hi all, I have my 2010 xfr in for a bunch of work including timing set. Through a bunch of work and back and forth with Jaguar discovered my xfr has a different timing set than newer 2010, 2011 and newer. Jaguar ordered the parts with the vin. an update, one that they say requires new cams to use. Long story short they are getting the set that matches mine but they can't seem to figure out the why it was updated or why the vin didn't show the correct set. My tech seemed to think the set on my car were better built than the update. no service bulletins explaining or indicating this change according to Jaguar.

Jaguar is going to take the parts back and get me the correct ones i'm just extremely lucky I use the shop I do.

thank you eurotys

 

Yes the pitch of the chains was changed.
Here is a picture of what the two different chains look like.



The 8.0mm stuff is the only style available now as Jaguar obsoleted the 6.35mm version.
.
.
.

 

any idea why they changed they? ur opinion which seemed better? kinda rough deal when you have to change cams to install the upgrade. I guess Jag found what I needed to get mine back together with new old stock

 

That's a VERY interesting question! This is all second hand too so I may have got some things wrong.

The original 6.35mm stuff is better all around compared to the 8.0mm stuff so I have been told by more than one person. When the 5.0L was designed it was late in the Ford ownership period. Jaguar was sold in 2008 and the new 5.0L was already to go and no changes could be made before the introduction. Tata purchased them and later changed the timing stuff to 8.0mm as a possible cost cutting measure. Don't know for sure but I hope some experienced people will post what they think?

Also note when the 5.0L was introduced the two front coolant pipes that have caused so much trouble came in Aluminum! Then changed to failure prone plastic. Again the early factory Aluminum version are long obsolete too. Maybe cost savings as above?

Don't know but neither of the changes were to improve the engine in my opinion.
Really surprised you were able to source new 6.35mm parts? Supposedly they are all gone?
.
.
.

 

So far, every JLR car I have done had what I now call 2nd gen timing components (the ones where the tensioners press into the aluminum guides) on many 2010-2013 cars. This 2010 has this style (which I consider 1st gen now). All parts from JLR and confirmed with VIN. I then re-confirmed all parts after pieces not quite matching up.

From Parts dept at Dealer:
"The timing component that were used on this vehicle originally were only run for approximately a year and a half to two years. The VVT's have since been discontinued and new version has been made. There are no parts bulletins or service bulletins stating this. When I called technical support they told me that the camshafts are different between the two timing styles. Unfortunately, this was not known to us and and we got all of the new style components"

No one at this Dealer (in Naperville, IL) had this show up before.

 

Appreciate all the knowledge, this experience is a eye opener i've been a gm guy since I got my license in 1979 this is my first foreign performance car. Its hard when you don't know much and live in central Wisconsin. The number of knowledgeable repair shops for these beyond the dealers is small and the dealers are a hour plus away. Thus, I was lucky enough to find Mike although eurotoys is 2.5 hours away I always have and always will have faith that he will do right by me and my baby.

there is so much knowledge on this site and I appreciate everyone's desire to share.

 

Also you should not need new cams at all, just new cam sprockets because of the redesigned chains. The sprockets will not be cheap but still a helluva lot less in parts and labour than new cams!

 

the dealer told my shop that the cams would need to be changed to facilitate use of the new set? I guess i'm gonna end up better anyway as they did find all the parts I needed to do what I originally wanted which was to replace everything.that was in there (before upgrade) Mike seemed to feel like the original stuff was of better quality than the update and I guess being the price was much higher for the original stuff not the upgrade he is likely right

communication within the Jaguar company seems to be sloppy as this should never have happened on a car that was $84K in 2010? thats 116k in todays money not many Jags you can't buy for that

 

I was puzzled by the cam change too OzXFR? The sprockets just bolt on to the front of the cams? I did not know that any cam changes were made at all on the 5.0L SC engine?

To go further into this problem here is another issue unrelated to the chain pitch design change and this is really the root cause of the timing chain/tensioner problems. The tensioner rail is pushed against the timing chain using an spring and oil pressure driven tensioner. In the original design they used a steel pin in the tensioner pushing against the back side of the rail which originally was just plain Aluminum.
You can guess how that worked out!

Yes the steel pin worn down the Aluminum and caused the chain rail to run out of adjustment. Now the chain is running with slack. All DOHC engines just beat the crap out of the tensioners because of the wild and weird engine dynamics. The chains actually experience micro reversals as well as start and stops. So these are dynamically very active all the time. Once you get some slack in the system it's just a matter of time until failure occurs!

This is the time period where a observant owner "might" be able to hear chain rattling and get it fixed BEFORE something lets go and destroys the engine.

Here is a big thread by XJsss that helps a lot!
Timing Tensioners

Here is the original setup with the steel tensioner pin wearing into the back of the Aluminum guide shoe from the above thread.



Here is the updated chain rail with a steel button providing a wear point for the tensioner.




Now there is also a third variation that has what appears to be a rubber/plastic block of some kind that the tensioner pin applies force too. I do see where it is mentioned that this rubber variation was only used on the early 6.35mm Tsubaki chain set?
I can't find any info about why the rubber design was updated? But this style is rare and I have not seen many of them so I think they were only used a short time before being replaced?




.
.
.

 

The dealer said the cams would need to be replaced in order to run the 8mm setup. The 4 cams would be $2500 by themselves. I can confirm that if you install the 8mm chains, guides, phazers on this car, you will end up with cam/crank codes immediately after starting. I tried to validate all parts 3x with the Dealer before I finished the 1st assembly, they said that's what it took. I then pressed the issue over 1.5 weeks since taking it back apart, they finally agreed that the parts were off and they called tech.

 

Anybody have anything to add to my earlier thread?

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...issues-269088/

 

I think they are wrong when they say you need new cams.

FYI My 2010 had and still has the better 6.35mm chains etc.

 

Yes thank you kansanbrit! That thread was the one I was looking for. Your pictures were a big help.
.
.
.

 

I think the issue is that their is something different with the 8mm phazers and that requires different cams. So far, I believe them! Just got running today with the old phazers and new NOS chains/guides/tensioners. No problems now.

Mike

 

Should I replace my 6.35mm Tsubaky chain, guides, and tensioners? If so, what parts do I need from Jaguar? Or should I do a conversation for the 8.0mm INA chain belt? I have 2010 Jaguar XFR