If you have a 5.0 engine...

The title says it all but, I was reading online and I found a notice in pdf format from the Independent Union of the European Lubricant Industry talking about this and calling it misleading information.

Here is the link: http://ueil.org/en/upload/docs/membe...Nov%202011.pdf

In this bulletin if you don't care to read it it says that the sobs put fluorecent die on the oil to make sure you were using it, otherwise they would void your warranty. So I was curious if this was true and I aimed a UV light to the oil and guess what! Our oil glows!!!! I took pics of course (and put them on one of my blogs) here is the link for the pictures:

Jaguar, Land Rover and Castrol fluorecent oil pics.

 

Couldn't the use of a fluorescent oil be a benefit? Seems to me that being able to trace oil leaks with a light is a good thing. Especially for the home repair blokes.

 

So what?

ueil.org is a lobby group for boutique oil blenders. Therefore, they have a strong commercial interest in raising a stink.

At most, the dye puts a dealer on alert if there is a oil related failure and the specific lubricant was not used. At that point, they cannot yet deny a claim. However, it does let them know that maybe they should look closer at what specific lubricant was used.

Both US and EU law stipulates that tying the warranty to a specific lubricant is illegal.

Another way of looking at it is that once the dye shows up, it is proof positive for the owner that the specific lubricant is *not* in question. It cuts both ways.

 

Honestly, I never thought of it that way. Let me try to stay open minded.

I feel its very very wrong for Jaguar or any manufacturer to say that the required oil for a car is of a specific brand (Moss act). My problem with this is the following:

There are better oils than Castrol, this is a matter of opinion, but I think they are better because the have higher flash point... and other chemical characteristics...

2nd problem is that Castrol over prices that oil. That specific oil in our area is only available through the dealer, or other online supliers in which there is no reasonable profit (we are not trying to rip people off but you can't pay the shop rent, jaguar OEM tools, etc, just on 5% profit on an oil change)

relativelly, again my opinion is based on test results on the oil that I found online, not trying to bring anybody down over here I could be wrong, this is a bad oil... yet we are "forced" to use it.

And just so people know, there are dyes available for every fluid on your car except brake fluid.

If we use anything else that "doesn;t glow" the dealer will void the warranty so as a respectable shop we are forced to use this, and that in my opinion is wrong... would love to put Total or Motul, which are much better, and offer better profit margin at less cost to our customer.

 

That's hardly indicative of an unbiased opinion since the whois information attached to the domain in your link to Motul products is yourself. You have a vested financial interest in the point you are pushing.

If Motul really cared about quality, they would have stayed with metal containers for their brake fluid. Instead, they chose to go with plastic while ATE continues to use metal cans for their products.

In most markets, Castrol is competitivley priced with substitutes that are generally regarded by the public as equivalents. Most Walmart's sell Castrol. Some even sell SLX Pro. And in most markets, Motul is sold at substantially higher prices than similar Castrol products. That includes online sources once shipping is factored in.

In my mind, Castrol products are good quality. Since they make a wide range of products, not all can be the best in category, but at least some are excellent.

As for best, Castrol SRF brake fluid beats any brake fluid Motul makes. Of course, it is an extremely costly specialty product. But, it is the best.

 

As I read it, it appears that this is something that *Jaguar France* did on its own.

Did Jaguar USA (or Canada, or wherever) do the same thing?

What do owners manuals say?

Cheers
DD

 

I've been through the oil requirements in all the new Jag manuals about six weeks ago, as it happens:

The new handbooks (XJ/XF/XK) have this to say about oil:

V8 Petrol engines:
SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting Jaguar specification WSS
M2C925-A only.

V6 Petrol engines:
SAE 5W-30 engine oil meeting Jaguar specification WSS
M2C913-C is preferred. Oil meeting ACEA A1/B1 or ACEA
A3/B3 specification may be used.

Diesel engines with Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF):
SAE 5W-30 engine oil meeting Jaguar specification WSS
M2C934-B only.

Diesel engines without Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF):
SAE 5W-30 engine oil meeting Jaguar specification
WSS-M2C913-B or WSS-M2C913-C.

Obviously there is no mention of any specific oil manufacturer/vendor - that would be most irregular.

 

My XF got Mobil 1 last change, from the dealer. Sorry to say this but oil is pretty much a commodity. As for Pepsi v Coke one of the major price differences effects is from the advertising budgets. Castrol cannot be selling inferior oil or the manufacturers would avoid them like the plague. Tied marketing strategies are everywhere and in every consumer oriented business. They work because of conversations like this where the relative merits of otherwise virtually identical products are enthusiastically debated!

 

As the owner of an '11 XFR, all my service is free until the warranty expires, or, at least it was included in the price of the car (although, I did pay $200 for a "peace of mind" oil change when I first bought the car as a low mileage dealer demo). So, it doesn't really bother me that they "reserve the right" to void the warranty for not using their specified oil. Besides, companies always wrap a lot of legal language around things as a sort of protective mechanism, even though the great majority of them would never hold up in court.

