might be!

 

You do you have the XFR baby.... I was just busting ***** in my quote ! LOL

 

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Good stuff. I am currently an owner of 2003 stype and I have been thinking of buying a xf, used of course. I have test drove three and love pretty much everything about it. My only complaint (this is not Jaguars fault) is that there are too many other cars on the road that look like it.

In my neck of the woods, you are starting to see more and more Jaguars, especially the xf. Most of the owners I have talked to are not previous jag owners. They have been put off by BMW s reliability or they grew tired of their merc and wanted something different.

For me though, when the funds are ready, an xf is definitely in my future. Like I said ,it may look like other cars on the road but it is simply a better driving experience.

 

I have a 2013 XF and all I get are compliments and conversation. There is an older XF and a new XJ in town. You really don't see them as much. Most people just love the car.. I know I do.

 

Is that snow coming down in the pictures??
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Exclusivity is great. Most people who know me, usually act as if i was driving a Ferrari. Nobody reacts the way they do to the pool of German cars. But, if i had to do it again, i would have bought a BMW or Mercedes. They are much better engineered cars.

 

Ex,
You have been one of the bigger supporters of the Jaguar brand here on the forum for quite some time, so I'm a little shocked and curious as to your change of heart. I hold no judgement because I tend to agree with your sentiment from a technological standpoint.

 

He's giving up the hot/exciting dangerous girl for the homely looking girl with child birthing hips because it's the "safer choice". Probably not true but super funny.

 

Exec,

Have you owned BMW's and Mercedes? I agree that in many waysvJags may utilize less complex engineering. After my last BMW and based on associates experiences I picked a jag because they didn't seem over engineered to a fault.

There are two people I work with that own Porsches. They're quality seems to be consistent with a high level of engineering.

 

This is kind of funny…….before deciding to buy my first Jag, I talked to a retired Jaguar senior technician and he said "don't"…buy a Porsche. Well obviously I didn't listen and after 2 years with a XF-SC I still really enjoy driving her with zero problems, but I keep waiting for something to go wrong. There is something just not "solid" enough when I push a button or step on the gas (not consistent results) or hit rough patches in the road and listening to "real" body creaks (suspension/bushings ??) (not the sun roof) (better when it is hot outside)etc etc…..why do I keep it……feels right, handles nicely and moves !!!

 

>after 2 years with a XF-SC I still really enjoy driving her with zero problems,

And for that I think we still owe a debt of gratitude to Ford for the engineering and product development expertise that they brought to Jaguar.

Since, after all, the XF is based on the S-Type which shared it's design/platform with the Lincoln LS and the last Ford Thunderbird.
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Jaguar - it's not an automobile, it's a Motorcar

 

ttboonie,

You are right, and thank you for the acknowledgement. I have just grown tired of the small annoying issues. I am constantly in and out of the dealer for the same problems.

Now that i have gotten to know the car, there are some things that i don't like about it such as the steering. It has way too much road feel, jitters and i feel every little imperfection in the road.

Looks only go so far. Once novelty wears off, it's a different story. You don't live with person's looks, you live with their character.

And, yes, i would take the home looking girl over a "hot" one. The ones i have met so far, i can't even have a conversation with.

Yes, we have 2011 C 300 4 matic and it's been phenomenal. Everytime i drive it, makes me want to go back to the dealer unload mine for an E class.

 

Exactly what I like about the steering in my car. It's all about your own preferences, I guess.

Ironic, though, that BMW is spoken of favourably in the last few posts. Weren't BMWs supposed to be drivers' machines up until recently? Now they are largely well made but overpriced, clinical and dull to drive status objects, with steering completely devoid of any meaningful feedback (new 3 series, anyone?), turbocharged engines with soft throttle response and confused styling that looks neither sporty nor classy/conservative. Contrast this with Jaguar: relative value for money, fun to drive, rack and pinion steering with real feel, supercharged engines with decent throttle response, and distinctive styling with real panache and flair. And as for the German engineering, well, if you want to go on the basis of anecdotal evidence, you will find plenty of people cursing their Bimmers and Benzes for irritating defects and glitches...

 

Exec,


I'm curious exactly what it is that makes you feel that the Germans have superior engineering?


Two sets of thoughts on the subject:
-I feel that my 2010 XFR arguably carries the best transmission technology that's available to this day. The day to day driveability of the transmission is way beyond the double clutch transmissions that I've driven (granted I haven't had my hands on the latest and greatest) and I'm hard pressed to criticize the transmission at getting the job done in any way shape or form.
-From a power perspective the engine reaches the 100 hp/litre. While the engine does it with a supercharger it also delivers a god like smack of torque that naturally aspirated engines will never achieve - again I can't fault the level of power, the broadness of it or the very silky way in which it delivers.
-Speed sensitive steering and dynamically dampened suspension also bring the car into a completely different realm than a car of this weight and power could have previously belonged.
-Yes, when it comes to 'techie' stuff the car is somewhat basic, but to be honest it does everything I want with the lone exception of streaming music via bluetooth. I don't see this as being an attribute of a great car, rather, the reason I looked past the M5 was because the car was hobbled by menus and crap I just don't want to deal with. A button on the steering wheel to get beyond 400 hp? There's an elegance in simplicity that is lost today.


My second thought comes in regards to craving something simpler. Personally, as far as cars on the market goes this is formula that is sadly missing. A V8 powered car with a simple mission, sounds great, looks great and put the power down beautifully is what I crave, in an almost retro way (not design and not a muscle car). I'd like to see the car devoid of electronic wizardry, fuel saving measures/tech and excess complexity in the interior. A timeless, basic and powerful car that is so clear in purpose just isn't available. In fact, I wish the F-Type were a touch simpler.


