I have Jaguar X-type 2002 2.5, I bouth four new tires 6months ago. Now, my tires are wearing on the inside faster than the outside faster on the rear tires. I've been rotating them and three weeks ago I got an alignment. if you look at the back of the car it looks like the wheels are at a slight angle. And suggestions or ideas, what man be causing this?

Damian

 

This problem was raised with the UKs biggest Jag car club, the JEC (Jaguar Enthusiasts Club) and a full magazine arcticle was written taking up a couple of pages.
Its a common problem because of the huge in-tolerance alignment settings for the car.Had my 2002 3.0 alignment set to straight ahead which is still in-tolerance and much improved inner edge wear.Dealers werent much help as they said "well its in-tolerance".
I may be wrong but I think the rears arent adjustable, maybe someone else knows???

 

all 4 toe settings on Xtypes are adjustable. and "IN SPEC" is total BS. This is why Jaguar eventually changed the alignment specs to dealers on Stypes, and should have done it on 04 and up XJs. I look at what the tires tell me, and then look at the before setting on the alignment machine. believing the tires first and adjust accordingly. Many times I toe in many Jags into the red out of spec, and have great wearing tires. And I see the same cars month after month year after year. The biggest issue. not taking into comphensation the amount of suspension deflection the roadforce creates when setting toe. Anyone that has ever aligned a Mercedes knows what a pressor bar is and its installed between the front tires to take out slack in the suspension for toe in/out. This puts the tires in the same position that they will be in while driving. Many times when I push out the front tires to simulate this the toe setting go from green to red "too much toe out" and this is why tires wearout the insides and techs say "I dont know why, its in spec in the green" This is by far NOT a Jaguar issue, I see alot of topics about thiss comeup all th time on other forums. While you cant install a pressor bar in the rear, if the tires in the rear are wearing inside thats too much toe out(again I dont care if its green in spec) as long as nothing is worn out, bushing, wheel bearing, bent rear hub carrier/trailing arm(common from turning to sharp over a curb) then set it with more toe in than you start with and watch from there. Camber is not really a wear issue till you hit 2*+/- So if the dealer doesnt know how to set it up, either get someone at the dealer that does or go to a different dealer. An alignment is not just an alignment that anyone can do(they should be able too, I just find alot of people that don't)

 

you have negative camber issues, which is causing the unevan wear.

 

Damnit, i guess i could have saved alot of typing then

 

Yeah, Brutal - I guess you've been told !
Thanks for all that info, by the way - my 99 XJR perpetually wears the front insides - I'll share your post with the alignment guy, since I am about to pop for new tires.
Wish I lived within a day's drive of you!
________
Wholesale Vaporizer

 

Hello,

Brutal, I'm only seeing excessive wear on the right front inner edge band. I had the car re-aligned and the tech told me that the camber on the RF only is slightly negative (1 degree or so - I knew that...). I wrote in another post that on my wife's Mazda minivan I was able to correct negative camber with an offset adjustment bolt made by Ingalls but the X-Type's stut design is different and there aren't any bolts that can be replaced.

Since it's only the RF, I've ruled out toe-in as the issue. Would replacement of the control arm solve it? Someone else suggested the subframe needs to be moved but wouldn't that alter the LF camber?

Thanks,

Steve

 

I see alot of X's that have that much negative camber that dont wear tires. that camber being negative is many times from the mushrooming of the upper strut mount from potholes, and rough roads and is worse on the right. This drops ride height and creats more neg camber. A broken hydro mount bushing in the rear of the front lower control arm will also let the the tire tioe out while driving. Thats where most of the potholes are. Yes you can loosen the subframe and shift it slightly to the left to change camber on both sides. But if you look at the mounting point of the sugframe, look to see "shifting" marks from where the subframe used to be and where it got knocked to. The best way to check for mushroomed mounts is to measure center to center( I just flip a new mount upside down stud to stub and this shows it clearly if thats the issue) But just cause its only the right front doesnt meen its still not the toe setting. Did he check suspension deflection as I suggested earlier? Cause I do see toe setting go out more on 1 side than the other from suspension tolerances stacking up more on that side vs the other. You could also have a wornout tie rod/ball joint on that side that lets the toe be "uncontrolled" on the right also. Again a toe "in spec" on the alignment machine does NOT meen it stays in spec driving!!!

