This one will most likely be geared towards the techs, as I'm sure very, very few (if any) have done this.
Can anyone advise how difficult removing the front cradle with everything in tact (engine/tranny/tc case/front suspension, steering rack) is? I'm well aware of the magnatitude of this job, and am prepared for quite the effort.
Specifically, I need the engine out.. And all research tells me it has to come out the bottom, with everything else attached. I've never been shy about pulling engines/trannies/etc. I've had the engines out of our 86 and 75 XJ6s more times than I can remember. I've got a very well eqipped and spacious working environment, but no lift. The celieng in the garage is tall enough to get the car high enough for everything to come out from underneath, but it's an issue of how to get it that high. I'm toying with the idea of some kind of cross brace across the engine bay (maybe attaching to the top of the shock towers?) and using a chain hoist to pull the car off of the front cradle.

Any adivse?

Thanks gang, as always...

 

32 views and not a single response. Ouch.

 

I know we have a heavy line guy thats done engines both ways, and for you I would recommend pulling the engine alone out the top since a lift and multiple hands are what youll need to be successful for dropping the cradle out.But if you decide to go this way, most of us unbolt the steering rack from the cradle with lines and let it stay with the car

 

ive done plenty.. engine trani and transfre case and front subframe can come out all at once out the bottom.. be careful it is a heavy job.. i lower everything down on a heavy duty wood box and some axle stands .. loosen ball joints.. undo steering rack stabilizer links and 1 engine mount and 1 trani mount.. cables, hoses trani and coolant.. lower valence and then all the subframe bolts.. and shes down.have you got a hoist.. may i ask what are you replaceing? engine or TC?

 

Thanks guys. I've spent a good amount of time under the car but never looked around to see how things would come out.
Like I said, I only need the engine itself out. It's got a wicked knock the develops after it's warmed up. Sounds like a spun bearing/rod knock, but may be coming from the rear bank head. After the knock starts, it can barely be felt with your fingertips on the front valve cover. However, if you put your fingertips on the back valve cover, the knock can noticably felt more. Also, it puts out a fair amount of blue smoke from the left tailpipe. When driving just around the block, it knocks incredibly loud, but the car doesn't feel down on power or run rough. So until I tear into it, I can't really pinpoint a main bearing problem vs a rear head valvetrain problem.

It would really, really be nice to only pull the engine out from the top and leave everything else in the car, but I don't know if it would be even more of a pain than dropping the entire cradle.
In what order would things need to be removed to pull the engine itself from the top? Obviously the usual coolant lines, harnesses, exhaust, etc.. But as far as the tranny/tc, if I were to unbolt the tranny from the block, and unbolt the torque converter from the flex plate, would it be free to come out? What about the tc/axles etc?

Thanks again guys.. I'm hoping to save major bucks, and learn something.

 

It sounds like you have the same issue I have. There is a knock in the rear bank. This started one morning this winter during a clod start. It sounded like a rod knock. After engine was running for a moment or to it stopped. I figured it was oil pressure issue and oil was cold and thick. After one day round trip to work and back it began to knock at idle. This sounded like a spun bearing allowing the rod to knock. I added a little oil and it immediatly went silent as the oil poured over the running engine timing chain. OK now I was convinced it was the timing chain tensioner. I wanted to do an in-place replacement of chains and tensioners so I proceded to remove Air Plenum, coil packs, valve covers (bolts only), Belt, pullies, AC, Alternator, PS pump, radiator, condensor and of course all the electrical stuff as well as inside fender plastics and front bumper. OK so now I have removed as much as I need to work with the front cover in-place. Removed the bolts but cannot get the cover out of it's location. I have even tried raising that side of the engine 4 or 5 inches. Can't seem to find a way it will come out to access the chains, guides and tensioner. So now I have resigned myself to pulling the motor. I think I have room to "lift" entire powertrain out the top but that will require the removal of the half shafts. I hate to drop the sub-frame due to "re-alignment" issues that might crop up during a re-install. My research shows that dropping the sub-frame is the best approach. This will keep those half-shafts in place and if I'm careful the seals. While the beast is loose I plan to make some mods. I found a Mazda exhaust header cat back system that looks promising as a good start to removing those nasty cats near the block. I will also replace the TC fluid and the Transmission fluid while it is out. The nice thing about the sub-frame removal is that the install will havemost of the engine together. No tight knuckle busting bolt locations and attempt to set torque correctly.

If I had it to do from the start again I would go the JITS method and pull the entire powertrain and subframe as one piece.

Oh yes, did I mention that the rear chain could be pushed in with about 3/4" to 1" movement. The front bank will not budge.

I have some pics of my attempt at an in-place Timing Chain replacement from start that I will post later.

 

THANK YOU for your input! It's good to hear that I'm not the only one. I believe my failure has been due to oil starvation somewhere, caused by the imfamous leaking oilpan gasket which went from a weep to very sever almost overnight.

I drained the oil when the knock first appeared, and there was definitely some glitter in it. The largest piece of metal was roughly 2x3mm, and about as thick as a few pieces of paper. Have you drained your oil to check for any metal?

Also, could you please give me a little insight on how you plan to drop the front cradle?

THANK YOU, again!

