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STYPE doesn't start / No power to fuel pump

 
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:27 PM
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Default STYPE doesn't start / No power to fuel pump

Hello !

I found a 2002 STYPE, 4.2L V8 petrol engine with 300 000 miles, the car stopped at a traffic light and the engine doesn't start anymore...

I'm trying to rescue it...

So, I've changed the fuel pump, checked most of relays and fuses (they are good), checked the inertia switch (it works).

Before and after having changed the fuel pump, the fuel pump isn't spinning when i'm turning the key to position II before ignition.

The engine cranks well, but no fuel is sent to the engine, nothing happens...

We tried to power up the fuel pump with an external power to send fuel to the ramp and the engine, then trying to start the engine (It still persist, the engine doesn't start...)

Any idea ???

I'm 21 years old, and I'm from France, i do apologize if there are grammar mistakes...

Regards,
 
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Old 06-11-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey_ml View Post
We tried to power up the fuel pump with an external power to send fuel to the ramp and the engine, then trying to start the engine (It still persist, the engine doesn't start...)
Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about your English, it is perfectly fine.

Do I understand correctly this is a project car? Sounds like a previous owner gave up on it after it stalled at a traffic light. Was any other work done in addition to the new pump you installed?

What happened when you tried to power the fuel pump from an external source? Did the pump make any noise? Did the pump run? You didn't specify what it did.
 
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:48 PM
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Thanks !!!

Well I've been advised of this car by a friend !!

If I can't start it before the end of the week (On Friday) the car will be blasted

I connected the pump to an external source of power yes and the pump is working ! (it spins)

I haven't tried anything else than what I wrote in my first message

I believe to hear the V8 run again, even if the car as got 300 000 miles, needs a good clean up, it looks so great..

 
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:56 PM
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I forgot !!

When I tried the fuel pump from an external power, the fuel might went to the engine, right ?

After it spins about 20 seconds, I tried to start the car, but nothing, the engine cranks but it doesn't start...

Then I disconnected the fuel pump of the external power and connected it back as it was, hoping to make it work, turned the key to position II before ignition and the fuel pump still not working...
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey_ml View Post
I connected the pump to an external source of power yes and the pump is working ! (it spins)
On the engine, connect a mechanical pressure gauge to the fuel injector rail. This is the common pipe that feeds all of the fuel injectors. There should be a test port that looks like a tire stem.

With the fuel pump hot-wired as mentioned above, see what the test gauge reads at the injector rail. I want to rule out a clogged fuel filter, loose line in the tank, etc.

I also wonder if the original fault was simply a failed fuel pump, which you've replaced. However, somewhere in the process, the security system was accidentally triggered. Under some circumstances, the security system inhibits the fuel pump and injector commands. So even with the pump jury-rigged to run, the injectors may not be active.

More details here, post #60, including how to test if the security system has been triggered, thinking a theft has been attempted:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...3/#post1876674

You can determine the security system status by watching the small red light at the base of the windshield.
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:41 AM
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When I'll be back from work, I'll take a look about the security system PATS (with the red light flashing or not)

I do not have a a mechanical pressure gauge, however I I push the "valve" with somethinh I'll might be able to hear a "Pssssht" if there is pression...

Well I think it sounds like a security feature or something close to... (The fact of having the fuel pump not working and bypassing it by pushing fuel to the injectors with an external power isn't make the engine start ..)
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey_ml View Post
Well I think it sounds like a security feature or something close to... (The fact of having the fuel pump not working and bypassing it by pushing fuel to the injectors with an external power isn't make the engine start ..)
I agree, this scenario would make the most sense. Here's a quick description of how the light should behave when all is good:

First, lock the car with the key fob. Press the lock button a second time to set the alarm system. The horn should chirp once. Watch the little red light. It should flash once every 3 seconds or so to show the security system is armed. Now press the key fob unlock button twice to unlock all the doors. The red light should go out. Sit in the driver's seat and turn the key to RUN (Not start yet). The red light should come on solid ONCE for about 3 seconds and then go out. If it flashes anything after that, you've got a stored code, which usually prevents the engine from starting.

Re: Testing the fuel pressure. Don't read too much into the presence of pressure if you don't have a mechanical gauge. You can determine a total lack of pressure, but that's about it. If you have some pressure, there's no way to know how much without a gauge. 5 psi, which is way too low, will probably seem about the same as the correct pressure, somewhere around 45 psi ( don't quote me on that number). I don't want you to be misled if you find some pressure, but have no way of really knowing if it is within specifications.

I haven't mentioned it yet, but make sure the battery is fully charged. These cars are very sensitive to low prestart voltage. I don't think a low battery is the root cause here, but you don't want to introduce any new problems while troubleshooting.
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:22 AM
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Thanks for you reply !