 

Brutal,
When using presser bar or something like it, how do you know how much force to apply that simulates driving condition? I've seen road loads taken on test cars in dozens points on suspension, I would be hard pressed to guess what force is considered normal let alone repeat that with presser bar.

Don't get me wrong, I could not agree with you more on adjusting the alignment for the actual driving condition. I just want to know how to simulate that condition on the alignment rack.

 

I do it by hand, you get a feel for it cause it moves out to take up free play. then becomes very hard to push out anymore. The idea is to check it, this becomes closer to ideal than doing nothing. It also shows easily if you overlooked something like a bad tie rod/rods cause then it REALLY moves alot

 

Hey BRUTAL!!!!! Sorry MOSHU i dont mean to hijack your thread...

BRUTAL...i have a similar thread goin and cant seem to get a relavent answer. My left rear (driver) side wheel tilts inward to an almost 3* angle. So far ive replaced upper cotrol arm, lower front control arm, bilstein shocks, and the other lower control arm that holds the spring was replaced after the accident it was in. Also the trailing arm. ITS STILL LEANING!!! Too much, i know it may slightly but not this much. What else can i do? Wheel hub do this? Is there anything alse i could try?


Thanks in advance!!!!


Dave

 

Hit it on the otherside
is your subframe in the car square still? Or is it tweeked?
Its not uncommon to have them shift or bend when impacted and shifts the alignment of the subframe in the car to a non adjustable condition

 

LOL. Ive thought of hittin the otherside believe me. But how do i access the subframe points in the rear? Is there a guideline handy for this? I know its not practical as it mainly applys to accidents and whatnot but i imagine someone has been hit before or got a little corner happy. lol. I unfortunatley am the one that has to deal with another persons screw up but im thinkin this is where my problem lies.

Everything looks "GOOD". I mean things line up and and nothing "looks" to be outta place. All i see is a janky lookin wheel. lol Any diagram or picture to point me in the right direction would be appreciated. If not a detailed area to adjust

Dave


BTW i laughed my *** off the post after the you have bad camber. After you wrote all that. Too funny.

 

THERE ARE 4 SUBFRAME BOLTS ACCESSED EASILY UNDERNEATH. LOOSEN THEM AND PRY THE SUBFRAME OVER. BUT CHECK AND SEE WHERE IT BOLTS TO THE FRAME IF YOU CAN SEE MARKS FROM WHERE IT SAY BEFORE. i CAN USEALLY SEE IT IF SO

 

Cool. Ill take a gander when it gets to my house from the shop. Granted i have much bigger problems now that my engine is shot. But wanna tackle everything on the downtime so she is perfect when its done!!! Thanks BRUTAL!!

 

The subframe move isn't going to work. I retract what I suggested earlier. All control points are mounted on the subframe therefore you won't change the camber by shifting the subframe to the right. This would work on the front however.

Your rear subframe is tweaked. I would do what Brutal said tongue-in-cheek. In winter, get temporary wheel and tire on rear left. Take right hand turn wide and goose the gas - oversteer into the opposite side curb and you should have equal camber left to right. Take practice run and make sure you don't hit the front left wheel in the process.

 

Surely your not serious? LMAO. I mean i understand, but just a little sketchy. LMAO

 

except that the forward mouting point of the trailing arm aka hub carrier is mounted to the body and this is what the hub bolts to and is the direct control of toe and camber. If the subrame is tweeked over it will/can distort the arm and give a skewed alignment. I may be fine but we're workingon what it is, and isnt through a process of illiminations too

 

The trailing arm has high compliance in all directions but in fore/aft direction. It will not affect the camber when moving subframe especially in the realm of tolerance of subframe mounting bushings.

Having said that, Dave might be best off to go to frame shop to get this rear subframe measured and straightened vs. running it into curb.

 

Yea guys ill just take it to a shop that does body work and see what they can come up with. Just money situation is in the pinchin pennies now that the engine is goin to be replaced. But not goin to let it get me down. Still love the car even tho it has problems that werent self inflicted but someone elses fault. Hopefully after the engine and much tlc and fluid changes she treats me good as ive done her