I've used this before several years ago but I seem to be at a dead end this morning.

I need something very basic here.

It loads on my XP machine and I've navigated the index to the section I need but when I click on it it highlights but does nothing.

This is a very oddly designed application so I figure I much be doing something incredibly dumb?

Click all I want but it just will not open anything up any further.

What am I missing?

 

I'm not sure how but it is displaying the information now????

I tried a search and when that finally opened the index then stuff displays but if you select the index directly it doesn't display anything.

Weird ...

 

It may help to bear in mind it is VERY old. Discontinued in 2004 I think, and I suppose created very long before then. Only aimed at people specifically trained in its use.

I suppose the alternatives are:
1. PDF - costs a little money, is huge
2. ALLData / Mitchell /etc - cost money
3. Jaguar's TOPIx - the most expensive

I like the JTIS price.

 

Don't forget to mention those points next time you recommend JTIS.

 

I recommend it because it covers almost every detail of our cars and the price is excellent. For future cars from about every make you're gonna be paying - and for some of them a HUGE price. (Jag's TOPIX is at the "cheaper" end of the scale.)

A dated user interface is nothing as compared to the alternatives.

 

It's a bit more than a dated interface.

It's a horrid design. This is what I did for a living, NO not horrid designs LOL

Very unintuitive which is why I poked around for over a half an hour before it started displaying information.

I'm still not sure what I did to make start displaying? I think that's a bug?

I did help me find out that removal of the wheel was not required so that's good.

But it's also typical of earlier computerized systems documentation. A rigid format strong on structure and very light on content. Terse single sentence descriptions. Photos of the actual parts instead of crude graphics might have been nice too.

It all cost money to build.

It wasn't intended for weekend warrior mechanics either.
Not even for proficient computer systems designers!

I bet the Jag maintenance people hated it.

 

I think it was made by an outside firm and that no-one loved it, not even the firm. But various other systems I've seen have been about as bad - some worse, some marginally better. I guess trainee mechanics (main dealers) may try to use it whereas the most an already trained mechanic (who didn't already know the car) would do would be to look at the main steps for a process. Which it mostly does provide. It's definitely not aimed at anyone not part of the dealer network.

I used TOPIX for a while but can't say I liked it much more. Maybe just a personal thing.

The worst thing about almost all the car maker's systems is that they require Windows and IE, and usually are picky about which versions of each.

Oh, no, the worst thing is the price of most of them. As I recall BMW is outrageous, virtually unaffordable even for a shop.

Over here we have (had) Haynes manuals, supposedly aimed at the DIYer but I found them no better and in some cases worse. There isn't one for the S-Type.

 

Telling us what information you were looking for.........

Graham

 

It's not intuitive but the best thing next to sliced bread (or close enough). Just
a) select Model from Service button
b) click on the pictures around the center picture to navigate down to details and you can navigate back by clicking on center picture - alternatively use the Text navigator button at bottom (second to last). I find this easiest to use and expand on the different sections as needed by clicking and expanding the + signs and then clicking on the subject lines. Click on the the blue arrows to view the diagrams
c) use Global Search from the Search drop-down menu in conjuction with Text Navigator to get to sections I want to check out


It's a bit clunky to use, but those diagrams and specific instructions are generally very clear and extremely useful.

 

Yes I went through the pictures.

I believe the bug is that you can get to the index directly without doing a search first. The search is pretty horrible as well. If you skip the search then when you click on what you'd like to see it does absolutely nothing. I'm not sure why. That or perhaps it was the XP installation process not being complete until a reboot?

So I did the simplest of searches as a test because searching for the exact item I wanted using their exact naming standards yielded nothing.

Then when I did this and had some search results the index appeared and when I selected stuff it did display the information properly.

Just an annoying bug that's easily run into if you approach the software intuitively for the first time or on a very occasional basis. But it really did not display the info as it does now.

Silly boy ... LOL

I would characterize the diagrams and supporting text as sparse but in this case it did answer the basic question about whether I had to remove the wheel so I am a happy camper in that regard.

But there's nothing about how you remove the upper column shroud or the multifunction switch, just an admonition to "do it". Hopefully it's obvious when I get to that point and doesn't involve double secret mysterious fragile plastic connectors ...

 

Some of the older service and parts manuals for my Italian cars are just so much more informative - no computers to generate tones of structure but precious little content for lazy documentation folks ...

But computerized indexes and database can be terribly useful as well.
I guess it all comes down to how dedicated the company is to the quality of their manuals.

 

We can grumble all we like but it is what it is and it isn't going to change, so you either have to learn to live with it or find an alternative.

My experience of Alldata is that they have pretty much lifted all the JTIS info and repackaged it into a not much improved format.

 

I've had my 2004 edition JTIS CD ROM since early June 2009. I bought it off eBay for $6. Yes, it is poorly designed and haphazardly organized. Yes, it is cumbersome to use. Yes, I only use it when I have to. But the price was miniscule and the information it contains has helped me considerably on multiple occasions for both of our Jaguars....

I remain completely convinced that the key to having successful experiences using JTIS is to spend significant time playing with it and therefore learning its capabilities WELL BEFORE you ever need it for a significant repair. Like any other software product, it is only as good as you are in your knowledge of how to navigate through it. That comes with time and practice, preferably when you are not in an emergency repair situation with your vehicle....

 

Folks getting perhaps a bit sensitive?

Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

The JEPC is a whole lot better IMHO.

I've only had to use these two a couple of times so maybe I've been blessed?

1. Speedo repair.

2. Removal, installation & procurement of the brushed metal facia panels.

3. Now the turn signal stalk.

 

If it's the only pig in town it could start to look pretty good!

 

I probably use both JTIS and JEPC a lot more than most here on the forum and whilst neither are particularly good software, both hold an enormous amount of invaluable information. They certainly repay the time and effort involved in learning to use them. Wading through a PDF Workshop Manual for my current XK is a whole lot harder than navigating JTIS for the equivalent processes on the previous model.

It must be remembered that these applications were developed for use by the Jaguar Dealer network and were never intended for the amateur mechanic. Basic procedures familiar to trained technicians aren't included because they don't need them.

JTIS was superseded by Jaguar in 2005 and nine year old software is inevitably going to feel archaic by current standards. JEPC is designed to run connected to Jaguar servers so any unofficial offline copy will be restricted in certain data streams and fail for some functions.

Graham

 

LOL

Well if you only frequent the pig farm I suppose that could happen.

I know it's our only source but as someone spent 30 years designing and building software beginning in the late 1970s and has seen a ton of applications on PCs both for the frequent user and the casual user this one is a complete pig. You can design for both sorts of users at the same time. I've done that plenty of times.

The reason I get a bit incensed is because I know it doesn't have to be this way. Lots of software worked very well and slickly many years ago.It didn't just appear with the advent of the internet. This was put together by incompetents who were clueless about design.

If this was a car we were talking about I think you guys would be more incensed.

Anyway enough already ...

 

It's not the only one. Try the others and then use the one you like.

Costs money, but not much, and apparently you feel strongly. Must therefore be worth a few $$$

 

Too right. JTIS was probably OK for Jag techies, but it's not in the best interest of Jag's dealers to have Joe Everyone doing their own maintenance. JTIS must have been designed with this objective in mind.

 

2003 2008 Jaguar s Type X200 Workshop Repair Service Manual on CD | eBay

I got this one and it is more up to date. Like most, not perfect but better than JTIS especially for us with newer cars than 04.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321087431965...84.m1497.l2649