Hi, when I set off home this evening the car lights came on automatically but the dashboard didn’t light up. When I switched to manual lights, the dash lit fine but I noticed the near side dip beam headlamp was out. Any ideas where I should look to sort this? Fuse out, switch fault or something else?

 

DeepPurple, from what you describe, your problem almost definitely is the headlight switch. I don't have my diagrams to confirm this (on a trip at the moment), but what I remember of the diagrams, this pretty much only leaves a single component that can cause what you are seeing.

 

Hi Thermo (if you're still about), is this 'single component' the headlight switch or are you alluding to a failed backup alarm/siren that I have read about around - somebody suggested this has a built-in battery (presumably a sealed lead-acid type) which fails and shorts out its charging circuit ..but I have no related MIL on the dash.

I have this exact issue and a bunch of related and other issues too, namely high beams need to be held on to function; battery is not recharging effectively now and has required jump staring (in to cold weather too) but have not used the car for journeys really this past few months; also ABS and DSC on permanently for almost a year. It is an '08 2L diesel estate RHD; driver console cigarette lighter has never worked.

I can start a new thread but thought to try disconnecting the backup alarm first, which I may try now (also going to swap in a new smaller battery that a neighbour has given me and see if it can give me the crank to start it)

 

[QUOTE=Jagalag;2710985]Hi Thermo (if you're still about) ..
The neighbour's battery got the car turning over, so I turned the car around to work on it pavement side. I have disconnected the backup/secondary alarm/sounder and it has not changed the left-side (UK nearside) dip beam remaining off. However the highbeam, though it doesn't toggle-latch on. if pulled up high it sort of holds there (in some sort of wedge I think) with both manual and auto beam selected. Yesterday with the largely drained battery, I tested for voltage at the lights-related fuses F1, F2 and F4. F2 seems to be the main lights fuse and presented the supply voltage on it's terminals (whilst still inserted). All those fuses appear to be good as well

 

Jagalag, there is a mechanical switch that holds the turn signal stalk in the high beam position. Just to ask a silly question, yes, pulling the turn signal stalk will light the high beams, but to engage them long term, you need to push the turn signal away from you. What happens when you push it away? Does it come back to a neutral position or does it lock out there. To disengage the high beams, you simply pull the turn signal stalk towards you and it will undo the latch and return to the mid position (ie, high beam off).

As for the other issues, let me look at some diagrams. I think you have a few issues going on.

 

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! It doesn't seem to have the facility to 'push' the high beams on, they only 'pull on' towards the driver - I actually tried doing that before I came back to see your message as I haven't driven the car properly for so long
[QUOTE] Does it come back to a neutral position or does it lock out there. To disengage the high beams, you simply pull the turn signal stalk towards you and it will undo the latch and return to the mid position (ie, high beam off).
I always remember though having the standard 2 pull positions: flash and toggle-latch, but now I seem to have a precarious wedge 3rd lol (which requires pushing out, it may not even hold whilst driving idk), but I don't remember anything mechanical before. Mine's a '08 UK right-hand drive so I don't know how it may vary to other versions in the US or elsewhere. However reading around I noticed that many of the fusebox layouts are differently described here and around the net (possibly varying through engine size, fuel type and year) - I did find at least one that described F1 and F2 relating to lights
I only have the owner's manual describes fuses but doesn't have relays in it and an electronic workshop one that doesn't seem to always accord with my car I was hoping to track one down that does
Definitely lol. The dip beam light issue has been around for about 6 months The ABS/DSC a bit longer.
I ran a check on the passenger side ABS sensor as I had the wheel off, though I couldn't get thing out of its socket for love nor money I put low setting (200mV) voltmeter over it's pins but got absolutely nothing out of it (I got my son to help spin the brake disc too after trying it on my own without a spare arm, in order to be sure); it was working originally as I had replaced the knuckle with a secondhand one after a new wheel bearing had collapsed in its socket. I also replaced the drivers side front axle too had removed ABS and put it back in correctly seated .. I think the issue may have appeared around that time but I'm fairly sure that I then checked the condition of the sensor cable inside the wheel arch area and it seemed good.

