5.0 S/C Engine Rebuild
#261
07-31-2019, 06:17 PM
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Not "plugged" as such, it's a different block casting but it is essentially the same block as the V8, exact same size externally but with two fewer cylinders.
Also both the bore and stroke are smaller than the V8 and the SC is smaller, but pretty much everything else is carried over from the V8.
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mrNewt (07-31-2019)
#262
07-31-2019, 09:18 PM
Yep.
Not "plugged" as such, it's a different block casting but it is essentially the same block as the V8, exact same size externally but with two fewer cylinders.
Also both the bore and stroke are smaller than the V8 and the SC is smaller, but pretty much everything else is carried over from the V8.
Not "plugged" as such, it's a different block casting but it is essentially the same block as the V8, exact same size externally but with two fewer cylinders.
Also both the bore and stroke are smaller than the V8 and the SC is smaller, but pretty much everything else is carried over from the V8.
Puzzling though... but I guess not quite entirely surprized, considering their history.
#263
08-02-2019, 04:04 PM
>Puzzling though...
Ha, anybody remember when GM needed an engine for their mid-sized cars in the early 60s, after the aluminum V8 proved unreliable (anybody also remember that they sold that engine to BMC where it was used in Rovers, etc. until the late '90s), and they cut two cylinders off the ~350 CI V8 to make the 215 CU V6?
Vibrated like a paint mixer. Lasted until 2015 as the Series III 3.8l Buick motor.
That motor was used in the Buick Grand National and GNX, was offered in both turbo and supercharged forms, and at one point made ~400hp
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
Ha, anybody remember when GM needed an engine for their mid-sized cars in the early 60s, after the aluminum V8 proved unreliable (anybody also remember that they sold that engine to BMC where it was used in Rovers, etc. until the late '90s), and they cut two cylinders off the ~350 CI V8 to make the 215 CU V6?
Vibrated like a paint mixer. Lasted until 2015 as the Series III 3.8l Buick motor.
That motor was used in the Buick Grand National and GNX, was offered in both turbo and supercharged forms, and at one point made ~400hp
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
#264
08-06-2019, 07:46 PM
Here's a vid showing the gauges working, and their rough mounting position on the dash, though obviously the angle would change slightly once the gauge pod is smoothed into the dash top and sits at the same profile - currently the bottom of the gauges are pushing the cluster up away from the dash.
Hopefully there won't be too many clearance issues with the gauges - there's a chance it could interfere with HVAC tubing in the dash but I'm pretty ok with modifying these if neessary. There's something broken in that area that's causing an (occasional) awful rattle on idle so I need to get in there anyway to fix that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRb-FsvirA
The gauges were custom-made by New Vintage USA, with silver paint and font similar to the existing instrument panel, and a blue backlight - the color of the blue is very slightly off compared to the rest of the dash illumination but not enough that I think I want to go messing with them just yet. Even with small (unchangeable) differences like the gauge needles being red, I still think with matched font styles etc they were worth the money.
I'll try and get some driving shots of them later.
Hopefully there won't be too many clearance issues with the gauges - there's a chance it could interfere with HVAC tubing in the dash but I'm pretty ok with modifying these if neessary. There's something broken in that area that's causing an (occasional) awful rattle on idle so I need to get in there anyway to fix that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRb-FsvirA
The gauges were custom-made by New Vintage USA, with silver paint and font similar to the existing instrument panel, and a blue backlight - the color of the blue is very slightly off compared to the rest of the dash illumination but not enough that I think I want to go messing with them just yet. Even with small (unchangeable) differences like the gauge needles being red, I still think with matched font styles etc they were worth the money.
I'll try and get some driving shots of them later.
I am in a similar situation to take out the engine for a rebuild and I had exactly same idea to instal a pressure gauge. Mine is 3.0 TD and spun one rod bearing. I need torque settings or engine assembly procedure for 3.0DT before I feel confident enough to take the crank out. Was wondering if you know torque settings for my engine or when I can get it from.
Many Thanks
#265
08-08-2019, 06:09 PM
Sorry for the confusion - to clarify:
It's only when you look at the wiring diagrams that it becomes clear that the oil pressure switch was only fitted to the 3.0 engines, not the 5.0, and since they share a block design (kinda) both these engines have a 1/2" threaded port that tees directly off the high-pressure oil feed from the pump - on the 5.0 engine this is fitted with a threaded plug from the factory (early ones had insufficient sealing resulting in oil leaks, this is discussed in a Land Rover TSB early on in this thread). I haven't seen one, but I assume the 3.0 engine uses this port to fit the oil pressure sensor.
