Crank Pulley Bolt snapped - new block?! Jaguar XKR 5.0L
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Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Kaysville, Utah, US
Nope, I still won't do it.
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Joined: Jul 2015
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From: Durham ON., nice rural area.
Good morning,
I have been following this thread with interest, often have "difficulty" in starting some big jobs myself in case something like this goes wrong..
Modern engines are so efficient but often so difficult to work on, all this just to replace a head gasket, unbelievable!
You could take the heads off of the old V12 motor without touching the crank and the 4 V belts, ask me how I know..
Don't folks change timing chains on the 4.2s without too much trouble?
My 4.2 manual lists heads as removable without removing the motor, the 5.0 must be different?
Something does not look right here though, I would expect the broken bolt to be quite easily removable, but does it not also look as if they have been attacking the end of the crank / pulley/hub with a hammer??
What an expensive nightmare... makes any pushrod motor seem so simple..
Hope it works out ok..
Regards
Trevor T
I have been following this thread with interest, often have "difficulty" in starting some big jobs myself in case something like this goes wrong..
Modern engines are so efficient but often so difficult to work on, all this just to replace a head gasket, unbelievable!
You could take the heads off of the old V12 motor without touching the crank and the 4 V belts, ask me how I know..
Don't folks change timing chains on the 4.2s without too much trouble?
My 4.2 manual lists heads as removable without removing the motor, the 5.0 must be different?
Something does not look right here though, I would expect the broken bolt to be quite easily removable, but does it not also look as if they have been attacking the end of the crank / pulley/hub with a hammer??
What an expensive nightmare... makes any pushrod motor seem so simple..
Hope it works out ok..
Regards
Trevor T
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Joined: Feb 2016
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From: coranado, CA
Being a new member on this forum, but having the education of an aerospace engineer, I would go to any site that provides extractors for the industry and purchase the proper tool. Too many posts on this topic with op-ed guidance will confuse you.
If the shop doesnt want to buy the tool, then bring the engine home and diy
If the shop tells you the task cant be done , then the shop is looking to gouge you
If the shop doesnt want to buy the tool, then bring the engine home and diy
If the shop tells you the task cant be done , then the shop is looking to gouge you
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Joined: May 2014
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From: San Francisco, CA
Searching for posts while looking at rebuilding my XF 5.0 SC engine (don't ask) brought me across this thread.
I know it's old, but I have to reply - in my reading over the 5.0 workshop manual it's clear there were two types of crank pulley bolts used on the AJ133 engine - one is reverse-threaded, the other isn't. Amazing design, right?
You have to check what's printed on the bolt - if it has 10.9 printed on the head of the bolt, it must be removed counter-clockwise, and if it has 12.9 printed on the head, it must be removed clockwise.
People earlier mentioned the rust on the bolt but I rather suspect the mechanic got this one the wrong way round.
I know it's old, but I have to reply - in my reading over the 5.0 workshop manual it's clear there were two types of crank pulley bolts used on the AJ133 engine - one is reverse-threaded, the other isn't. Amazing design, right?
You have to check what's printed on the bolt - if it has 10.9 printed on the head of the bolt, it must be removed counter-clockwise, and if it has 12.9 printed on the head, it must be removed clockwise.
People earlier mentioned the rust on the bolt but I rather suspect the mechanic got this one the wrong way round.
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 769
Likes: 107
From: Vancouver, B.C.
I have used many an extractor and at times even the best extractors prove to be futile. If the bolt is snapped flush with the surface I have had luck by welding a smaller diameter bolt to the broken bolt and wrenching on the welded bolt to extract the broken one.
Certainly the shop's responsibility to research the tech manual prior to working on a vehicle.
Good thing is you can extract the bolt. You need a center punch, center drill, and left handed possibly 3/8" bit. Hopefully , if they didn't over torque it too much , the bolt will break free and and back out.
Good thing is you can extract the bolt. You need a center punch, center drill, and left handed possibly 3/8" bit. Hopefully , if they didn't over torque it too much , the bolt will break free and and back out.
Hi Guys,
It's a shame my first post is one of bad news but hoping to get some advice from some experts as I can see there is a lot of information here.
My car is a Jaguar XKR 5.0L supercharged 2011.
Recently I had issues with smoke from one side of the exhaust and have put it down to a headgasket failure. Symptoms were loss of coolant so car overheating and the smoke (but it would go away after car warmed up). Now to replace the headgasket, I believe it's an engine out job so I got a company who looks after my Nissan GT-R to do this job (they work on many japanese but not many v8's/v10's). I trust the company as they have done many forged engine builds and my current GTR is running 850BHP with no issues and forged internals.