I have also pulled the light control switch out of the car with a view to testing it

 

Jagalag, keep in mind that in early 2004, Jaguar did a face uplift to the car. They added a few functions, and in general, freshend up the car some after being out for a few years so they could get rid of all the early bugs. So, you will see where people talk about having a pre-2004.25 car or a post 2004.25 car. (ie, March 2004 being the cut over point). So, when you look at wiring diagrams, you want to make sure that both the engine bay and passenger compartment fuse boxes only go up to 50. If you see a fuse box (passenger bay) going up to 99, then that is a pre-2004.25 wiring diagram. there were slight changes made in 2007. So, since you have a 2008, that is going to be a rare gem to find. With that being said, I do have that diagram. Just need you to get to over 10 posts. This will allow you to then start PM'ing members and I can then send you that file.

Now, for the low voltage issue, I would say to first use multimeter to see what the voltage is across the lead posts of the battery (do not touch the metal part of the battery cable). WIth the engine running, you should be at 13.7 VDC. If you are down around 12.6, then with the help of a second person, rev the engine and see if your voltage gets above 13.0 VDC or if it stays where it is. A warning for you. You have a diesel car. Your charging system is designed a bit differently than your petrol brother's cars are. You have a more generic system that pretty much only goes between 13.7 VDC (with the engine running and about 12.5 VDC) with the engine off and minimal electrical load. If you are hovering around 12.6 to 12.7 VDC with the engine running, then I recommend doing this check. Let the car sit over night. Get the motor nice and cold. Now, start the car and immediately turn on the headlights, dash fan on high, rear defroster, and both seat heaters. Let the car idle in this condition for about 5 minutes. At this point, cup your hands OVER!!!!!! the battery terminals. Does the metal of the terminals feel about the same temp as the surrounding metal of the car or is it roasting hot (like you could fry an egg on it, hence why I say to cup OVER!!!!! the terminals). if it is hot, then you have a bad battery cable. If not, then we have another issue. But, lets start with this and go from there.

I still think you have a bad turn signal stalk. It is easy to hit with your leg and it is a cheap thing to replace.

 

That's great thank you ..better get posting then, lol. I should break these replies up a bit perhaps[/QUOTE]

 

I'll give that a go now, and as it's winter and around freezing it shouldn't take too long to get back to cold again

 

This is entirely plausible, however I do remember removing the stalk some time back when I discovered the problem and I think I opened it up to check out the tracks and gubbins but didn't spot anything awry. I'm fairly sure I did this as the window wiper stalk seemed to have issues and the wipers were all over place and mainly didn't work almost immediately after I bought it 2 years ago; I discovered another wiper stalk that had been left in the car under the passenger seat that I thin they were going to swap it out with, needless to say I tried a 3rd washer stalk at a breakers yard too, none of them worked, but I then discovered that there was fuse blown for the mid washer bottle motor (the rear window I think) and once replaced it solved the wiper issue. However one of these wiper stalks did have worn through tracks which I did remedy and get working again. So I'm fairly sure I took the indicator stalk apart just after as I was looking to find any similar issues. I might take it off at strip it down again too if necessary

 

Ok So I went out and measure the voltage across the battery (70Ah ~680CCA cf to original 80Ah 720CCA) and the initial measurement was 12.05 V which crept up to about 12.2V after 30 odd seconds. Then when I turned the motor over I got 14.5V fairly consistently ..so not sure what's going on there vis a vis the expected values.
After 5 mins I cupped my hands over the terminals and they were ambient temperature, ie quite cold

 

Jagalag, if you keep the multimeter on the battery after starting the car, you should see is creep down to 13.7 VDC. If it is staying up at 14.5 VDC, then you have something telling the alternator to overcharge the car. The car is smart enough that it will put a quick charge back into the battery right after starting it, but within a few minutes, the voltage should drop to 13.7 VDC.

