Built new 2016 XF. Disappointed.
#21
04-08-2015, 01:18 AM
Senior Member
The supercharged 5.0 trim package won't be back. They will have either the R and an SVR, or maybe just an SVR.
I hope their SVR is priced more competitively than the current R-S. The current R-S costs more than an M5 and delivers less power, less performance and less luxury. And not surprisingly it depreciates like a brick.
What they really need is an R model with 600hp that can go head to head with the next gen E63 and M5.
And they should also have SVO offer a custom program like BMW Individual. I would want a loaded SVR with matte paint and a white (not ivory but real white) leather interior.
I hope their SVR is priced more competitively than the current R-S. The current R-S costs more than an M5 and delivers less power, less performance and less luxury. And not surprisingly it depreciates like a brick.
What they really need is an R model with 600hp that can go head to head with the next gen E63 and M5.
And they should also have SVO offer a custom program like BMW Individual. I would want a loaded SVR with matte paint and a white (not ivory but real white) leather interior.
base price was about the same but not sure you got the same features on the m5 base as the rs base. Most of the m5s here were 127k base with options. Jag was 106 with options
m5 has some features the rs doesn't but nothing to write home about.
A year later the same car is mid 70s all day long and cost 20k more than the Jag. Not seeing that either is holding is value nor are the amgs.
Back to topic. The new XF needs something more than the rs has to remain interesting. 550hp in a 600hp world is uninteresting going forward. Weight will help but hp sells.
exterior styling i love but interior wise jag needs a lesson from amg and bmw and some from audi.
If a punk in an m5 happens to get lucky and beat me im heading down to the wurks and negotiating something new. Until then the Jag has the creds.
#22
04-08-2015, 04:27 PM
I hope their SVR is priced more competitively than the current R-S. The current R-S costs more than an M5 and delivers less power, less performance and less luxury....
And they should also have SVO offer a custom program like BMW Individual. I would want a loaded SVR with matte paint and a white (not ivory but real white) leather interior.
And they should also have SVO offer a custom program like BMW Individual. I would want a loaded SVR with matte paint and a white (not ivory but real white) leather interior.
Agree customization is desireable. I wanted my XFR-S in BRG but nope, had to be one of the 5 available colours, 2 of which are pretty similar (Stratus grey is almost black). Why wouldn't they want to make it possible? They can make a lot of money on special order paint, upholstery etc. Not that I'd want white leather LOL but hey, that's what customization is all about...
#23
04-08-2015, 05:52 PM
Veteran Member
I somewhat agree but all the car manufacturers are moving away from that. Word from Germany is that E550 will be discontinued. And BMW 550i will be a 6 cylinder or may also be discontinued. V8 will only be available in M5 and E63.
So that value sweet spot goes away. I was hoping for an F Type Coupe V8S originally but they didn't make one so I had to buy the R.
So you have to choose between a powerful V6 and the R model. That's quite a big gap.
So that value sweet spot goes away. I was hoping for an F Type Coupe V8S originally but they didn't make one so I had to buy the R.
So you have to choose between a powerful V6 and the R model. That's quite a big gap.
#24
04-08-2015, 05:56 PM
Veteran Member
I'd like to review those numbers. The M5 needed a 13,000 usd option to keep up with the rs.
base price was about the same but not sure you got the same features on the m5 base as the rs base. Most of the m5s here were 127k base with options. Jag was 106 with options
m5 has some features the rs doesn't but nothing to write home about.
A year later the same car is mid 70s all day long and cost 20k more than the Jag. Not seeing that either is holding is value nor are the amgs.
Back to topic. The new XF needs something more than the rs has to remain interesting. 550hp in a 600hp world is uninteresting going forward. Weight will help but hp sells.
exterior styling i love but interior wise jag needs a lesson from amg and bmw and some from audi.
If a punk in an m5 happens to get lucky and beat me im heading down to the wurks and negotiating something new. Until then the Jag has the creds.
base price was about the same but not sure you got the same features on the m5 base as the rs base. Most of the m5s here were 127k base with options. Jag was 106 with options
m5 has some features the rs doesn't but nothing to write home about.
A year later the same car is mid 70s all day long and cost 20k more than the Jag. Not seeing that either is holding is value nor are the amgs.
Back to topic. The new XF needs something more than the rs has to remain interesting. 550hp in a 600hp world is uninteresting going forward. Weight will help but hp sells.
exterior styling i love but interior wise jag needs a lesson from amg and bmw and some from audi.
If a punk in an m5 happens to get lucky and beat me im heading down to the wurks and negotiating something new. Until then the Jag has the creds.
#26
04-09-2015, 12:05 AM
Senior Member
#27
04-09-2015, 06:18 AM
Veteran Member
Agree. I expect the 2016 will address these issues. What sold me on my supercharged purchase was I thought the overall interior and exterior styling, driving feel, and power were more important and a better buy for the money. As Jaguar's business model starts to look like the others, they could lose some of those distinctions if not careful. BMW in particular, I think lost ground to Audi, as Audi seemed to adopt the earlier business model of BMW (the ultimate driving machine). BMW switched to get broader non enthusiast appeal, changed their slogan and then switched their slogan back, but their product in my mind continues to evolve towards more mass market appeal unless you pay a significant premium. We'll see.
