Wait a minute. I was told that

"Absolutely amazing that it took you this long in life to figure out the hard way that expensive European luxury vehicles aren't as reliable as a Toyota Corolla."

But the Porsche brand is 6 spots ahead of the Toyota brand for dependability??? And the BMW brand is equal to the Toyota brand. Honda didn't even make the top 10. Last I read Porsche and BMW are expensive European luxury vehicles.

So much disinformation here....

 

Can't believe what you read on the internet...

I guess that's why I erupted there, and I apologize for it, I have been active on other boards for years ( like I said, Saab Volvo, Mercedes, MG/Triumph, Honda) and have seen more Driveway Jewelry people on here adding no value that love to pontificate about how awesome their car is (except maybe BMW drivers but we all know they are dicks anyway)

I will say when its awesome and when its not, share weird issues, chime in when I think I can add some value, share a FAQ or repair tip/technique ( but never berate anyone for not listening ,I only gloat and say told you so lol)

When I got back into Saabs in 1997 I bought my First new car ever (New Generation 9-3) just after they discontinued the Classic-900 and hit the boards for maintenance tips and advice. GM had just bought Saab ( and ruined it according to the Classic Saab Drivers) I was accepted regardless and compared to my new car to the old in terms of repairs and build quality GM helped so much but I did have to slap some people in the face with it once and while ( might as well join the fray here in much the same way haha) but they came around.

Saabs were engineered incredibly, some of the best tech went into their engines than even a super car and they led the way in Turbo cars that now all brands are migrating toward after 40 years.

Build quality was a bit to be desired though, Rust, misaligned body panels, creaking dash stuff like that) but wow their parts were made of the best materials best manufacturing techniques and yet priced pretty reasonably. Aftermarket did not compare (but it helped that with such low volume Aftermarket suppliers in China and elsewhere were not interested. That's why I commented here, I'v seen better quality Aftermarket parts than Jaguar and wanted to share.

 

@Jssaab

I can not think of any other brand that went through as many ownership changes as Jaguar did. As has been stated before that a basic Corolla or Kia Rio is statistically less likely to have issues because it is a basic car. How much innovation does a company like Toyota/Lexus or Kia put out? Virtually none. They just do the tried and at most copy other brands. Nobody ever talks about the aluminum construction (think no rust and hence longevity) of Jaguar cars. Nor the driving dynamics of models such as the XE. What about styling? It is the best looking car in its class, same with the XF. Sadly the average American consumer does not appreciate such things and just expects nothing to go wrong ever.

There is much more in evaluating a car than "reliability." I use that term sarcastically because to me an unreliable vehicle is one that gives you random problems out of the blue.

Jag issues are usually centralized and well-known and hence can be corrected before it leaves stranded somewhere. Having an alternator go bad at 50k is not indicative of the brand being low quality. I am sure JRL does not manufacture their own alternators but buys them in bulk from the actual manufacturer. Perhaps the guy that assembled the other member's was not feeling his best that day and screwed something up. This is assuming the battery was still healthy and did not contribute to the demise of the alt. I once purchased a rebuilt unit from AutoZone for one of my cars and it lasted maybe 10k miles.

 

Now that's some effort, where do you come up with the time to find all this information. I must say you have changed my mind. You obviously have us Jaguar owners mistaken for somebody who gives a **** about your/everybody's low opinion of the Jaguar brand. We don't care. We are not standing on a soap box indicating they are the most reliable vehicle. Don't you get it??? it doesn't matter when your smitten with a certain brand of vehicle. It is what it is. You fix what's wrong and move on. You had a bad experience... big deal. You have the right to pop off any time about your experiences so if you feel you need some attention have at it. Your not changing any minds. Most exotics have issue's. Most econo boxes do not. Wow what a revelation. Time to move on.

 

There's this thing called the internet. I typed J-A-G-U-A-R Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y with one hand while eating a piece of pizza at my desk just like I'm typing this while drinking a coffee. Mr. google told me that and I cut and pasted it. You can try it too.


.Um well yeah, obviously you do, Nuff said

I had the experience I expected, I love buying a 60K car with 60K miles on it for 13K because of the poor reliability after a few years. You have to realize some folks paid sticker and thought otherwise. In fact the car I bought was listed for 18,500 at a Jag dealer and then I came back with a list of known issues (SC coupler, leaking SR, no reverse camera ) etc and they sold it to me for wholesale. Lucky for me and the guy I protected, who would have come in and loved the car and bought it without asking the right questions and then would come on here and get lambasted and insulted for not "knowing any better" or that of course an old jag is a piece of cr@p, and in your words "get over it" followed by an insult. Not good form there.