I also have to assume that the reason they don't fit the sensor on the 5.0 is because the threaded port is very close to the passenger side exhaust manifold, and maybe they saw reliability issues with heat damage? The 3.0 v6 doesn't use the rear cylinders of the v8 so presumably there's a larger gap between the manifold and the threaded hole.
On my engine, I removed the threaded plug and used a series of adapters with a -4AN braided hose to locate the oil pressure sensor away from the engine.
Watch this space!
It's only when you look at the wiring diagrams that it becomes clear that the oil pressure switch was only fitted to the 3.0 engines, not the 5.0, and since they share a block design (kinda) both these engines have a 1/2" threaded port that tees directly off the high-pressure oil feed from the pump - on the 5.0 engine this is fitted with a threaded plug from the factory (early ones had insufficient sealing resulting in oil leaks, this is discussed in a Land Rover TSB early on in this thread). I haven't seen one, but I assume the 3.0 engine uses this port to fit the oil pressure sensor.
I also have to assume that the reason they don't fit the sensor on the 5.0 is because the threaded port is very close to the passenger side exhaust manifold, and maybe they saw reliability issues with heat damage? The 3.0 v6 doesn't use the rear cylinders of the v8 so presumably there's a larger gap between the manifold and the threaded hole.
On my engine, I removed the threaded plug and used a series of adapters with a -4AN braided hose to locate the oil pressure sensor away from the engine.
Watch this space!
I did the same thing with braided hoses on my Saab when I rebuilt my engine. The sensors would tend to leak and were in such an awkward place people would rather refill oil and deal with the smell than pull the starter and downpipe
#266
08-12-2019, 11:50 PM
Update: drove car to Vegas and back for a conference - it didn't miss a beat there and back. The engine oil temp got a little hotter when going up long hills in 105 degree heat, but nothing unexpected and all in all I couldn't be happier.
Also, the engine has now done 2,200 miles since the rebuild, so I decided my self-imposed break-in period had passed and that it was about time I gave it the beans properly, and I'm pleased to report it pulls like a ****ing train and sounds amazing. Temperatures and pressures all where they should be.
So far so good!
Also, the engine has now done 2,200 miles since the rebuild, so I decided my self-imposed break-in period had passed and that it was about time I gave it the beans properly, and I'm pleased to report it pulls like a ****ing train and sounds amazing. Temperatures and pressures all where they should be.
So far so good!
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#267
09-19-2019, 12:19 PM
Junior Member
I tried finding that kind of information but it was pretty much impossible. ARP's technical support were not really willing to give any kind of a torque figure based on a torque + angle measurement of the original bolt as they'd need a few OEM originals to perform tests on which I'd imagine don't come at all cheap.
I guess one thing I can do is refit the mains using the old OEM bolts torqued to OEM spec and measure the out-of-round again to see if it differs - you're not supposed to use them again but I suspect they won't snap. Personally, I think the affects on the stiffness of the crankcase are likely to be immeasurably small and therefore I'm less concerned about that, but good to cover all these bases.
The biggest issue at the moment is that the 5.0 workshop manual has general information of how to check bore sizes, but doesn't list the out-of-round tolerance spec.
I guess one thing I can do is refit the mains using the old OEM bolts torqued to OEM spec and measure the out-of-round again to see if it differs - you're not supposed to use them again but I suspect they won't snap. Personally, I think the affects on the stiffness of the crankcase are likely to be immeasurably small and therefore I'm less concerned about that, but good to cover all these bases.
The biggest issue at the moment is that the 5.0 workshop manual has general information of how to check bore sizes, but doesn't list the out-of-round tolerance spec.
#268
09-19-2019, 01:23 PM
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GemelRover (09-20-2019)
#269
09-19-2019, 07:33 PM
Yep.
Not "plugged" as such, it's a different block casting but it is essentially the same block as the V8, exact same size externally but with two fewer cylinders.
Also both the bore and stroke are smaller than the V8 and the SC is smaller, but pretty much everything else is carried over from the V8.
Not "plugged" as such, it's a different block casting but it is essentially the same block as the V8, exact same size externally but with two fewer cylinders.