 

As I have been under my kitty alot lately trying do to the impossible in-place replacement I too noticed that my pan was slick/coated with oil and figured it was the gasket had given out since I could not see anything from the heads. However, I NEVER saw ANY oil in driveway or on the ground at work. When I first heard the rattle it was a very cold morning and a cold start. Later that day it was a Knock and that is when I checked the OIL level and added some with the engine running and the sound immediately stopped and then later came back. I used Vavoline 5w-20 synthetic. Once I started the tear down and removed the valve covers I checked chain tension. Mind you ALL the fluids were still in the car. The front bank I could not press the chain in at all. The rear bank gave me some flex. Once I had gently removed almost everything and finally removed the front cover I could move the chain in the back alot and that was on the tensioner side. I concede that a drop in oil pressure could have caused damage but I found no reason for the drop. I WILL INSTALL A BADLY NEEDED PRESSURE GUAGE along with a TRANS TEMP GUAGE. This weekend we are going to have some mid 70's weather with a southern wind so I am doing a sub-frame drop/engine pull.
I will post again Sunday evening on the results of the oilpan contents, rod bearings, and valves.
As far as the sub-frame goes, I am planning to take the struts off. Reason, I already have the Plenum off so removing the struts, as far as I can tell, saves me about 10" inches of lifting the front. I have a HEAVY 12x6 beam running accross the front of my garage that I plan to use in conjunction with a 2 ton come-along attached to the front bumper frame and the beam. I will BLOCK the rear wheels and do a little math to get the proper "lift angle as to lift the least amount of weight as possible and don't want the vehicle to rol forward or backward, just piviot on the rear axle. Now for the tricky part. The sub-frame release. I already have the Front Bumper, Fans/Shroud, Radiator & Condensor off. Wheels are off. Fender plastics are off. No fluid in the engine, coolant and oil. Plenum is off. Battery compartment is off. Electrical harness needs to be Disconnected from ECM. Drain the Pwr Steering fluid. Remove PS tank. Remove Calipers and hang them on the body with "tie-wrap". Remove Speed sensors and attach to body. Remove Steering Column lower retaining bolts. AC lines are already disconnected from compressor. Need to remove drive shaft. Need to disconnect muffler at the union plate/flange. This is where the two cats dump into one flange at the base of the firewall. My vehicle has automatic trans so I need to remove the selector cable sheild and then the cable itself. (It might not be a bad idea to put the "sheild" back in place as not to disturb the shift linkage lever) I hear these are real touchy. Disconnect trany electrical connectors. Detach Battery cables from engine. De-pressurize the Fuel rail. Detach the fuel rail "spring lock" coupling so the fuel rail is free from vehicle. No need to remove fuel rail. I think that is all the preliminary work required. Now comes the DANGERIOUS part. I plan to leave the trany mount and the engine mount bolted to the vehicle during the sub-frame release. While car is still on stands, located near the "sub-frame" bolts in back and two in the front. I plan to "loosen", rather "brake loose" the 4 bolts holding the frame on. Once they can be turned easily with a 1/2" wrench I wil raise the car, remove the 4 jack stands and lower the sub-frame/powertrain down on 4 furniture dollys. Now What I can tell you is that the transfer case WILL stick down lower than the whole sub-frame/powertrain assemblies. You need to be aware of this or you will lose control of the engine when it wants to tip to the side. See this picture
SITE REFERENCE: http://jagmotorproject.blogspot.com/...-of-beast.html
http://jagmotorproject.blogspot.com/ by Steve Hanes

Go to http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3...rEngine3.1.jpg for larger image.

This guy has TONS of GREAT information and pictures!!!

With my dollies, from Home Depot, in place I plan to lower the vehicle to rest on them. I will block and secure my rear tires and hook up my come-a-long. I will completely remove the 4 bolts from the sub-frame. I will attach my cherry picker to engine and take slack from chain, this is to support the powertrain so I can lower it down onto the sub-frame. I will un-bolt the engine mtng bkt and the trany mtng bkt and carefully lower the engine until it is resting comfotrtably on the sub-frame and dollies. I suppose if you didn't have a cherry picker, engine hoist, you could block up the motor on the dollies but that will be not so safe and you may loose control of the whole thing and dump you powertrain on the ground. PLEASE NOTE that having the RIGHT tools makes everything easier, of course, but sometimes those tools are out of our reach and we have to do the best we can. BE CAREFUL!!! This mass will weigh in around 600 + pounds. Once it starts to move you won't stop it so GET OUT of the way. YOU COULD RECEIVE PERMANENT DAMAGE to yourself. I DO NOT RECCOMEND going under the vehicle once the jack stands are taken away. REMEMBER PERSONAL SAFTY, THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD GO WRONG AND PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
Once the powertrain is down and the picker released I will use a floor jack to start the vehicle lift. This is for 2 reasons. 1)make sure everything is disconnected and 2)to see exactly how well the whole assembly is riding on the dillies. Next I will hoist the front of the vehicle with the come-a-long. Once I have enough clearence I will move the whole assembly out from under the vehicle and then lower the front down onto two more furniture dollies. Place the floor jack under the rear of the vehicle and move the vehicle to the side for temporary resting place. Lower the floor jack and re-focus to the powerplant. I will then remove the transmission from the Engine. I will use the cherry picker to hoist the engine to an engine stand. move the trany/sub-frame aside for work later. One thing I didn't mention, My transmission cooler is currently still hooked up. I would like to leave it that way duing this pull.
I will take pictures and keep a journal on my progress.

The last month has been an extreme education on jag care and woes. I never realized the were so bitchy!!!! But man when they are good they are the best!!!

I own two. I started with an 02 X 3.0l with 17,000 miles and no major problems except for the common "foggy windows", now I know where to look to fix, a water pump, and the "cold whinning", now going to grease center drive shaft bearing, the vehicle now has 72,000 miles and I will repair any engine damage and run excelent fluids in this finely crafted machine. I also plan to "Mag-Filter" my trany and install oil pressure guage and trans temp guage. My second is an 04 S 3.0l, bought with 18,500. No problems at all....this is a very sweet ride. It's a little heaver feel and a more solid feel. These are real driving machines. the 04 now has 35,000 miles on it.

See this thread to review the engine pull check list
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=10518