I guess you did not read the thread, don;t blame you, I can get long winded. I was merely trying to tell members here to be polite to someone and not to " pop of on someone" who does not love the brand or know it better than their significant other's favorite kink and bought one and needs help or feels screwed. If we can talk them through it let them know how things can be fixed etc we can calm them down maybe we will have another owner who will share the love, for the brand I mean, kinks are a personal preference. Pop off on the brand all you want and I won't take it personally, you shouldn't either ( unless of course you own shares or are head of product quality, so then yeah it might feel personal but I assure you its not personal at all @hole jk--- lol of course that's a joke and directed at said fictional head of quality,) I don't; want you to think that is directed to anyone in real life. Although I do expect someone like that exists and Jaguar and is ashamed of his job. Well maybe only after 90 days and he got the JD award and a bonus and whatnot.

For me, Actually I have not had any more issues than I would expect for a company that sells beautiful cars that are cr@p. I love the brand, I have had 4 of them (looking at 5) starting with a V12 XJS in 1984 that I bought used at a chevy dealer that the guy bought a Vette at (smart man) Needed a trans so I got it for a song and threw in a nice 350 turbomatic in it from a, get this, Chevy. It had the common seat back breaking issue and my father built a part for it. He was a machinist so i had access to a full machine shop when I needed. Lucky for me because I just bought a Jag lol. Even then I loved the brand because resale values are most likely the worst. I was able to drive a Jag in Grad school that only cost me 2K and people thought I had money (just like a lot of owners here )

And now may neighbors say wow nice car and ask how old since they now I get the used cars and my wife the new ones.

I will need to google J-A-G-U-A-R R-E-S-A-L-E V-A-L-U-E-S ( sorry just did that to save typing at lunch I can cut and paste while eating a sandwich, I'll let everyone know in a later posts (oh but we already know never mind)

I only posed here because one member personally attacked someone and I saw him -(and others) do that on several of the forums , A person who had an issue with his car and felt misled or under the impression that because these cars are expensive they should be quality. You can set a person straight without calling him an idiot or whiny just because people who love the brand and "were in the know" I wanted to say not everyone does know that and you can enlighten folks nicely.

On the Saab boards you would have gotten "oh sorry to hear about that, we feel your pain, here's some help" . I would love to start seeing that here. (or I would have gotten a BMW)

End of rant #2

I

 

Let me get this straight:

-You bought a $65k car for $13k with 60 miles that you have not had any issues with.

-Yet you did not like the way the tie rod was manufactured despite this part, again, never giving you any issues.

-You claimed the entire brand is junk and posted a mountain of questionable propaganda.

-Now you claim to love the brand.

-That is after claiming to like Saabs. So why didn't you purchase another Saab instead of the XF?

 

Please delete

 

Not true at all, I just said I don't have any issues with all the problems because of the low purchase price. I will edit and clarify that thanks for pointing that out.

And if you read (or re-read) my entire post, I love the brand, I was commenting on how people who point out that its not the best in the world get flamed (like this)


I posted about the tie rod because the title of the thread was poor quality OE parts from Jaguar. I know about this since another member posted about needing tie rods in another thread. You can literally see the poor quality in the Jag Tie rod. How do I know? I've seen them and then someone posted that they needed new tie rods because the rubber had disintegrated after 4 years.That is poor quality, I had recommended to them and posted the Lemdorfers and said that they wont do that and cost 1/3 of the price.

And seriously an alternator that can be destroyed by a bad battery, since when is that good parts (or great technology) Good to know that now thoguh< iw ill get a new battery once I see a sale. See I leanrded something new by being a member here. That is some condolence for dealing with abuse for my point of view.

Um no... I did not say that anywhere that the brand is junk, just that the cars are cr@p. The brand includes design (elegant, Sexy) interior materials (nicest leather all over) and a bunch of other things, which I like. I posted what Mr Google told me. If you have any outside unbiased info to refute that as propaganda, please share. As of now the only propaganda I see is right here in front of me. (BTW propaganda is information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular point of view (Webster's). Like those of a member of a forum about the cars maybe?? If the information i pasted was from a BMW board or Mercedes itself, then yes I would challenge it. I consider Consumer Reports and JD Powers as facts.

