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Idiots Jag engineers.

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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 11:51 AM
  #1  
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Default Idiots Jag engineers.

ECM connector is attached by 5-point torx bolt with center post.
WHY?????? Morons!
I spent about 40 min removing the bolt. I had to break top connector cover and use vise grips.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 11:56 AM
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Why don't you get the correct security Torx bit and just unscrew it?
.
.
.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 11:57 AM
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I went to pepboys and got a bit.

What's the problem?
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 12:13 PM
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There is only a problem for those who go about it in a rather ... er, idiotic? ... way.

Almost no-one has needed to remove the PCM. I wonder why this one has been removed?
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by car5car
ECM connector is attached by 5-point torx bolt with center post.
WHY?????? Morons!
I spent about 40 min removing the bolt. I had to break top connector cover and use vise grips.
Thank you!
This is quite possibly the richest printed statement I've read in over 15 years when one of my sons, a wee lad at the time, posted a note about his sister on the fridge, "Hannah is stoopit and she can't spel!"
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 12:39 PM
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May be it was used to keep some, AHEM morons from removing it(?).
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8
There is only a problem for those who go about it in a rather ... er, idiotic? ... way.

Almost no-one has needed to remove the PCM. I wonder why this one has been removed?
I thought I had to take mine out, turned out I didn't.

Tell us what's up with the car.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:20 PM
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I'll try to answer all questions.
I was repairing cars for 20 years and never needed to remove bolt like that. I am pretty sure, nobody sells a tool for it because Jag is probably the only manufacturer using it.
ECM is the last thing thieves want to steal, so there is no need to install security bolt.
I need to remove this connector because TCM is not "talking" to ECM, so I need to check wires before replacing TCM, which same idiots engineers attached to valve body. Dealers don't sell TCM w/o valve body, I don't want to call a dealer about price. If TCM is bad I'll have to buy used transmission.
I called Advance auto and Autozone, they don't have them.
I found one on Walmart website, I could order it and get it in a week or so. that would be a smart way, right?
CTA Tools 9684 5-pt Tamper Torx Socket - T20 - Walmart.com
 
Attached Thumbnails Idiots Jag engineers.-img_0570.jpg   Idiots Jag engineers.-img_0571.jpg  

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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:34 PM
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Pepboys keep them.

I expect you have checked the plug on the side of the transmission?

The ZF tranny idiots will be different ones from the Jag ECM idiots.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by car5car
ECM is the last thing thieves want to steal, so there is no need to install security bolt.

The engineers weren't worried about thieves, the concern is protecting the integrity of the connections to the ECM. Without that, the car is a very expensive brick, so they took pains to make sure that only somebody with the proper tools and knowledge would risk disconnecting it.

The good news is that security bits are now readily available so that part of the equation is taken care of. The other good news is that ECM and TCM are hardly ever the problem. It's so rare that you should assume it's something else. Checking the wiring and connectors is a good start, make sure all of your earth/ground connections are clean, and look out for corrosion hindering the signals. Just take your time and be careful.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Norri
Pepboys keep them.

I expect you have checked the plug on the side of the transmission?

The ZF tranny idiots will be different ones from the Jag ECM idiots.
ZF connector was easy to remove.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac Allan
The engineers weren't worried about thieves, the concern is protecting the integrity of the connections to the ECM. Without that, the car is a very expensive brick, so they took pains to make sure that only somebody with the proper tools and knowledge would risk disconnecting it.

The good news is that security bits are now readily available so that part of the equation is taken care of. The other good news is that ECM and TCM are hardly ever the problem. It's so rare that you should assume it's something else. Checking the wiring and connectors is a good start, make sure all of your earth/ground connections are clean, and look out for corrosion hindering the signals. Just take your time and be careful.
Thanks! I hope so. Don't really want to go to to junk yard and remove transmission. Mileage is pretty low, about 130K, hopefully transmission is OK, I don't like rebuilding transmissions.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 01:55 PM
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I was going to suggest the possibility of Jag using such a fastener as part of 'idiot proofing' by the OEM but such efforts have always just dissuaded average and below average idiots.

Back in my engine OEM working career, it was blatantly obvious in reviewing component removal statistics from the field and without looking at actual confirmed failure rates, which widgets were the easiest to remove. The ones with the fewest, easiest to remove fasteners always got blamed for engine problems.

The awkward hard to get at part was almost never removed, despite the troubleshooting instructions that clearly made it #1 suspect.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 02:12 PM
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TCM wiring check
b+
ign+
2 grounds
2 can wires
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 02:18 PM
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Ford use the same PCM fastening.

I guess you never worked on any of those rare cars.

What codes are you getting all the time?
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 02:49 PM
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TCM not communicating with ECM (CAN problem)
I hope you like picture of "upgraded" bolt.
 

Last edited by car5car; Jan 27, 2016 at 02:51 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 03:04 PM
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Yellow wire is broken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope this is the reason I bought the car so cheap.
 
Attached Thumbnails Idiots Jag engineers.-can-jag-diagram.jpg  

Last edited by car5car; Jan 27, 2016 at 03:17 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 04:37 PM
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Did that fix your problem?
.
.
.
 
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Old Jan 27, 2016 | 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8
Ford use the same PCM fastening.

I guess you never worked on any of those rare cars.
I usually repair 10-years old cars/bikes and older. I had X-type, but it had knocking engine (bad crank), nothing wrong with computers or sensors. I repaired crank.
 
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Old Jan 28, 2016 | 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird6
Did that fix your problem?
It seems like problem is gone, no transmission codes. I need to check/add transmission fluid and drive it.
So, who is the best Jaguar mechanic in the world?
This is second car with CAN problem which I bought dirt cheap. First one was Jeep Grand Cherokee, where door window switch messed up whole CAN system.
 

Last edited by car5car; Jan 28, 2016 at 10:34 AM.
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