, if only one seal is bad on that bank, you can design a condom like seal to help prevent the COP from shorting out. this is another Trade secret.
If no evidence of oil or water damage continue to step 4.
Example of a simple roll from pos 3 to 1.
4) Roll COP,and spark plug from 3 to 1. ;Reset code
5) Roll the injector from 3 to 1. ;Reset code
6) Check signal wire to COP 3.
7) Do a compression check on cylinder 3.
The whole objective is to roll the problem from pos 3 to pos 1, and weed the problem out.
If the problem seems to disappear, be patient, keep COP cover off, keep engine dry, and put 100-150 miles
of highway and city driving (Ford drive cycle).
I have fired several dealers and service in the local area for bad services, they should be kissing my butt as a customer.
He already threw six COP's and still have the problem, and you were of no help.
How much does Jaguar service charge for six Cop replacements?
Theres a good hussel in cleaning,reset code, and charge for a new COP.
The beauty of this thread started it starts fresh, and it's not contaminated with BS yet.
1) Is the Misfire a constant hit on cylinder 3 or random cylinders?
* This is a simple physical cylinder layout for Engine not firing order.
Transmission
3 6
2 5
1 4
FAN
2) Remove and do a visual inspect on #3 COP.
3) Look for a rust residue or oil on COP boot, this can cause a misfire.
If you noticed were cylinder 3 is located, the cowel will leak water onto the ignition wires and sneak in the back of COP cover and drown the spark plug on cylinder 3. ''Misfire''
You said, it didn't rain, but did you wash your car?
Oil is evidence of a bad spark plug boss seal, if only one seal is bad on that bank, you can design a condom like seal to help prevent the COP from shorting out. this is another Trade secret.
If no evidence of oil or water damage continue to step 4.
Example of a simple roll from pos 3 to 1.
4) Roll COP,and spark plug from 3 to 1. ;Reset code
5) Roll the injector from 3 to 1. ;Reset code
6) Check signal wire to COP 3.
7) Do a compression check on cylinder 3.
The whole objective is to roll the problem from pos 3 to pos 1, and weed the problem out.
If the problem seems to disappear, be patient, keep COP cover off, keep engine dry, and put 100-150 miles
of highway and city driving (Ford drive cycle).
Last edited by danielsatur; 10-17-2009 at 09:55 PM.
#5
10-17-2009, 08:10 PM
Per JTIS, this is the cylinder layout:
The right-hand cylinders are numbered 5,3,1 and the left-hand cylinders are numbered 6,4,2 when viewed from the rear of the engine
Based on this the #3 cylinder would be the middle right one.
Here is some info from JTIS that hopefully will help:
P0303 EMS
OBD II
Misfire detected – cylinder 3
*Refer to Misfire Note, page 6
Misfire monitor drive cycle –
page 6
1 or 2* N None — Refer to P0300 Possible
P0300 EMS
OBD II
Random misfire detected
*Refer to Misfire Note, page 6
Misfire monitor drive cycle –
page 6
1 or 2* N None — ECM to ignition coil primary circuit fault
(Cylinder misfire detected DTC also
flagged)
Fuel injector circuit fault(s)
(Injector DTCs also flagged)
Ignition coil failure
Spark plug failure / fouled / incorrect gap
Cylinder compression low
Fuel delivery pressure (low / high)
Fuel injector(s) restricted / leaking
Fuel injector(s) continuously open
Fuel contamination
Worn camshaft / broken valve spring(s)
P0353 EMS
OBD II
Ignition module primary circuit
malfunction – cylinder 3
Start engine
Battery voltage > 12 volts
Idle for 2 minutes
2 A ECM Default:
– Bank 1 closed loop fuel
metering inhibited
– Bank 1 sub feedback control
inhibited
– Bank 1 adaptive fuel metering
inhibited
– Maximum engine speed
reduced
– Fuel injection cut off
(cylinder 3)
PI1
-088
ECM to ignition module primary circuit:
open circuit, short circuit to ground,
high resistance
Ignition module ground circuit:
open circuit, high resistance
Ignition module / coil failure
JTIS diagnosis page 6 info
MISFIRE MONITOR DRIVE CYCLE
1 Record flagged DTC (s) and accompanying WDS DTC Monitor freeze frame(s) data.
2 Fuel level > 25%.
3 Start the engine at a coolant temperature lower than the recorded freeze frame value (from Step 1).
4 Drive the vehicle to the recorded freeze frame conditions for 4 minutes. If CHECK ENGINE MIL flashes, lower the engine speed until the flashing stops.
