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hello everyone
please i need your help with 2010 Range rover 5.0 S/C
i have replaced the timing chain and guide but i have a issue with the timing alignement
1- position of the crankshaft woodruff key is 9 o'clock or 6 o'clock ?
2- if the crankshaft woodruff key position is 6 o'clock the 1st piston does not reach the TDC is normal or not ?
3- see the picture please when i install the lock tool to rear of the camshafts the driver and passenger intake camshaft timing mark is properly aligned with the chain timing mark
but the driver and passenger exhaust camshaft timing mark miss the chain timing mark of some teeth i don't know why!!!
but when i remove the rear camshaft timing lock tools now i can aligned all timing mark but impossible to install again the rear camshaft timing lock tools
Getting ready to do this so have looked quite closely. I believe the crank should be at 6 O'clock, no pistons should be at tdc (probably), this is typical. Looks to me that both your cams are locked in the wrong angle, looking at 3 screw locations, Are you sure they are locked correctly? Do you have the correct cam in the correct location?
thx you Kansanbrit
now the timing is ok... but i have a new big problem
when i start the car excessive white smoke out from exhaust
so i have check the valve guide is okay but i have see lot of oil in intake air on all closed valve port
i think my pcv is dead but the oil qty in intake excessive
thx you Kansanbrit
now the timing is ok... but i have a new big problem
when i start the car excessive white smoke out from exhaust
so i have check the valve guide is okay but i have see lot of oil in intake air on all closed valve port
i think my pcv is dead but the oil qty in intake excessive
how long was it running for? It could be water and cleaning chemicals you have used. Oil in intake could mean SC problem as well.
If it really is white it's is usually a sign of water, blue smoke is oil. Head gasket leaking maybe? Is the coolant level dropping? How long did you run it for? If it is residual oil in the cylinders it may take a while to burn off.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 04-14-2020 at 06:40 AM.
Hi Dave... can I ask you about the issue you had with the VCT phaser post rebuild? Do you recall what fault codes you had?
My engine is rebuilt, and with the exception of P0017 bank 1 crank/cam correlation sensor B and restricted performance, it runs great. I replaced all 4 phasers during the rebuild, only as a precaution. I'm wondering if its possible I have a bad exhaust VCT phaser out of the box. I have swapped the CMP sensors to bank 2, and the VCT actuators to bank 2 but it has made no difference.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated; I've been into this engine 4 times now and it's driving me crackers!
Hi Dave... can I ask you about the issue you had with the VCT phaser post rebuild? Do you recall what fault codes you had?
My engine is rebuilt, and with the exception of P0017 bank 1 crank/cam correlation sensor B and restricted performance, it runs great. I replaced all 4 phasers during the rebuild, only as a precaution. I'm wondering if its possible I have a bad exhaust VCT phaser out of the box. I have swapped the CMP sensors to bank 2, and the VCT actuators to bank 2 but it has made no difference.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated; I've been into this engine 4 times now and it's driving me crackers!
I have just finished replacing the timing chains on my replacement engine, no codes so far, what engine oil grade are you using?
Hi, I’m using Shell Helix Ultra AF 5w-20 fully synth as per the workshop manual spec. I’m going to check the solenoid circuit for continuity and voltage tonight. As I understand it, a lower voltage is timing advance and higher is retard. I would imagine it should closely match the other bank, which doesn’t trigger a code.
For clarity compared to DaveTibbs’ issue, the fault code triggers immediately on cold idle as opposed to when loading up the engine.
I was getting the same code as you: P0017-00. Swapping the sensors/solenoids between banks is a good idea - a quick note, the signal that's sent to the solenoids is actually PWM, with different frequencies controlling the advance. I ended up relying on using two pieces of gear, the first was my Autel MaxiDAS DS808 code reader, which allows access to the manufacturer-specific live data from the ECU showing not only the attempted advance angle but also the reported angle from the sensor. Using this I was able to see that under (even small) load, Bank 1's exhaust VVT would "struggle to maintain" the same angle that bank 2 was, and you could watch the angle drop back to 0 over a period of a couple of seconds, at which point it would throw a code and restricted performance error. The second piece of gear I used was a two-channel LCD oscilloscope, which I picked up off Amazon, nothing expensive, but allowed me to see that the signal to the solenoids on both Bank 1 and 2 remained the same, meaning that the dropping of the angle on bank 1 wasn't a wiring issue, and swapping both the sensors and the solenoids ruled out the likelihood of those being at fault - which left mechanical being the only suspect.
What caused a rebuild to be needed? Did you replace the tiny wire mesh filters inside the end of the camshafts when you had the VVTs off?
Hi, I’m using Shell Helix Ultra AF 5w-20 fully synth as per the workshop manual spec. I’m going to check the solenoid circuit for continuity and voltage tonight. As I understand it, a lower voltage is timing advance and higher is retard. I would imagine it should closely match the other bank, which doesn’t trigger a code.
For clarity compared to DaveTibbs’ issue, the fault code triggers immediately on cold idle as opposed to when loading up the engine.
Apparently they now recommend 0W-20 oil. That is what I put in mine. I think maybe the thinner oil when cold will flow better in the VVT and not throw a code perhaps.
