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I see what he is saying.
You can spray a water/methanol combination (in my younger days we used windshield wiper fluid) into the intake, usually you use it as a sort of poor mans intercooler , the fluid converting to gas drains a lot of heat from the air charge.
In this case he is thinking that the solution might help to wash some of the carbon down.
I do know from engine tear downs that the water/meth injection sort of "steam cleans" the internals.
I'm pretty sure if you are spraying water/meth into the intake, it's benefits (removing carbon, not cooling) will be gone well before it hits the intake ports/valves, as it will probably be evaporated (I can't find the right word, this is probably wrong) before then (due to the hot supercharger that it needs to travel through first).
Now if you were able to spray it directly into the intake ports (like many other cars running meth) then you might see some improvement in carbon.
Now if you were able to spray it directly into the intake ports (like many other cars running meth) then you might see some improvement in carbon.
Not a bad idea at all. There's not a lot of room at all between the supercharger, oil cooler and inlet manifolds but I reckon you'd still have space to fit the injectors/pipes in to the manifold. Tight though!
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I'm not disputing the performance benefits of the water/meth injection. I thought this thread is about carbon fouling?
From the BMW N54 forums, it's pretty much been proven that water/meth wont clean existing carbon deposits, though it *may* have benefits for preventing them on a clean intake tract. (they are injecting directly into the throttle body and/or intake ports which don't have to pass through a hot supercharger or charge-cooler first).
uhm the air goes though the throttle body then the "hot supercharger" then into the hot after coolers then into the intake ports. It is the latent evaporation the helps to remove the heat in ALL these parts. Yes im aware its about carbon fouling but the statement/question was made. and As Jagular has already pointed out it is the oil laden crankcase vapor that runs into the air inlet before the throttle body that contributes the most to dirty throttles and valves not valve sealing. this is why if you ever pull up the "bathtub" intake on the NA engine youll find it is full of oil. I would look more into a quality oil separator for the full load breather pipe. it has a built in device in the cam cover to "somewhat" do this but is not adequate as is obvious.
Right, I completely understand the benefits (and how it works) of water/meth for performance. As I said, I was not disputing that. Yes it removes heat, yes it works in supercharged applications, I never said that it didn't.
My statements were 100% directed at the carbon fouling problem, and the question that water/meth may be a benefit for cleaning/keeping clean the intake ports and valves.
Originally Posted by Brutal
uhm the air goes though the throttle body then the "hot supercharger" then into the hot after coolers then into the intake ports. It is the latent evaporation the helps to remove the heat in ALL these parts. Yes im aware its about carbon fouling but the statement/question was made. and As Jagular has already pointed out it is the oil laden crankcase vapor that runs into the air inlet before the throttle body that contributes the most to dirty throttles and valves not valve sealing. this is why if you ever pull up the "bathtub" intake on the NA engine youll find it is full of oil. I would look more into a quality oil separator for the full load breather pipe. it has a built in device in the cam cover to "somewhat" do this but is not adequate as is obvious.
gents, 83,00 miles and doing some work with supercharger. i have access to view and hopefully clean the valve with all their deposits. every element is full of oil mist and subsequent puddling through all air intake parts. this is all from positive crankcase venting correct and the tube that runs to throttle body from one side and intake tube on other side? any ideas on the design intent of this setup? why so much oil coming up that way? worth installing a catch can / or even eliminating the PCV return to the intake and just take it "old school" through breather elements??? is there any positive benefit to the oil mist and crank vent air going back through engine? i doubt it. it's probably the source of black exhaust tips and such too. will engine throw code if PCV isn't recirculated?
obviously my focus here is future prevention. i'd also like to hear about thought on cleaning the valve in place. I've received pointers form Dave Tibbs and Bigg Will about their methods. Brake cleaner / carb cleaners and tooth brush or wire brush.
Can't comment on how the other forums members fared in their cleaning efforts, but I had my intake and S/C off recently and my valves were crusty (at 45,000). I tried the intake cleaner sprays and that worked the thin greasy film off, but the hardened on gunk was impossible to get out. I am having the intake valves shell blasted to get them cleaned up. Keeping them clean is the other issue as I also think that any spray into the throttle body will not help since it has to travel through so many other components...plus you will eventually delaminate the impeller coating. A direct port system is the only viable solution, but I will have to get creative and really study the available space. The curious thing is the different deposit patterns. Four of the intake walls were blackened with sliver colored valves...two were clean intake bodies and blacked valves. deposits all over...
same bank....different deposit pattern...why??
Last edited by Cherry_560sel; Oct 11, 2017 at 12:07 AM.
Just for the stats. My intake manifold had carbon buildup causing rough idle and MAF sensor code. Vehicle was at 74K miles.
This diagnosed by the jag technicians and they cleaned it for free. Car still idles rough sometimes.
Weird because I got a new 5.0 engine replacement and 10,000 miles later this issue happened. I asked how they said intake manifold wasn't replaced with the engine. Some parts are kept the same.
From reading this thread I am trying to determine what do I do to prevent this from happening or clean it? I also used to only fill my car with 91 no ethanol gas.
Someone mentioned a fuel additive does it cause harm to try?
Fuel additives have been debated to death here and elsewhere, and the general consensus is they won't do any harm, but neither will they do any good with cleaning up the inlet valves and intake manifolds because being a DI engine the fuel doesn't get anywhere near the backs of the inlet valves. They might help with cleaning up the fuel lines and injectors, but that's about it.
Just for the stats. My intake manifold had carbon buildup causing rough idle and MAF sensor code. Vehicle was at 74K miles.
This diagnosed by the jag technicians and they cleaned it for free. Car still idles rough sometimes.
Weird because I got a new 5.0 engine replacement and 10,000 miles later this issue happened. I asked how they said intake manifold wasn't replaced with the engine. Some parts are kept the same.
From reading this thread I am trying to determine what do I do to prevent this from happening or clean it? I also used to only fill my car with 91 no ethanol gas.
Someone mentioned a fuel additive does it cause harm to try?
only way to keep them clean is with port injection of either water/meth or n2O. The intake manifold wont allow a good cleaning using a spray cleaner into the intake or throttle body.
“They knew that detergent oils tended to have knock issues, and non-detergent oils tended to not have knock issues.”
“In the end, you end up with this third chemical which is neither fuel nor oil, and the octane value of this third chemical is lower than the fuel or the oil, so it is what detonates,”