Note regarding misfire monitor DTCs:
If, on the first trip, the misfire is severe enough to cause excess exhaust emission, the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1316 will be logged. The CHECK ENGINE MIL
will not be activated. If the fault reoccurs on the second trip, the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1316 will be flagged, and the CHECK ENGINE MIL will be activated.
If, on the first trip, the misfire is severe enough to cause catalyst damage (more severe than excess exhaust emission), the CHECK ENGINE MIL will flash while the
fault is present and the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1313 (bank 1), DTC P1314 (bank 2) will be logged. When the fault is no longer present the MIL will be deactivated.
Hopefully this will help:
Mike
The right-hand cylinders are numbered 5,3,1 and the left-hand cylinders are numbered 6,4,2 when viewed from the rear of the engine
Based on this the #3 cylinder would be the middle right one.
Here is some info from JTIS that hopefully will help:
P0303 EMS
OBD II
Misfire detected – cylinder 3
*Refer to Misfire Note, page 6
Misfire monitor drive cycle –
page 6
1 or 2* N None — Refer to P0300 Possible
P0300 EMS
OBD II
Random misfire detected
*Refer to Misfire Note, page 6
Misfire monitor drive cycle –
page 6
1 or 2* N None — ECM to ignition coil primary circuit fault
(Cylinder misfire detected DTC also
flagged)
Fuel injector circuit fault(s)
(Injector DTCs also flagged)
Ignition coil failure
Spark plug failure / fouled / incorrect gap
Cylinder compression low
Fuel delivery pressure (low / high)
Fuel injector(s) restricted / leaking
Fuel injector(s) continuously open
Fuel contamination
Worn camshaft / broken valve spring(s)
P0353 EMS
OBD II
Ignition module primary circuit
malfunction – cylinder 3
Start engine
Battery voltage > 12 volts
Idle for 2 minutes
2 A ECM Default:
– Bank 1 closed loop fuel
metering inhibited
– Bank 1 sub feedback control
inhibited
– Bank 1 adaptive fuel metering
inhibited
– Maximum engine speed
reduced
– Fuel injection cut off
(cylinder 3)
PI1
-088
ECM to ignition module primary circuit:
open circuit, short circuit to ground,
high resistance
Ignition module ground circuit:
open circuit, high resistance
Ignition module / coil failure
JTIS diagnosis page 6 info
MISFIRE MONITOR DRIVE CYCLE
1 Record flagged DTC (s) and accompanying WDS DTC Monitor freeze frame(s) data.
2 Fuel level > 25%.
3 Start the engine at a coolant temperature lower than the recorded freeze frame value (from Step 1).
4 Drive the vehicle to the recorded freeze frame conditions for 4 minutes. If CHECK ENGINE MIL flashes, lower the engine speed until the flashing stops.
Note regarding misfire monitor DTCs:
If, on the first trip, the misfire is severe enough to cause excess exhaust emission, the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1316 will be logged. The CHECK ENGINE MIL
will not be activated. If the fault reoccurs on the second trip, the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1316 will be flagged, and the CHECK ENGINE MIL will be activated.
If, on the first trip, the misfire is severe enough to cause catalyst damage (more severe than excess exhaust emission), the CHECK ENGINE MIL will flash while the
fault is present and the individual cylinder DTC plus DTC P1313 (bank 1), DTC P1314 (bank 2) will be logged. When the fault is no longer present the MIL will be deactivated.
Hopefully this will help:
Mike
#6
10-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Hi guys I got my hands on the JTIS CD from ebay and as pointed out in a previous post, my cylinder numbering is: (year 2000 V6)
Transmission
3 6
2 5
1 4
FAN
Yes I have had problems with water leaking into the engine compartment and yes I did just get the car washed !
