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Car has thrown evap code at nearing empty last two trips to Idaho for lottery tickets since above thread. No fuel smell but codes. Thought my "fix" had worked.
Yesterday, 37 miles to empty, headed to pure gas fuel station near my home. Right on schedule @35 miles on range, low fuel light illumination, sat/nav warning. So nice to have this working after the fuel pump replacement I did and posted a thread about replacement & symptoms (my kitty died today).
Filled my kitty up, drove to grocery store for the pick up. Back to Apt. Got out and the strong fuel smell on driver's side was back. Darn! Unloading groceries into the Apt., on 3 trip noticed a liquid running out in front of the left rear tire. Oh great! Get down, look under the car and BLACK liquid leaking off gas tank. Wth? Black oil looking liquid? Stuck my finger in it and it's BLACK gasoline. I'm stumped, so I spend 4 hours researching what it could be and finally come to the conclusion that it's fuel going into the charcoal evap canister and leaking out the "to atmosphere" pipe. Research suggests this is extremely rare on any vehicle. Yup, if it's gonna happen, I'll be one of the lucky few.
So, today I spoke with our forum resource for parts, DR DOME. As usual he knew instantaneously it was what I had concluded as he's had 3, yes 3 of these fail. So, as usual dr dome to the rescue. He has one that he can take off in about a week and here's why WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THIS MEMBER!! He volunteered to take pics and video of removal of this part because based on his experience replacing 3 of these he says removal is not too hard but reinstalling can be tricky as they can break.
I asked this question in an earlier thread but got no responses. Putting everything together after my fuel pump change I find a hard plastic tube with a barbed end so it looks like a hose should be fitted there. After looking it over I decided that was the vent to atmosphere for the canister assembly so left it unconnected. I have doubts. The parts diagrams say the part labeled 6 in the attached diagram (from SNG Barratt) is a vapor separator. I read the vapor separator is supposed to go between the gas tank and the canister, not after the vent valve. Getting the vent to atmosphere wrong would explain why I get evap leak codes now. Does anyone know what the two air/vapor/evap fittings on the canister assembly attach to?
That is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't following that thread so missed it. I was caught up on the term "vapor separator" which in my experience is a device between the fuel tank and the canister that prevents liquid fuel from getting into the activated charcoal. Apparently Jaguar calls this a vapor separator but it's function is a little different, more like an air intake filter. Separating air vapor from dust and dirt. Thanks for your help!
Hey Dell, bad luck....
What do you think has led to the failure?
Is it possible the canister got saturated perhaps with an accidental overfilling event at the forecourt, or do you think it's simply that the canister has reached an end of its service life part and has lost its effectiveness, retained condensates until it eventually overflowed?
Did Dr Dome suggest just the canister or purge valve(s) as well?
In my conversation with dr dome, I asked if he had any insight into how or why they fail. Is it the solenoid on the evap components in the rear? Is it the purge valve on the firewall? In researching to try and find out initially what had failed, the posters say it starts with a fuel smell at the left rear wheel (mine did). Many times it progresses to trouble filling the car as air is not escaping through the charcoal canister and out the "to atmosphere " hose and back pressure shuts the hose on pump off. The other thing they talk about is an intense cabin fuel smell (mine did the first time). They also said if the opposite is happening, being the valves are stuck open that when filling and driving it will siphon fuel into the charcoal canister contaminating the charcoal (as mine did). Dr dome is sending me all the rear as well as the firewall purge valve. He mentioned one of his failures was a hose that deteriorated with the same result. He's including all the hoses as well.
The other thing that happened to me is filled car, range @ 363 miles. Did grocery run and found leak. Had to go to the bank the next morning and range was at 340. I go, "I didn't drive 23 miles yesterday.. Looked at miles driven = 10. Yeah well pumped some fuel on the ground, so maybe. Drove about 4 miles total to/from bank and the range was down to 310 miles. I think and dr dome agrees, the car is flushing gas out the atmosphere hose as it's driven.
The function of the assembly is pretty straight, vapor/fumes travel from tank through charcoal canister and out the "to atmosphere" hose. At appropriate times, below 85% full and ~1/4 full, the car calls for an evap test (pressurization) by closing the rear solenoid making sure the fumes are only traveling through the canister before being released.
Here's a comprehensive tsb on how it works with diagnostics =
Hey Dell, I know this post is old. My time has been eaten up by my 1999 Sea Ray Sundancer, you think our cars take up time!?! So I still have my 06 so I’m curious if you were able to fix this. Mine last year was doing the intermittent fill problem, then one day I get it filled and park in my drive way, it’s a pretty good incline 10 degrees anyway. I go in the house then my neighbor comes over and says something’s wrong with my car. Fuel is running out from the top of the tank like you are pouring it out of a cup. Turn the car around and it stops. I don’t drive very far anymore like 3 miles a day so MIL light only comes on when I drive a significant distance on the highway. All the evap codes are set big/gross leak small leak you know them. Work done by my guys at AAA
Changed (I’m going to get them mixed up) “Vent/Purge valve at the canister over the tank = 2 times, no change.
Changed vent valve on the firewall by me = once no change. So i’m guessing my canister is ruined and not letting the vapor out while filling. I have noticed a slight fuel smell if I get it 100% full. Most times I get tired of the handle clicking off and only put it 10 Gls or so.
So I’ve found a used canister on eBay, does the tank really have to come out or can a young competent mechanic that can see get it out and back in without dropping the tank? Lastly did you change yours out and did it fix the problem?
I need to start logging in more often.
Jon
So the end result was that after dropping the tank (yes it has to be dropped including the rear subframe) and replacing the canister (@$1,000 + canister cost), it did not resolve my problem. Took it back to the ex-Jag tech owned import auto clinic and they diagnosed the canister was functioning. Oh ****! "Well you didn't have us diagnose the problem. We followed your instructions". Yes, my bad. Had to drop the tank and rear end again and the 2 seals left and right for the sending units were leaking. ANOTHER $1,000 plus the parts (including rings, 1 broke replaced both for GP) and it fixed the problem.
So here is my supposition. What I ASSUMED (Yes *** out of you and me) was the black crud that I thought was the charcoal mixed with gas leaking on the ground was in fact gas leaking from the seals and rings washing all the years of road grime onto the ground. It was in fact NOT charcoal mixed with gas (think graphite looking slurry).
And as I posted in another thread about comprehensive component monitor never having completed in all the years I've owned my kitty. A couple of weeks later it had reset when I was just checking up with my OBD for my own mental peace of mind (nothing had happened to prompt me checking for codes). In that thread there is a post near the end of a very very small evap leak that can occur without throwing a code that can prevent the component monitor from completing.
Thanks Dell, I have befriended a young man that works for a close by garage. He comes to my boat and helps me with the things I can’t get to. It’s been a win/win. I pay him a $50 trip charge and then $75 an hour. When we started this he said, “I don’t know anything about boats” told him not to worry, I do, but just can’t do the hard work or get into the small spaces anymore. It’s been great, knocking out a lot of projects at a fraction of the cost and he is really showing an interest in the boat systems.
I digress, so I’m going to talk to him about dropping the x member and tank. Then I think I’ll just change everything, including fuel pump. If that doesn’t fix it, Give me the VIN.com and I go on the hunt for an XKR. Thanks again for posting, it helps a lot.
Jon
Charcoal canister fail