Also both the bore and stroke are smaller than the V8 and the SC is smaller, but pretty much everything else is carried over from the V8.
#270
09-19-2019, 08:05 PM
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#272
11-21-2019, 10:14 AM
Junior Member
Hi Dave, So after my engine rebuild I too have timing/restricted performance issues with what is suspected to be a phaser (though I bought all 4 new from Atlantic British and they were well packed when delivered). Have you had any luck analyzing the cause of the phasers failing? I yet have to learn how to ID the phaser causing the problems.
#273
11-21-2019, 11:16 AM
Hi Dave, So after my engine rebuild I too have timing/restricted performance issues with what is suspected to be a phaser (though I bought all 4 new from Atlantic British and they were well packed when delivered). Have you had any luck analyzing the cause of the phasers failing? I yet have to learn how to ID the phaser causing the problems.
#274
11-21-2019, 12:45 PM
Junior Member
I did replace the tensioners during rebuild and the car ran well for 50 miles. There are three inconsistent methods described in the manuals related to the mothod of installing tensioners. One manual states to simply pull the pin. Another states you need to pull pin, extend and press shaft back, replace pin. Another is to pull the pin and apply force on chain guide.
#275
11-21-2019, 02:39 PM
pull the pin and apply force on chain guide- this is correct. Chain must be stiff. If You have new 4x phaser i think you have clogged oil channel in camshafts or tensioner. If You engine is after rod bearings damage this is very propably. dirt circled in the oil system and after 50 miles it clogged the oil canal. You must look stiff chain and look holes in camshaft( oil phaser supply) and You have Strainer in camshaft. You have holes under tensioner also. Check it.
#276
11-21-2019, 03:47 PM
Junior Member
The phaser oil strainers are new. All passageways and jets were meticulously cleaned during assembly. After assembly and starting the car, I dumped the first batch of oil after allowing it to idle for an hour. I have heard from a number of sources including LR, that it is not uncommon to have defective phasers out-of the box from the dealership itself.
#277
11-21-2019, 06:13 PM
Pull the pin and apply force on the chain guide - when Jaguar state that you need to apply "considerable force" they are not f**king around. Think crowbar-levels of force. The "click" isn't as audible as the workshop manual makes out but you'll know you've got it as you won't be able to push the guide back against the tensioner.
#278
11-22-2019, 05:15 AM
The phaser oil strainers are new. All passageways and jets were meticulously cleaned during assembly. After assembly and starting the car, I dumped the first batch of oil after allowing it to idle for an hour. I have heard from a number of sources including LR, that it is not uncommon to have defective phasers out-of the box from the dealership itself.
#279
11-22-2019, 07:55 AM
Junior Member
I am still trying to figure which (if any) of the VCT units would be faulty before taking the engine apart the fourth time. Actual variable timing readings on scanner look normal but I am no expert in interpreting the values. The engine idle sound is great. Once it's running, sounds like it's made of lego gears. The VCT units change the position of the camshafts in relation to the timing chains. I did not apply the "considerable force" to the chain guides after pulling pin during install. What does that force do? To be clear, is it to ensure the tensioner has set itself to the maximum extension? Do you apply force to guide away from tensioner so to maximize the shaft extent? I wonder, why would one manual state to pull pin and another to apply force.
#280
11-22-2019, 08:28 AM
I am still trying to figure which (if any) of the VCT units would be faulty before taking the engine apart the fourth time. Actual variable timing readings on scanner look normal but I am no expert in interpreting the values. The engine idle sound is great. Once it's running, sounds like it's made of lego gears. The VCT units change the position of the camshafts in relation to the timing chains. I did not apply the "considerable force" to the chain guides after pulling pin during install. What does that force do? To be clear, is it to ensure the tensioner has set itself to the maximum extension? Do you apply force to guide away from tensioner so to maximize the shaft extent? I wonder, why would one manual state to pull pin and another to apply force.
If engine work great maybe problem is in other place. give codes.
tensioner have a few locking position. Add force to catch it on the last click possible. This ensures that the chain is properly tensioned. The tensioner may lose elasticity or oil may escape and the chain will be loose during operation. an additional click prevents this. if you helped the tensioner catch an extra click and the timing is 100% well set to the characters, everything should be fine. Enter all the codes you receive. I think you have problem on one bank. you can change solenoids and cam pos. sensor by side and look on tester whether the error code will change.