I do, and being here despite the ridicule and abusive treatment of new members and differing points of view I must, don't you agree?



Well I would have but Saab stopped making cars in 2011, you probably did not know that because they are all still on the road. Finding one with low miles that does not look beat up is getting harder and harder and they are too expensive compared to a newer Jag with less miles... If you come across a 2011 9-5 Aero with less than 100K miles for less than I paid for my 13 XF I will jump on it. Thanks for looking.

 

Forgot to reply to this one Here ya go:

2 ownership changes is that a lot? Happend to Volvo too, and Saab... And we are not talking about problems with any jaguar innovative tech. Like I said using 22 gauge wires on electronics outside of the cabin is not something an engineer who cares about quality would do. And don't give me weight savings .. its a tired excuse, all companies car about weight savings. And seriously, have you ever used Jaguar touch screen Nav or controls. if that's innovation yeah I will take Lexus any day

We are talking about thinks like alternators and tie rod ends, not high tech ****. all cars have them and Jag just uses the cheapest they can find. I guess they figure if they can get it through the warranty period (or at least the JD Powers 90 day window) and into the secondary market where non-jag loving fools go to loose their life savings the dealers will make their money back in drove reinstalling cheap profitable parts. It is almost assured these new Jag lovers will take their cars into a dealer because they need special tools, the right diagnostics and there is a world of mechanics who won't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

Ok now this is apples (Kia) and oranges (Lexus), but I think Lexus (oranges) has a bit over Jaguar (Lemons) but that is debatable, let's start a new thread.

Not Lexus for sure, google is your friend....

Hahahahahah did you just say longevity and Jaguar in the same sentence. Let me fix that for you:

Mercedes S-class, Audi A8, Cadillac CT6 Tesla are all Aluminum too, BFD.

I wish the XF or XE was locked down as well as the Lexus IS cars, have you ever driven those cars?? Lexus developed the Dynamic Handling system that is a dream, check it out. (oo there's some technology for you. )

The new 2020 XE might be comparable now that you can get an optional dynamic handling model so it may compete with a 2018 Lexus that introduced this tech. Oh wait, I thought they just copied Jag, maybe its the other way around... hmmm.


Ian Callum Retired last month, did you know that? I died a little when I heard that... I wonder how things will look going forward (the new XE was his last at the helm I believe).

I already stated the styling is incredible, sex on wheels my female friends would say back in Grad School. I knew a guy who had RPM on his red XJS Convertible. When asked for what it stood for he said Red Pvssy Magnet (misspelled on purpose) .
Driving dynamics for a heavy sedan are pretty good, but back in the day my XJS would lumber around corners and my XK8 had a hard time getting out of its own way in the twisties.

But yes I will agree with you, its not a Jag, and I love Jags (or yes I would have one of those most likely)

Was that a joke? I hope so. This whole thread is about a car that gives you problems (out of the blue) from poor quality parts. In fact the whole forum is about just that (ok mostly). Just because you, as an avid Jag lover, knows about them that does not reduce its randomness, it just makes it less chaotic (to you) HAHA I am a bit of a nerd so I hope my Math humor resonates with some folks here.

If I did not love them I would not put up with stuff l like that. Preemptive maintenance is an oxymoron, maintenance is for normal wear and tear.

It is indicative a brand quality by using low quality OE parts especially since it is a "known" trouble spot to Jag Lovers. But we love them anyway.

Sadly, did you just say a rebuilt alternator better than OE brand new? Goes to the argument of this thread exactly. Can;t JLR buy alternators from Bosch or someone with better quality? instead of "bulk from the actual manufacturer" JLR maybe should use the Denso alternator that Lexus uses? You can buy a new Denso from anywhere for a jaguar for $250 bucks and it will be better than the $750 OE one any day. (So will as a rebuilt one from autozone I think you said) So why does JLR use their cr@ppy one that seems is killed by a bad battery? Isn't part of quality about the partners you pick? it is in my industry

I've seen a few times on here where people here are told that a poor condition battery will destroy a perfectly good alternator, Either way its poor quality parts that jag uses of some type of poor technology in the charging system that allows this to happen . Pick your poison. Still kills your argument either way. Again just because Jag lovers know its an issue does not make it ok. No one should take the position of we know that will happen so no big deal, its just wrong in so many ways. If you have kids tell that to your wife next time you give them crayons and they go at a wall in your house, see where that excuse gets you. You still love your kids tho...