I ended up relying on using two pieces of gear, the first was my Autel MaxiDAS DS808 code reader, which allows access to the manufacturer-specific live data from the ECU showing not only the attempted advance angle but also the reported angle from the sensor. Using this I was able to see that under (even small) load, Bank 1's exhaust VVT would "struggle to maintain" the same angle that bank 2 was, and you could watch the angle drop back to 0 over a period of a couple of seconds, at which point it would throw a code and restricted performance error. The second piece of gear I used was a two-channel LCD oscilloscope, which I picked up off Amazon, nothing expensive, but allowed me to see that the signal to the solenoids on both Bank 1 and 2 remained the same, meaning that the dropping of the angle on bank 1 wasn't a wiring issue, and swapping both the sensors and the solenoids ruled out the likelihood of those being at fault - which left mechanical being the only suspect.
Many thanks for the advice! My current scan tool only shows generic OBD II data, so I've got a JLR Mongoose cable on the way and a copy of SDD which hopefully allow me access to the manufacturer-specific ECU data you speak of. I like the look of an oscilloscope, I'll look out for one!
Originally Posted by davetibbs
What caused a rebuild to be needed? Did you replace the tiny wire mesh filters inside the end of the camshafts when you had the VVTs off?
I bought the car as a spares or repair finance repossession with none-existent history. I found a number of problems:
- Failed thermostat, which it transpired had the added effect of tricking the ECU not to send the "run" signal to the fan
- Head gasket failure (both banks)
- 4 cracked pistons (LH bank, however all 8 since replaced)
Originally Posted by davetibbs
Did you replace the tiny wire mesh filters inside the end of the camshafts when you had the VVTs off?
Regretfully, no I did not. I never removed them for inspection, I wasn't aware of their existence. I did find significant piston shrapnel in the oil sump pick-up and the oil cooler, so it could be that these filters are blocked. I've ordered the filters - I will strip it down again and inspect them before I commit to ordering another VVT.
Originally Posted by kansanbrit
Apparently they now recommend 0W-20 oil. That is what I put in mine. I think maybe the thinner oil when cold will flow better in the VVT and not throw a code perhaps.
The oil that's in the engine now is the first fill since rebuild, so could be a little dirty. I have enough of the 5w-20 for another oil change so I will do that and see if it makes a difference. I think I might swap to 0W-20 at the next oil change afterwards.
Originally Posted by davetibbs
I'm running 5w-20 without issues. I suspect Blanco has a failed VVT, or potentially a blocked oil feed.
Suspect you're right! Really appreciate the help from both of you... I feel more confident of fixing it now
Apparently they now recommend 0W-20 oil. That is what I put in mine. I think maybe the thinner oil when cold will flow better in the VVT and not throw a code perhaps.
The reason I suggest the oil may make a difference is that my engine was throwing code P0019 before I changed the chains and tensioners. I did not change the VVTs or filters. No codes yet, fingers crossed. I did swap the solenoid and cam sensor on the code throwing exhaust cam though so that may have been the problem although both tested OK on the bench.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 05-28-2020 at 07:45 AM.
Regretfully, no I did not. I never removed them for inspection, I wasn't aware of their existence. I did find significant piston shrapnel in the oil sump pick-up and the oil cooler, so it could be that these filters are blocked. I've ordered the filters - I will strip it down again and inspect them before I commit to ordering another VVT.
Interesting - it's entirely possible some metal fragments have blocked the filter on one or more of the VVT oil feeds - they are very small, like a few mm in diameter. You should be able to extract the old filters out of the end of the camshafts with a pair of needle-nosed pliers. At the very least it's cheaper to replace filters than even a single VVT.
I have been following this thread so far even though I just covered 400miles with my rebuilt 3.0D S.
I am not familiar with the engine you are working on but re changing the oil grade, bear in mind that it could impact the oil pressure significantly. I.e. although it is easier to flow, it might doesn’t have enough pressure because of tolerances in oil pump and also not providing enough cushion between bearing and crankshaft journal at high revs. You probably need to change it more regularly as well because there is no room for a lower viscosity further down the line when the oil is contaminated. adding to that, an oil with lower viscosity will drip backward through oil pump and you might end up with more time running without oil pressure during start up.
Re VVT, again I am not familiar with your engine but they are very sensitive to oil and contamination in the oil. I agree with using SDD as it might provide an option to you to see the contamination sensor readings.
an small change of subject, the engine I am running is my first DIY engine rebuild. I had a spun bearing on just one journal. I ground the crank, changed the con rod and used 0.5 oversized bearings.
I changed mains as well even though they was no sign of wear. The shop I used ground it saying there was a misalignment but I doubt. They were possibly to lazy and grinding them all is much easier for them to be sure. I particularly asked them not to touch mains!
I also changed the oil pump to be on safe side. Now after 400miles I see some metal particles that my magnet catches in oil filter (planning to do first oil change in 100miles) There are few on them about 1mmx1mm but mostly much smaller. I did clean the the oil passages as much as possible but didn’t wash the block professionally and I didn’t touch top part of right bank. Do you think I should be worried about these particles in filter or should wait for a couple of more oil changes which might be too late.
03-17-2020, 12:48 PM