Anyway, the reason I am posting is after removing the engine (and getting the tools to do so), they were removing the crank pulley bolt (excuse me if I got the wrong terminology) and I was told the bolt snapped off after a high amount of torque was put on - it simply would not budge. I have done some research and I can see the older XKR's had a similar issue with a stiff bolt BUT can't see much for the X150.
I have attached a picture of the damage. I am not told that the crank is damaged and it is cheaper to buy a short motor (block, pistons, rods, crankshaft) than the crank which is around £2k whilst block etc is £3k.
What I'm not happy about is I was not told there was a risk in damaging the bolt and I'm being asked to fork up.
I would like to know:
1. Could this have been avoided, if so what should have been done and
2. Should the garage be asking me to pay for this when they broke the bolt?! I did not sign a waiver or anything.
Not had the car for 2 months now and getting frustrated.
I would like to keep this conversation related to the bolt snapping and whether garage should be liable NOT why I took it to a none specialist (I tried two in the UK and neither wanted the job lol). Thanks in advance guys.
Buzz
It's a shame my first post is one of bad news but hoping to get some advice from some experts as I can see there is a lot of information here.
My car is a Jaguar XKR 5.0L supercharged 2011.
Recently I had issues with smoke from one side of the exhaust and have put it down to a headgasket failure. Symptoms were loss of coolant so car overheating and the smoke (but it would go away after car warmed up). Now to replace the headgasket, I believe it's an engine out job so I got a company who looks after my Nissan GT-R to do this job (they work on many japanese but not many v8's/v10's). I trust the company as they have done many forged engine builds and my current GTR is running 850BHP with no issues and forged internals.
Anyway, the reason I am posting is after removing the engine (and getting the tools to do so), they were removing the crank pulley bolt (excuse me if I got the wrong terminology) and I was told the bolt snapped off after a high amount of torque was put on - it simply would not budge. I have done some research and I can see the older XKR's had a similar issue with a stiff bolt BUT can't see much for the X150.
I have attached a picture of the damage. I am not told that the crank is damaged and it is cheaper to buy a short motor (block, pistons, rods, crankshaft) than the crank which is around £2k whilst block etc is £3k.
What I'm not happy about is I was not told there was a risk in damaging the bolt and I'm being asked to fork up.
I would like to know:
1. Could this have been avoided, if so what should have been done and
2. Should the garage be asking me to pay for this when they broke the bolt?! I did not sign a waiver or anything.
Not had the car for 2 months now and getting frustrated.
I would like to keep this conversation related to the bolt snapping and whether garage should be liable NOT why I took it to a none specialist (I tried two in the UK and neither wanted the job lol). Thanks in advance guys.
Buzz
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Ormond Beach FL
In addition to heat, hammering the head, and then penetrating oil; I often will try to break the threads loose by using a sharp impact first clockwise and then counterclockwise using an electric impact wrench that is pretty weak compared to the air guns. I'm not trying move the threads, just break them loose. In the case of highly torqued larger bolts like this one I might go through the same sequence two or three times before actually trying to unscrew the threads with a levered breaker bar.
I also agree that bolts shear more because of a strained constant load as opposed to sharp twisting impacts. Which is why I try to go back and forth before using a constant heavy counterclockwise torque.
I also agree that bolts shear more because of a strained constant load as opposed to sharp twisting impacts. Which is why I try to go back and forth before using a constant heavy counterclockwise torque.
Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 53
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From: Houston
Get back to work. Lol... I read above also that they tell mechanics to use loc-tight on reassembly. Trying to remove without heat would have caused a problem too...but can loc-tight really cause a bolt to shear?
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: USA
Is there a starting VIN number when Jaguar went from clockwise to counter clockwise?
And while I'm at it, I'll ask the dumb question, why? Was this to solve an issue with crankshaft bolts coming loose?
Edit:
I see the change occurred in the 2010 models (beginning VIN B32753) and the torque spec went from 236 ft lbs to 148ft lbs +180 degrees).
I answered my first question but curious as to why the change on the 5.0 engine if you know.
Last edited by Sean W; Feb 24, 2017 at 09:45 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Houston
My guess would be to keep people from turning a clockwise bolt counter-clockwise. LOL
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From: Severna Park, MD
If I knew, the crankshaft bolt was that "stuck", I would have heated the center of the bolt. . In the past, I gotten away with an impact gun. That's a tuff break...Good luck with the repair.