IN the end, I love Jaguars and would not any any with their horrible quality if I did not, but I am not going to pretend to be a fool and say they are good cars. Rolex keep horrible time but I own a few as jewelry, a Timex is a better watch for keeping time that but I don't own any.

I have to go now, my sandwich is too big to type with one hand and I'm hungry

 

Nigel Blenkinsop is director of Jaguar Quality and Safety. Let's hope he focuses on the safety part or we are all screwed

 

If you have no issue with the problems you claim you've had then why rant about them in this thread?

I don't think there is such a thing as the best brand in the world. Each one has strengths and weaknesses. That was quite the strawman. We pointed out that you can't expect nothing to ever go wrong, especially on a loaded luxury car.


It can be. Especially if the owner let the battery go low or dead many times. It could simply be that modern cars with all their electronic systems draw a lot of current and strain the alternator. Probably why JLR is bringing out 48v systems. There are too many unknowns here to conclude they used low quality alternators. Especially based off ONE case. If this was a reoccurring theme then would have something to work off of.

Who is abusing you? You came here to trash the brand and claim Saabs are better made and what not. You were met with opposing opinions. It is forum, forums often have debates.


JLR is in the car manufacturing business, nothing else as far as I know. If you claim the cars are junk or crap then that is saying the brand is. I would never buy something I consider crap no matter how good it looked. Therefore it was a logical question to ask why you did.



I know what propaganda is, thanks for the semantics lesson. I also know that propaganda can be positive or negative depending on its aim and whether it contains truth or falsehoods. This is why I called it questionable because I don't trust these studies. I have heard they are capable of being paid off and what have you. Then you often have different brands changing spots each year making them further suspect.

The 9-5 is actually the car I was thinking of when you said that you like Saabs. That is only two years older than your XF. There are plenty of them for sale with low mileage. Here are two:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=204997461

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Same price or less than your XF.

 

On topic, Jaguar reliability appears to be sketchy:

• XE, second to bottom but above a merc:
  • https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-wh...-survey/n17810
• XF, equal 2nd (X250) and bottom (X260), but below ze equivalent generation germans:
  • https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-wh...-survey/n17811
• Brand, Jag 28/31:
  • https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-wh...-survey/n17826

I love my XFR: I describe it as the best car I've ever owned, but also the least reliable I've ever owned. I don't like reading forum posts where people slate Jaguar's reliability, but that's an emotive response from me as an owner of a heart-led car purchase. The idea that Jaguar are 'more reliable than equivalent euro models' appears to me to be hollow rhetoric spouted by jag fans, rather than a correct reflection of reality, but equally I don't think the differences between modern cars' reliabilities are that big. In summary: nothing to get worked up about either way.

Off topic: I am concerned that this may get overlooked in the subsequent flame-fest:

Whilst I applaud your attempt at maths humour, I would just like to point out to other viewers that chaotic behaviour (which is deterministic) is fundamentally different to randomness, so I'm not sure where the joke is.

No oxymoron: 'preventative maintenance' is a legitimate type of maintenance, distinct from say 'corrective maintenance'. The word 'maintenance' does not preclude either, hence no oxymoron.

 

I didn't rant about any of my problems. Read what I wrote, I am HAPPY these cars have problems that I can easily fix and owners who want to dump them. Makes them cheap and plentiful.

I did rant about people on here abusing others, not me. (frankly I don;t give a hoot about anyone here trying to bust mine, if someone has no significance in my life you I will get what I want and leave, no hard feelings )

"Popping off" on someone calling them an idiot or basically implying that is uncalled for and childish. Leave personal attacks for the schoolyard. I can only hope I am dealing with adults here but you never know on the internet. Talking smack about the brand is an opinion, if it hurts anyone personally they need to get a life, for real.

Anyone who came here looking for advice that their jaguar sucks and the OE parts used on a jaguar being inferior. They were flamed. Everyone agreed with them but flamed anyway. ( Yes you and others agreed - said "well known issue," preemptive maintenance" - makes me laugh every time I hear that ) I did not appreciate those answers and I agreed with them and I became victim of flamery. And Here we are now.

I have seen this with now 3 people who randomly complained about problems that should not make sense in anyone's twisted mind for a car of this cost ( and brand recognition) Frankly "deal with it", "move on", or "I could care less" is not that helpful or welcoming don;t you think??