As for the 12.05 VDC when you first checked the battery, that is a little low. It should be up at 12.6 VDC, if it is even down at 12.5 VDC, that is telling me that hte battery is not getting a full charge or there is something pulling power while the car is off. The most likely source is simply not locking the car. Locking the car is key with any new vehicle as this is what tells all the computers to go to sleep and this pulls the power draw to near zero (under 50 milliamps, if not under 20 milliamps). So, a simple check that you can do is turn off the car, open the hood, lock the car, then disconnect the negative battery post. From there you can put your red lead on the battery cable and the black lead on the battery post with the multimeter set to read DC amps. There may be an initial surge, but it should quickly drop to something very low. I would leave the multimeter set to the "A" scale (may be labeled "DCA"), and you should see a reading of around 0.020-0.040. If you are seeing anything more than 0.040 amps with the car completely shut down, then you have something drawing hte battery down. If you do have this and do not know how to figure out what circuit is causing your issue, let me know. It is an easy check.

 

The battery is a brand new one that the neighbour offered me after he saw me under the bonnet (though as mentioned in previous comment it is lesser-rated one cf the original) and I told him I had a battery-related issue. Apparently though it had been sitting around for a long time untouched with its plastic post covers still on, so don't know if it had dropped any charge in the interim, but it did crank the car over first time with just a little choke and smoke (which I think is worn valve stem seals as the smoke disappears shortly afterwards; this has been the case for the past 8 months or so). I only put the battery in yesterday evening anyway, but I did stop and start it maybe 5-6 times without letting it run for a few short minutes after the initial run where I turned it around (100m to limber it up) and left it running for 15 mins or so. However when I did the last test last night it ran for about 7 mins

 

Will do this check now to see. I will test battery voltage first as connected but not running and then just do the test as described, cheers

 

OK, I went out and opened the doors to open the bonnet, then tested the voltage across the battery it was initially 12.2V then crept up to 12.35V after about 30 secs or so (I did this a couple of times with it appearing slightly higher than 12.2 initially creeping quickly up to 12.35 ish) Then, forgetting to lock the doors I took off the battery neg terminal connector; in fact the car won't lock without the bonnet down anyway, though in theory I could have tried to mock it up by trying to trigger the boot latches.

As I wasn't too sure on the amp setting when you mentioned A or ADC but the expected was in range of 0.02 - 0.04A and my multimeters (in various degrees of functionality) all high current (up to 10A) options and my highest mA setting otherwise is 0.2A I took a risk and opted for that. Initial reading went high to something like 0.3A and the dropped to zero. A second attempt blew the fuse and rendered all functions non-working. So I went and scavenged and 250mA fuse from another of my lesser-functional meters.

So I then went back with the Max 10A setting and the red probe cable in the associated 10A fuse line and tested again (all still the doors unlocked but not open) The first pulse was at 8A dropping quickly to 0.2 then to 0.29 and up and down a bit around that value but couldn't get a stead reading. I tried again within about 20 secs and got the same sort of thing. This setting dictates not more than 10 secs on measure separated by 15 mins between tests. I had only done a few secs in each instance but pushed my luck on a 3rd to see where the reading was heading and I blew the 10A fuse on that meter too (my scavenged meter doesn't have a fuse on its 10A unfortunately and the other one is unfused 20 AMP with knackered cables [it might still have and good alternate set], there is at least another multimeter floating around somewhere else too)

So it appears to be drawing 200mA+ but I don't know if that's because I didn't lock the doors. I will see if I can simulate a lock with the bonnet open and then perhaps try the 20A meter if I can find what its testing conditions require (got to find the instructions there)

 

