Speaking of those pics, Thermo. I haven't seen too many live photos, so I'm curious to see the ones you snapped.

 

Bellanca, I posted them 2 days ago. Check out: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-123840/page3/. I have more coming. The live photos are nice, but they had the all aluminum chassis sitting next to the live car without a lot of the body panels and whatnot on it. To me, that is more telling of where this car is going to go and what options are likely to be added in the near future. I haven't posted the shell pictures yet as I want to edit the pics some and I am just getting back from London and have't had the time to give them due justice.

 

For those saying that the XE doesn't live up to the XJ or XF, it was never meant to be that caliber of car. This car is supposed to do what the X-Type did: get those that don't drive a Jag to look at Jag and have something that is at a price point that most are willing to give something new a try. I liken this to those that have the XJ or XF and looking at say a Ford Fusion Sport or the Chevy Caprice. They are very nice cars, get you where you need to go. But, are they "Jaguar level cars"? I would hardly put them in the same class of car. But, at the same time, the price difference reflects that too. Jaguar is aimed at a specific group of people with the XE. It is not meant to be the "one jag that everyone will have". I am sure BM3 can back me up on this, when we were talking with the marketing guys, they know the XE is not as flashy and fancy as an XJ. They didn't want it to be. They wanted the car to be the stepping stone to get people interested in the higher end cars 5-10 years into the future.

So, to say that the XE is not an XJ, that is a true statement. But, looking at the car in person does give a completely different perspective of the car. Would I love to see an option or a different design that incorporated a "4 headlight" setup (like what the older jags had), oh hell yes. But, as jaguar sees it, the "4 headlight setup" is what lead to descreased sales because people are now associating the 4 headlights to "old technology". The inside could be star trekish, but you have to get them to open the door first and that is only done with having something that makes people think "wow, that is interesting and new". With that, I think jaguar did their job.

 

I am in complete agreement of the headlamp set up. If this car had a four lamp set up or something that mimicked it, my perception of it would be completely different( more favorable). I have seen and continue to see these headlamps on multiple brands of cars and I find them terribly boring.. A few manufacturers are stepping out of the box out there, but not many.

Although I hate to say that I am very disappointed in the front end treatment of the car, I think the way Jaguar is marketing this car with their reveal and all is just beyond brilliant. Although my eyes are telling me that the entire saloon range is a Large-Medium-Small version of the same thing, I can't help but be curious about it.....and the way it's being presented is making me feel like its a sports sedan in its own right and not just a poor mans Jaguar, and that's precisely the way that people need to feel about it. Let's face it, not everyone buys a small sports sedan because they are vicariously desiring the top end model...I, for one would not be caught in a XJ or even a XF. They are too grand and stately for me. Maybe in 20 years when I am 50...but I can't see myself or desire such a large car.. Great job on the marketing angle.

 

Sorry to disappoint but if you wanted a cheap F-Type... Save up for an F-Type!! It's a more affordable Jaguar that can feel like a jag, use aluminium, increased tech at a better price....what's not to love for God's Sake?!?!?

Anyone here excited about a potential coupe variant with a 485hp V8?! It's 3200 lbs!!! Now that would be a bonkers jag!

 

Perhaps I did not expresses myself clearly in the previous post.

I have loved Jaguars since my grandfather let me ride in his XK150 when I was 5. I am a big fan of the brand. I own 3 of them, two which where purchased new by my above-mentioned grandfather....did I say I am a big fan of the brand?

I am however, not an apologist nor am I blind. I am not understanding your comments about a "cheap F type". Who wants a cheap F type? Do you think people are mentally incapable of grasping the concept that a manufacturer can not produce a 100k dollar car and sell it for 35k?? If that's the case then rest assured that I am acutely aware of what a compact sedan is.

Just because some of us are underwhelmed by this car it does not mean we are detractors of the brand. On the contrary some of us are fans of the work that William Lyons, Malcolm Sayer, Geoff Lawson, and Keith Helfet did at Jaguar and just don't find this up to par. (If that's ok with you). So please forgive me if I am not first in line to hand Ian Callum a bouquet of flowers and offer to brush his hair.

 

You're right Andrew and what I meant to convey was that the E-type gave Jaguar's design team a visual platform from which to build on while the XF was obviously a visual design platform for the XE as opposed to say the X-Type. It's true however that the compact sports sedan platform for Jaguar definitely started with the likes of the MK1, 2 and X-Type as you eluded to.

 

Correction: Previous post was not pointed at you directly yours was just the last post and the mobile app quoted it. Your points are well thought out in your initial post and sorry for inciting a rebuttal when none was needed:

"Sorry to disappoint"
Should have said:
"To all those who view this car as an outright off the ground failure...Sorry to disappoint"

If that includes you... Mister.... Then I truly am sorry.

Loth

 

Spikepaga,

From the perspective of fans of the older models of Jaguar such as yourself, what makes the modern cars of this era not up to par? How can the cars remain what they once were if they don't adjust to modern regulations of materials, engine placement, bumper location, etc. I understand that you want to leave the essence of the brand in every model to distinguish it from other brands but I always wanted to know what's missing when someone says that the Jaguars of today don't measure up to their predecessors.

 

Hi Marcus,

First I do not mean to disparage the current cars-this is simply my assessment, nothing more. I have test driven a XF and found it drove beautifully.