#28
04-09-2015, 06:35 AM
There is one thing you get in a Jag, that you will never get in a BMW, Audi, Merc, etc.
Exclusivity.
Here in Sydney another Jag on the road is a rare sight, if i'm driving all day I will see maybe 2 or 3 if i'm lucky. I will see hundreds if not thousands of BMW's, Audi's, Merc's, VW's, Range Rover Evoques (they must have sold like hotcakes), and after a while they all just become boring. Then every now & then I see a Jag and it's like "JAG!" but if I was spotting other makes i'd be bored from counting...
So it really doesn't bother me if the tech is out of date, if there is something faster or making more HP, I have never seen an exact same car as mine on the road here, ever.
If I had bought a white Range Rover Evoque i'd just be blending in with all the others.
Exclusivity.
Here in Sydney another Jag on the road is a rare sight, if i'm driving all day I will see maybe 2 or 3 if i'm lucky. I will see hundreds if not thousands of BMW's, Audi's, Merc's, VW's, Range Rover Evoques (they must have sold like hotcakes), and after a while they all just become boring. Then every now & then I see a Jag and it's like "JAG!" but if I was spotting other makes i'd be bored from counting...
So it really doesn't bother me if the tech is out of date, if there is something faster or making more HP, I have never seen an exact same car as mine on the road here, ever.
If I had bought a white Range Rover Evoque i'd just be blending in with all the others.
The following users liked this post:
philhef (09-27-2015)
#29
04-10-2015, 05:14 AM
Veteran Member
There is one thing you get in a Jag, that you will never get in a BMW, Audi, Merc, etc.
Exclusivity.
Here in Sydney another Jag on the road is a rare sight, if i'm driving all day I will see maybe 2 or 3 if i'm lucky. I will see hundreds if not thousands of BMW's, Audi's, Merc's, VW's, Range Rover Evoques (they must have sold like hotcakes), and after a while they all just become boring. Then every now & then I see a Jag and it's like "JAG!" but if I was spotting other makes i'd be bored from counting...
So it really doesn't bother me if the tech is out of date, if there is something faster or making more HP, I have never seen an exact same car as mine on the road here, ever.
If I had bought a white Range Rover Evoque i'd just be blending in with all the others.
Exclusivity.
Here in Sydney another Jag on the road is a rare sight, if i'm driving all day I will see maybe 2 or 3 if i'm lucky. I will see hundreds if not thousands of BMW's, Audi's, Merc's, VW's, Range Rover Evoques (they must have sold like hotcakes), and after a while they all just become boring. Then every now & then I see a Jag and it's like "JAG!" but if I was spotting other makes i'd be bored from counting...
So it really doesn't bother me if the tech is out of date, if there is something faster or making more HP, I have never seen an exact same car as mine on the road here, ever.
If I had bought a white Range Rover Evoque i'd just be blending in with all the others.
#31
04-11-2015, 02:17 PM
Veteran Member
Just spent some time playing around building new 2016 XF on both US and UK sites. Totally disappointed.
It seems quite a bit that the Current XF has as standard is now coming in as extras. And I never thought I'd see the day Jaguar doesn't have a chrome mesh grille option. Personally, I prefer the black but most people I know expect chrome.
Another thing is the lack of choices on the interior finishes. On most models, you only have two veneer choices, no piano black unless an R or S,
And the real kicker is our VERY limited. Choices compaired to UK site. I configured several amazing cars on UK but when I went to US site, so much wasn't agailable. Except for the R, our choices have been watered down to very bland combinations.
Jaguar really needs to open up the trim choices more across the board, from leather colors to the veneers.
Oh, and don't expect ANY of the "publicized" improvements to come standard. Jaguar has finally gone the way of BMW and Mercedes and started charging for many of the upgrades they used to consider standard, which was a major selling point for Jag. (You're going to pay dearly for that new big touch screen!!)
It seems quite a bit that the Current XF has as standard is now coming in as extras. And I never thought I'd see the day Jaguar doesn't have a chrome mesh grille option. Personally, I prefer the black but most people I know expect chrome.
Another thing is the lack of choices on the interior finishes. On most models, you only have two veneer choices, no piano black unless an R or S,
And the real kicker is our VERY limited. Choices compaired to UK site. I configured several amazing cars on UK but when I went to US site, so much wasn't agailable. Except for the R, our choices have been watered down to very bland combinations.
Jaguar really needs to open up the trim choices more across the board, from leather colors to the veneers.
Oh, and don't expect ANY of the "publicized" improvements to come standard. Jaguar has finally gone the way of BMW and Mercedes and started charging for many of the upgrades they used to consider standard, which was a major selling point for Jag. (You're going to pay dearly for that new big touch screen!!)
US cars are pretty much all pre-ordered by dealers. Very few are built to order.