Just tried another test again this time with the 20A multimeter and one of the cables missing its probe pin, but I pressed its wire against the terminal to make enough contact anyway, First test with (car still unlocked) battery connected reads 11.95V. Then I tried to see if I could lock the doors with the bonnet up and pushed the latch locks down (well one went down the other refused to stay down so I undid it and tried manipulating it - finally I got a slight catch which would easily come up again and then after some more it seems to be holding more readily). However this did not allow the car to be locked so clearly the sensor is not based on that mechanism (and there were no sensor cables seemingly going to it) but have potentially remedied the catch on that side (yet to be tested to hold when the bonnet is down)

I retested the current pull on the battery as well with this meter just allowing it enough time to change its reading before disconnecting - there still seems to be a reading of 6A+ dropping to around 0.2A (I could see 0.22A briefly before removing). However this is with the doors unlocked, so this possibly accounts for this level of current draw. I might try to find how the bonnet is sensed in the meantime, but as I have the switch unit out I will look in to see what tests I might be able to run on that if I can find enough info on it

 

Finally tracked down the boot lid sensor which has a dark grey concertinaed rubber projection out of the left side strut mount zone (for anyone interested) and it blends in quite well with my grey Jag lol. Held that down and was able to lock the car Then I removed the connector from neg post (I tested the battery first of all with neg lead removed which gave me 12.13V (using the 20A MM)) and then did another current test using the 20A MM. This time it came in somewhere around 0.44A dropping quite quickly to a momentary 0.22A and then settling on 0.05A (I repeated this about 4X). So the 0.22A is probably the door lock draw point (I presume that it is held high there briefly through some sort of lingering capacitance) and the 50mA final value is just above what you anticipate. However I didn't use the 200mA setting on the MM as I didn't want to accidently blow another fuse as I'm quickly running out of them from the other MMs - so I don't know if I'd get a reading closer to 40mA or not on the finer scale. I guess I could risk the test, as I still have one more MM that is functioning again with borrowed leads

 

Jagalag, if you are getting to a final 50mA draw as the computers shut down in the car, then I would consider that a good test. yes, it is slightly higher than anticipated, but it is close enough. What you were probably seeing earlier is all the lights and whatnot as you were opening the door to access the locks and whatnot. hence the really high currents from what you were expecting.

I think we are starting to get off topic a little bit and we have moved on to another problem (going back to the original issue you had written about). So, want to take a moment and start anew and go about things a slightly different way. So, first things first, what year is your car? If it is a 2004, I will need the build month/year too (this is written in the driver's door jam on the sticker that is there).

Now, to confirm the problem. If you put your headlight switch in the AUTO position (your car was built with the AUTO headlight feature correct? Or was this an upgrade?), both headlights work, but you have no dash lights? If you rotate the headlight switch to the dip beam position (one click towards OFF from AUTO), the dash lights come on, but one of your dip beams goes out? If you turn it back to AUTO, does your dip beam come back on and your dash lights go off? Because you are in the UK, would your car possibly have the Scandinavian lighting setup (if you have no idea what I am talking about, then it shouldn't: There are 3 possible headlight switches and each one is just a bit different, hence the question).?

On a side note, you should be measuring the battery voltage with the doors shut and everything electrical turned off in the car. I have found that a 10 amp draw will lower the battery voltage 0.1 VDC. So, this might be affecting some of your readings. Making sure I am understanding what is going on when a measurement is taken.

 

It's 2008
Not quite, 'in auto'; no dash lights, and no left side (passenger side) dip beam (low beam) headlight, but right side (driver) there is a dipped beam. I tested the leftside dip bulb and it is good
I believe it was
Yes, but in this case my leftside dip beam remains out - as it is out in AUTO mode too
Leftside dip beam does not come back, but my dash lights do go off
No - plus I think most of these features are factory - no HID
Except for the earlier MM readings where I couldn't lock the car because the bonnet was open. all the readings (including all the earlier ones) were taken with all the doors and boot closed. My last reading set was with all doors and boot closed and the car locked

 

Here's my car!