I'll be careful about the flashing light of the TAPS system !

For the pressure, I do not have a gauge pressure, I'll take care while trying

I'll keep you updated !
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:06 PM
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Thanks guys !

Well, it's not the Supercharged model...

It's the classic 4,2L V8.

I'm quite familiar with Jaguar, I'm the proud owner of a 1991 Daimler and a 1988 Sovereign both XJ40 !

So about this S-TYPE I've spent 2h30 on it today !

The PATS anti theft is working fine, the red light works as it should.

There's no spark while ignition, the fuel pump stays quiet, and there's no pressure into the fuel injectors...

Can it be the ECU ??
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:25 PM
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Well, to tell the truth, I must fix it before Friday, it's impossible, I leave my workplace at 06:00pm, starting at 09:00am...

The engine cranks good, battery is good ! (I charged it at home)

My bad !!! By "blasted" i wanted to say that the car will be compacted (destruction) and will go to car's graveyard

I think it was my last try today, i will call back the actual owner tomorrow to try to save few parts (such as owner book, leather Jaguar case and the wood gear knobe)
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey_ml View Post
I think it was my last try today, i will call back the actual owner tomorrow...
Now that's enough to make a grown man cry. Tell the owner if he doesn't let you investigate further, I will fly to France and slap him around. I'm an airline employee so can do this for free. Do you think you could convince him to pick me up at the airport? It would make the logistics so much easier...

I highly doubt the ECU is at fault. It's easy to fear this expensive part, but it usually is not the problem. We have a hard fault, so troubleshooting is fairly easy. It's not like chasing an intermittent fault that comes and goes. The limited timeframe is very frustrating, because we could walk you through the wiring diagrams and have you check for power at various points, testing relays to see if they click when actuated, etc. Nothing too outrageous, and we'd be almost guaranteed to find the root cause without much expense. But unfortunately, it won't happen instantly due to the long distance nature of troubleshooting online.

We don't know for sure that the injectors are not operating, but are working on that assumption. This seems likely, and could be confirmed using a noid light at an injector connector.

For now, if you have access to the car again, please check fuse #4 in the primary junction box. This is a small, hidden fuse panel, just outboard of the US passenger's feet. It's forward of the hinge area for the right front door. If this fuse were to blow, you would lose power to many circuits, including the fuel pump and all of the injectors. It's a very important fuse.

If you were to replace it and it blows again, that's still not a huge deal. This fuse powers several relays, so one of them is probably drawing too much current. Again, this is a fairly simple fix, just a matter of figuring out which relay it was.

Wiring diagrams are here, with the V8 fuel pump and injectors on figure 03.2:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...x2032002en.pdf

If you're not familiar with how to follow a circuit between pages, we can walk you through that.
 
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:30 PM
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Ahahahaha !!

Oh really ? I'm a private pilot !! (I'm flying on Cessna 172 et Piper-Arrow 28)

I go back to the car at the end of the day !

Yeah I understand, you guys are very very nice to help me a lot and so quickly ! A big thanks !!!

About the ECU it's the last component we would suspect, so.

I've checked fuses in my engine compartment and into the luggage, I know that there is a fuse box, just at our feet, driver side, I checked some of them into that box but not all of them !
I'll take a look at fuse #4

I'm wondering, as I'm having no power coil, can the crankshaft sensor can also cut the power of the fuel pump ???
 

Last edited by Geoffrey_ml; 06-13-2019 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:31 AM
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I found an OBD Code Reader !!

I'll keep you update tonight !!
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:43 AM
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Have you checked the inertia switch? Down in the left hand side a-pillar?


 
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:02 AM
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I wrote it in my first message !

I tested the inertia switch and it works well !
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:12 AM
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How Can I diconnect the ECU ?

I found it but If I pull, it doesn't disconnect

 
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:34 PM
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I'm Back !!!

Tonight it was quick, I bought an ODB Reader (ANCEL AD310) and there's no faulty code after the check...

I took a look to the Crankshaft sensors, they look good, if I've got time tomorrow i'll take a look to them with my ohm / volt meter...

I'm also wondering bout the ignition lock, the steering column is well unlocked when the key is inserted, but can it cut off the ignition and the fuel pump if it is faulty ?

I do not have any key symbol on the dashboard, I think it's good...
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:42 PM
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The crankshaft sensors are here, right ?

 
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey_ml View Post
The crankshaft sensors are here, right ?

No, those are the valve timing solenoids...go to jagrepair.com and there is a ton of info and you can download the shop manual
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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Bad news !!!

It seems that the sensor is at the rear of the engine (Figure N3), quite impossible to reach for me
 

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