If cars are built to order then options can be added very cheaply with the modern production lines. Even paint colours can be changed for each car coming down the line if necessary.
US dealers can only order cars with wider appeal so the US bound cars will come with packages of options that dealers are confident will sell.
I bought my last XF to order and got everything exactly as I wished. Took two months to get over here (Canadian spec).
#32
04-12-2015, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
I'd like to review those numbers. The M5 needed a 13,000 usd option to keep up with the rs.
base price was about the same but not sure you got the same features on the m5 base as the rs base. Most of the m5s here were 127k base with options. Jag was 106 with options
m5 has some features the rs doesn't but nothing to write home about.
A year later the same car is mid 70s all day long and cost 20k more than the Jag. Not seeing that either is holding is value nor are the amgs.
Back to topic. The new XF needs something more than the rs has to remain interesting. 550hp in a 600hp world is uninteresting going forward. Weight will help but hp sells.
exterior styling i love but interior wise jag needs a lesson from amg and bmw and some from audi.
If a punk in an m5 happens to get lucky and beat me im heading down to the wurks and negotiating something new. Until then the Jag has the creds.
base price was about the same but not sure you got the same features on the m5 base as the rs base. Most of the m5s here were 127k base with options. Jag was 106 with options
m5 has some features the rs doesn't but nothing to write home about.
A year later the same car is mid 70s all day long and cost 20k more than the Jag. Not seeing that either is holding is value nor are the amgs.
Back to topic. The new XF needs something more than the rs has to remain interesting. 550hp in a 600hp world is uninteresting going forward. Weight will help but hp sells.
exterior styling i love but interior wise jag needs a lesson from amg and bmw and some from audi.
If a punk in an m5 happens to get lucky and beat me im heading down to the wurks and negotiating something new. Until then the Jag has the creds.
I find people like you who are delusional about the competitiveness of the product give us Jaguar enthusiasts a bad name. I am a universal car enthusiast. In my garage I have both a Jaguar F-Type R Coupe with the 550hp Jaguar V8, and the M5 with the 560hp BMW M V8. And I am certain the BMW motor is putting out closer to 600hp. Once in motion it feels significantly more powerful than the 550hp F-Type R engine.
Most people think the R-S is not a competitive product which is why it sells so poorly.
Last edited by StealthPilot; 04-12-2015 at 05:33 PM.
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Foosh (07-07-2015)
#34
04-12-2015, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
I'll take the Jag over the M5 anyday.Oh..and your extra $20k you spent on the M5? How about a quick run against my 1970? Heh heh. Good luck sir.
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Foosh (07-07-2015)
#35
04-17-2015, 07:59 AM
Senior Member
I went to the Jaguar USA web site and was somewhat disappointed with the "Portfolio". As previously stated, the options list has grown and replaced what used to be standard equipment. The XF S has better choices, but I do not see Sirius as part of the standard (or optional) equipment, which is reason enough to not consider a model. If I am right, the only way to get it is to move up the "food chain".
Based on the interior colors for the portfolio and other limited options. If I was replacing my 2012 Portfolio (with the V-8) I'd opt for a 2015, not a 2016. That combined with the fact that the "outgoing" model may be somewhat cheaper (read discounted), that may be a good option.
The good news it that they have added the 380 HP V-6 to the lineup.
Based on the interior colors for the portfolio and other limited options. If I was replacing my 2012 Portfolio (with the V-8) I'd opt for a 2015, not a 2016. That combined with the fact that the "outgoing" model may be somewhat cheaper (read discounted), that may be a good option.
The good news it that they have added the 380 HP V-6 to the lineup.
#36
04-18-2015, 08:54 PM
Senior Member
I went to the Jaguar USA web site and was somewhat disappointed with the "Portfolio". As previously stated, the options list has grown and replaced what used to be standard equipment. The XF S has better choices, but I do not see Sirius as part of the standard (or optional) equipment, which is reason enough to not consider a model. If I am right, the only way to get it is to move up the "food chain".
Based on the interior colors for the portfolio and other limited options. If I was replacing my 2012 Portfolio (with the V-8) I'd opt for a 2015, not a 2016. That combined with the fact that the "outgoing" model may be somewhat cheaper (read discounted), that may be a good option.
The good news it that they have added the 380 HP V-6 to the lineup.
Based on the interior colors for the portfolio and other limited options. If I was replacing my 2012 Portfolio (with the V-8) I'd opt for a 2015, not a 2016. That combined with the fact that the "outgoing" model may be somewhat cheaper (read discounted), that may be a good option.
The good news it that they have added the 380 HP V-6 to the lineup.
Last edited by Bellanca_XF; 04-18-2015 at 08:58 PM.
#37
07-07-2015, 11:38 AM
Veteran Member
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DPK (07-07-2015)
#39
07-07-2015, 06:26 PM
Veteran Member
Yes, and I also remembered the Dodge Charger. All of these cars can be ordered with leather, and the other usual "luxury" stuff, and when so equipped are close to what would be considered luxury car price territory.
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