I realize that I may be in a minority here, but I find That Callum's saloons are rigid and opposed to the spirit of Jaguar. I think that he has been very successful in his interpretation of the Jaguar sports car (XK, F type). I find his saloons anonymous to a point,-not ugly, but a bit anonymous and uninspiring..a banal on the spot product.

William Lyons XJ was made thru 5 decades. Granted it was not a best seller in its latest interpretation (2004-2009), but nevertheless it remained. I do not believe that Ian Callum's saloon designs at Jaguar will be produced 40 years from today. That's not to say I think Jaguar should still be making that today, but I find it unfortunate that all of the design heritage had been relegated to the dustbin of history. Many manufacturers have found a way to achieve modern cars for today without dumping their heritage out the window. Things are not better just because they are shiny and new. In my opinion, What Callum has done is akin to tearing down the Empire State Building and replacing it with a concrete and glass structure that looks nice and modern-today and tomorrow only.

 

I see. I have not had the experience of driving a Jaguar older than a 2009 so I had no idea what the pre-2009 Jaguars offered from a driving dynamics standpoint. It's a beautiful thing when you have two or more people look at one thing and they all interpret something different from it. I see two things from the XJS, XK and XF that I believe they all share and that is boldness and beauty. All three of these car appear to be in motion while standing still and as a youngster (I'm 47) that's what I was drawn to.

Appreciate you insight!

 

Thank you very much, Thermo, great pics!! Mind if I post them over at Motor Trend? I'm pretty much the Jag nut over there haha.

 

I don't find the look of XE 'cheap' or 'not pretty', but only lament the fact that it is all but indistinguishable from its other stablemates. When I first fell in love with the Jaguar brand all models had their own distinctive looks -- XJ6 SIII/XJS in 1990's, XJ8/S-Type/XK8/X-Type in early 2000's, XJ8/XF/XK in late 2000's....And now they all look alike following the 'brand recognition grill' fad of the other car makers (don't get me started on the Lexus spindle grill).

If they ever redesign the XK I hope it's not going to be more of the same!

Wolfy

 

Bellanca, if you want to, go for it. Just make sure to reference that I am the one that took them. If you want bigger versions of the pics, send me a PM with your e-mail address and the pics you want and I will send you the 12 MP versons of the pics vice the 1 mp versions that are here.

 

What you want Jaguar to do is make every building in Manhattan a slight variation of the Empire State Building. Can you imagine how uninspiring that would be?

I find Ian Callum's designs to be very polarizing at first, but at their core, they are very simple and organic designs.

By thw way, the 2004-2009 XJ (I had one) was never a modern look, even when it came out. That's even worse!

 

Thank you, and they will do just fine as is, the margins over at MT are so small that using a larger pic is kind of a pain. I'll be sure to reference you.

 

No matter how the car was styled there would be critics...

Ford thought they knew what the Jaguar customer wanted, so they went with the retro-styling of the X-Type, X350 XJ and S-Type. The critics called the look dated.

With the XF, X351 XJ (and now the XE) the styling is different, doesn't hang on to old image, but the critics complain it doesn't look like a Jag or it looks too much like everything else on the road.

Can't please everyone...

Nothing personal against anyone on this forum, but I do think that unless you are a new car buyer your opinions/perceptions aren't those of the target customer. It's all very easy for us to sit on the sidelines and sprout our opinion, but it's the new car buyer who's opinion matters the most here.

I always found it ironic that some of the most vocal critics of the X-Type were the older Jag owners, still clinging to their old cars, who were never going to buy a new car regardless of if they liked it or not...

When you look at this car, you have to remember who the target customer is;

New to the brand
Looking for a mid-sized premium saloon at a competitive price
Someone who is interested in a sporty drive (i.e. rear wheel drive)

The XE is not meant to pull customers out of XJ's, although some might find a smaller car more appealing. No the goal is to offer Jaguar quality and style in a more compact vehicle at the more price-competitive point of the market.

I already banged on about the technical specs, if you don't get the appeal of a fully alloy body/chassis, rear wheel drive, turbo I4 petrol/diesel, supercharged V6, 6-speed manual or 8-speed auto, AWD option, V8 in the pipeline, in a smaller, lighter, sporting saloon with Jag badge on the nose, then you might need to check your pulse, I fear you may not actually be alive...

 

That is not what I said at all.

I must assume you find this car to be the epitome of grace and beauty as you have taken my analogy of tearing down a masterpiece to replace it with a banality, and distorted it. I think I clearly manifested that I do not believe Jaguar should still be making the same cars from the 60's. I did not realize that not caring for Ian Callum's saloons would elicit such emotional responses.

 

Precisely. Same grill same headlights across the board. No one called the cars "ugly"

I fail to understand why, with the treasure of heritage this is occurring

 

Frankly I don't think they built the XJ for 40 years because it was such a well-loved design; it was because there was nobody brave enough to break out of that rut Jaguar was in. They were extremely cash strapped and couldn't afford to take a risk on something fresh and new. How many times did Jaguar nearly go bankrupt in those 40 years?

As far as the XE goes, I acknowledge that there is probably no way to tell what is timeless or not. I mean, who are any of us to say that those banal glass buildings you hate aren't going to be timeless in the future? I have to wonder if the Empire State Building's looks were an instant success in the 1930s.

Who is tearing down a masterpiece anyway? Is Ian Callum torching old Jaguars? OK he did sort of butcher up an old Mark II...