Admittedly, I don't know enough about engines and oil to have an opinion on whether there's any justification to them voiding the warranty if their "high-end" oil isn't used, but it makes sense that it's a way to protect themselves from people dumping crud in their cars and blaming the manufacturer for any related issues (which I understand is probably not a reality). But, I'm going to put the best I can afford in my car, anyway; I actually took Pennzoil Ultra and K&N oil filters to the dealer for use on my '09 XFS when the service wasn't free, as it was my humble opinion that they were the best available. So, if Jaguar feels strongly enough about it to mandate it while the car's under warranty, that works for me.

And, as someone else just mentioned, it could deliver the added benefit of being a great traceability factor for any leaks, etc. For example, manufacturers purposely include fluorescent additives in antifreeze fluid so that black lights can be used to detect antifreeze splashes for various reasons, including not only detecting coolant leaks in the engine bay, but also helping investigators reconstruct automobile accident scenes. So, given these factors and probably several others of which I'm unaware, it doesn't seem like an altogether malicious or litigious practice, with the sole intention of voiding warranties.

But, where I might take issue is that only the Jag dealers can change the oil (on the newer engines, anyway) by vacuuming it all out, rather than draining it, and then adding their oil, because both the equipment and oil are said to be exclusive to them (see attached pix of the equipment and oil). I understand that might not necessarily be true, but it's what they told me when I first inquired about it, so it seems like there could at least be some effort to hold us over a barrel (pun intended).

Hey, maybe just add a splash of antifreeze to whatever oil you'd like to use and call it a day. Ha-ha.

 

<snip>



Which is what I expected. Thanks for posting your findings.



Yes it would.

I think this is a case where *Jaguar France* went rogue and was rightfully slapped down a bit.

Cheers
DD

 

Which is unlikely the case anyway, as least as far as a specific *brand name* goes.



Exactly.

Car manufacturers love you to use their franchised dealerships and the products that carry their label and/or they have a financial interest in.

They don't particularly want to end up in court, though.





Agreed, "not a reality" because there probably isn't any commonly available motor oil that is SO bad or SO far below requirements that it would damage the engine....at least in terms of outright engine failure.

IMHO, a mass producer like Jaguar has no interest in engines that are SO sensitive to motor oil. It would be a warranty and public relations nightmare.





I agree.

FWIW, my experience with manufacturers (not Jaguar, I admit) is that that are very reluctant to deny warranty claims based on what brand name of fluids are used. Very reluctant. they just don't want to "go there". And, legally, they probably can't.

Abuse, yes. Neglect, yes. Wrong specification fluids, yes. Brand name....no.




Anyone else have experience with this "requirement" ?

Cheers
DD

 

People will spend $50-60,000 on a car and ask if it's alright, to use regular gas, when the car has 11:5 compression, just to save $10 a month. And, some, will actually do.

The engine was built to a certain specifications. Every oil is going to be slightly different from one another. If that's what they require, then no other oil should be running in the engine. Again, people will cheap out and put anything in there.

There is nothing wrong with having a dye in the oil. If i was at the top of the chain at Jaguar, i would do the same.

 

but here in miami you call the dealer to buy a 5.0 engine oil filter and they require you to buy the castrol oil because they can only sell it to you "as a kit". Both dealers. We have the tool to vacuum the oil out and do it the right way. Perhaps my opinion is only different and biased because is affecting my repair shop job and you guys are right. But I still think there is something wrong with that.

and about the dye, I never needed a dye in the oil to find an oil leak personally... and if that was their intention why not put it on the bottle "this oil has dye to help you find leaks"

 

Bloody nonsense. The very idea. In fact, if I caught someone using a vacuum pump on my engine I'd slap them about the head with a copy of Hilliers and take my business elsewhere.

 

Ah! The voice of reason.

 

If I were concerned about keeping a Jag dealer happy about their "special oil", and if I were to change my own oil, I just might buy a small bottle of that glow-in-the-dark additive, of course..just for the heck of it, some of it just might find it's way into the crankcase, ........just sayin.............

 

It really isn't about some owners being cheap. It's about car manufacturers *requiring* a specific *brand name* lubricant.

As it turns out they apparently can't, and this appears to be a rather isolated thing involving just Jaguar France.

Cheers
DD

 

ha!!!!

 

An OEM can and frequently does require that fluids meet a certain spec. The DOT rating of brake fluid and octane rating of fuel are two common examples. If a car is damaged as a direct result of unsuitable/non approved spec. fluids being substituted, they're well within their rights to deny warranty.

It seems that Jaguar simply requires the use of oil meeting a certain spec, as mentioned above by jimgoose. This oil seems to be offered by atleast one other manufacturer, not just Castrol.

Mobil 1 5W-20

What's the big panic?

 

Jaguar "recommends" Castrol in their cars. I have been using Castrol Syntec in my cars since it came on the market and don't plan to change it. I know some mechanics that change customers synthetic oil every 5k miles, save it to use in their own vehicles for many more miles. Requiring a particular brand of oil is like requiring a particular brand of gas/petrol.