By the way, the valve cover gaskets and spark plug boss were also replaced, so unlikely that oil can be causing a short.
Since all six ignition coils have recently been replaced, I will check an easy one to reach like #4 and verify if the mechanic put any dielectric grease on it. (JTIS says that some dielectric grease should be applied) If there is none there then I am sure there will be none at cylinder #3
Perhaps the misfire code and the possible "primary circuit failure" code are the result of water leaks and poorly insulated connections.
Transmission
3 6
2 5
1 4
FAN
Yes I have had problems with water leaking into the engine compartment and yes I did just get the car washed !
By the way, the valve cover gaskets and spark plug boss were also replaced, so unlikely that oil can be causing a short.
Since all six ignition coils have recently been replaced, I will check an easy one to reach like #4 and verify if the mechanic put any dielectric grease on it. (JTIS says that some dielectric grease should be applied) If there is none there then I am sure there will be none at cylinder #3
Perhaps the misfire code and the possible "primary circuit failure" code are the result of water leaks and poorly insulated connections.
#7
10-18-2009, 12:06 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bingo! ,you washed your car.
1) Remove COP #3.
2) Dry COP #3 and Spark plug boss with a Hair dryer.
3) Connect COP # 3 ;Reset code
4) Restart car and take her for ride, a'' Ford drive cycle''.
5) How does she run now?
6) Look at the electrical ignition buss lines for the COP's, the water likes to run along
into the rear of COP cover.
7) Apply RTV intake sealent around the COP cover and around the buss line that pokes into the cover.
These Cats are like boats with holes, see Boot (trunk) & Bonnet (hood) leaks.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=893556
Good Job young Grasshopper, try to keep her dry unitl water problem fix.
LOL- BY using new COP's, there was no DNA rust residue on COP rubber boot, the engine hot evaporated some of the water evidence.
Caution - Only use a little grease, don't provide a path from the terminal of spark plug to ground, we could
cause a misfire like a water or oil in the spark plug boss.
1) Remove COP #3.
2) Dry COP #3 and Spark plug boss with a Hair dryer.
3) Connect COP # 3 ;Reset code
4) Restart car and take her for ride, a'' Ford drive cycle''.
5) How does she run now?
6) Look at the electrical ignition buss lines for the COP's, the water likes to run along
into the rear of COP cover.
7) Apply RTV intake sealent around the COP cover and around the buss line that pokes into the cover.
These Cats are like boats with holes, see Boot (trunk) & Bonnet (hood) leaks.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=893556
Good Job young Grasshopper, try to keep her dry unitl water problem fix.
LOL- BY using new COP's, there was no DNA rust residue on COP rubber boot, the engine hot evaporated some of the water evidence.
Caution - Only use a little grease, don't provide a path from the terminal of spark plug to ground, we could
cause a misfire like a water or oil in the spark plug boss.
Last edited by danielsatur; 10-18-2009 at 06:12 PM.
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#8
04-30-2010, 11:43 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
new member with 1996 van dan plas
I may be in the wrong area here..My van dan plas is back in the shop for it's 2nd ignition coil. A few questions about the post here..What does 'roll over' mean? One of the posts mentioned rolling over the COP? .Why is #3 coil the starting place for the diagnostics? How do you tell if it is another?
How do you reset the code? Can the failure of one lead to the next one going?? (the shop is replacing the coil fixed a few months ago). And finally I think I saw that someone had found another coil (not jaguar) cheaper which will work? She shop is quoting $300 per which is outrageous, I can get them cheaper online, but they won't install if I purchase. Maybe next time with everyone's help here, I will be smart enough to fix it myself. thanks!!
How do you reset the code? Can the failure of one lead to the next one going?? (the shop is replacing the coil fixed a few months ago). And finally I think I saw that someone had found another coil (not jaguar) cheaper which will work? She shop is quoting $300 per which is outrageous, I can get them cheaper online, but they won't install if I purchase. Maybe next time with everyone's help here, I will be smart enough to fix it myself. thanks!!
#9
05-01-2010, 07:55 AM
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