For me, this formula would create more driving enjoyment than a tron like blitz of technology and configurability.


Anyway, those are my thoughts on why the Jag is great and how it could be even better.

 

I agree with Executive on the small annoying issues. Don't get me wrong, I love my XFR to death. I think its styling, uniqueness, and rarity put it WAY ahead of any of the German competition for my dollar. That said, the small issues that have popped up in the very short time I've owned my car so far (3 months) shouldn't exist in a car of this price range.

I've had a bad strut on my front left suspension that took 3 trips to the dealer to fix (and I'm actually not completely convinced it's as it should be). I've had a sunroof that went bad the first time I used it, which ended up being completely replaced by the dealer. UNfortunately I now have an unacceptable amount of wind noise at highway speeds necessitating a a 2nd trip to the dealer to be adjusted further. I've had an annoying rattle coming from both front doors that I've been unable to narrow down the exact source of. My driver's door is also drooping slightly, to the point that there is metal on metal rubbing at the top edge, this will need to be adjusted/fixed by the dealer. And I have incessant squeaking from the passenger side door seals that return within a few days of me lubricating them with Silglyde.

None of these issues in isolation are a big deal, and none have impacted driveability, and admittedly I'm **** about my cars being in perfect working order at all times, but they are super-annoying (especially so when I've had Japanese cars such as Infinitis and Lexus that would work for YEARS without the slightest of abnormal noises or rattles).

 

Sounds like a V8 Vantage. Fabulous car with road feel, beautiful handling balance and a sense of occasion no Jag can compete with.

 

Way too much road feel for me, as it prevents me from using all the power that it has. I don't feel comfortable going too fast when my steering has vibrations going through it. It rails my concentration away from paying attention.
Should be able to put a 1 finger on the steering wheel and speed up or slow down as aggressively as possible without the slightest movement.

I still think BMWs are the ultimate driving machines. Do you know of a sports sedan that outdoes the M5?
BMW is still the benchmark in most segments, that's why most car companies still trying to compare themselves to their line-up.


I don't really care about the technology in the cars. I buy cars for the driving dynamics.
German cars don't have the small issues that i have been experiencing. And, on top of that, i am not very huge fan of the steering as mentioned. There is no need to feel for the vibrations through the steering wheel, as it's supposed to be a luxury car.

Part of the problem is that it has too may Ford parts integrated into it.

Lastly, I am sure, both in MB and BMW spend way more time and money engineering and testing cars, which usually results in better product. Just the AMG division of Mercedes has few hundred engineers alone. That's a lot of engineers. Most car companies barely have that many as a whole.


Exactly!!!! When i first bought the car, I just kept saying "it's okay" "it's okay", but now I just refuse to accept the annoyance.

I do think as the time goes on, Jaguar will be putting out vehicles with much higher quality.

 

I'll assume the "vibrations" you refer to are related to road feel and that there is nothing wrong with your car...

Like I said, it all depends on your preferences. I can't imagine anything more dull than a car as numb as the one you describe as your ideal. Reminds me of my old RS6 - a real unplug your brain and your emotions, point and shoot car. Oh so one dimensional. The only time I really loved that car was in heavy snow, on my work commute, when having fun was way down on the priority list.

Re: the M5, it depends on what you define as "outdoes". From a numbers standpoint and a build quality standpoint, no question, it rules. When it came time to turn in my '10 XFR lease, I seriously considered one. Fortunately I had an obliging colleague at work who owns one, and he let me give it a proper try out. Crushing speed? Check. Insane mechanical grip? Check. Turbo lag? Check. Nasty four cylinder style engine drone? Check. Bland styling? Check. Balance adjustable on the throttle at sane speeds? Uh... nope. Fun at sane speeds? Nope. Steering feel? Negatory. Glad I went with my XFR-S...

Most Bimmers are NOTHING like they used to be. My wife drives an X1. Relatively old power train compared to most 'up to date' BMWs with - shock - no electric steering. I tried to persuade her she needed a new 3er up until the point we test drove one. I was shocked. It drove like a Lexus. At least the X1 bore a faint resemblance to past 3ers.

 

It's partly that and if i take my hands off the wheel, you can see it jitter from left to right. I have been back to the dealer 5 times and it's still doing it. You want to call it normal, that's not up to my standards.

Would you consider Koenigsegs a dull car to drive? It's a 1000hp super car. Look up some videos on it at the factory and tell me if you still think if a good steering has to transfer everything from the road to the cabin.

Jaguar builds beautiful cars, but i personally like the M5 just as much, maybe even more from certain angles. Matter of preference.

Don't get me wrong. The XF is an amazing performer, that's why i bought it. The interior is one of my favorite parts on the car. Well executed car, but if they spent a lot more time getting rid of the small issues, then it would be perfect. But, until then, they have a lot of work to do.

 

Sorry to hear about your "jitter" issue. But I never said I want to "call it normal". Sounds decidedly abnormal; neither my current Jag nor previous one did anything like that. Hope you can get it sorted out!

As for the Koenigsegg, well that came out of left field in a discussion on BMWs and Jags... Sorry, can't pass judgment on that one as I have never had the pleasure of a drive, nor can I imagine how one might judge its steering from a video. Unless of course, you have actually driven one, in which case, I am jealous, and what was it like?