And seriously, "known" issues are called defects. Tell me that you think a car of this caliber should be sold with this many defects? Just wondering where your quality line is.

With the number of these defects that I have heard about on here people should have nothing other to say to someone complaining about them other than "yeah that sucks, sorry you thought differently" So instead they are attacked and berated. If you need actual quotes that will take me few minutes to put together and I don;t really have time for that ( Not that it would be hard to find just SOOO many and I will likely want to send them off to the moderator if I took that time and see where they land.

OE parts for Jag suck, and you said it as well with your autozone alternator comment and I think we are in agreement there since you said don;t expect good quality from a jag like a cheap econobox that you would not want to be seen in. I have seen that many parts have been "upgraded that were "known issues" Cooling hoses for one a think. At times Jaguar must care about quality, maybe when the warranty repairs reach some threshold.

Well could have been said nicer is what I am saying. Its not like they came on here and insulted your first born child, and that's how some people acted.

BTW that was the nicest way of putting that out there I have seen in this thread, compliments to you for it

Again, that was nicely put, thanks for the logical non-emotional position. Nice to show some empathy, we've all been there when something we know is a defect pops up and we say dang, like watching a freight train in slow motion crush a car. We should ask them if that was the case and maybe we could get down to the real problem and not just say it happens suck it up.

I didn't notice anyone abusing me. Like I said I never called anyone and idiot and would not notice if I was called one since I don;t give a flyinf**k. I was reacting to others who were abused and came to agree with them. I was flamed for sure. Not gong to call that abuse tho.

No I did not trash the brand, I love the brand. I am not sure I get where this is coming from. I said the cars are cr@p. The brand, racing tradition, Ian Callum, XKE. I love small volume manufacturers that don;t change their styling much ( it makes old cars look new to people who don;lt know them. I get lots of comments about my XF asking if its new and am happy when I say not its 6 years old.

Haha now you sound like my wife. Why did I buy it? Why did I marry her, there are more beautiful girls out there ( in her mind, to me she's stunning) Just like a Jaguar she has her known issues but I happily deal with them to get a chance to ride her (oops I mean live with her)

Had an XKE poster in my Room, My friends dad had one and we helped him restore it. Pulled the engine apart, all magnificent 12 cyl. It got my heart pumping (until I met Carol Freiberger, but then I digress)
When I was little I loved the XKE, thought it was the sexiest thing around (until I met Carol Frieberger,) Did I already mentioned that?

I love British cars, had my first MGB when I was 16, then Had a triumph Spitfire, Then another when that rusted so bad I could not drive it any more. Then another MGB and a then a midget. Restored a 1976 TR6 to 98 point car and sold it for a down payment on a house. I currently own a 92 pt 1975 TR6. And you know what? They were all pieces of cr@p. Lucas was the prince of darkness, I put in more u-joints in the independent suspensions than I could imagine, clutches, a trans here or there, rebuilt stomberg carbs every year. but I loved those little pieces of cr@p. At shows all of the owners laugh about the times we broke down but still loved the little b@stards. But if anyone wanted to buy one I would say , they are pieces of cr@p but I love them. (like a parent who accepts their kids for who they are. just like i love my XF,


Happy to debate, I enjoy it if that's not obvious.

First I will let your use of the word semantics slide because I can get your meaning (lol see what I did there).

I will say that is a much more rational explanation than calling it propaganda, I'm not sure why you used that term, it is inflammatory at best but your argument now is logical. Well played this time.

Thank you!! So very nice of you. Yes I am always looking. So yes a car that is from a dead brand 2 years older (and that is a great price 13,500 is where that generally is) and originally that sold for 40% less than my XF, same miles is but is only 2000 less and the other is quite nice, love the white all my cars are white, but $3000 more, hmm funny how that works. Should the XF be less than a dead car brand, 2 years older same miles, impossible to get parts, gotta wonder why.

I owned 2 9-5s, a 2000 and a 2003 Hirsch 9-5 that was my company car in Europe and not available in the states. I brought back after transferring form France for my company Hirsch was Saab's version of the AMG. Saab would send them our for tuning and parts to increase performance.

Had that car since 2003 and just parted it out after 230K miles of fun. Hit a dear and can;t get the parts, Hirsch shut down years ago and I did not have time to fix the car custom . This is what my XF replaced:

325 hp 350 ft-lbs tq in a car that weighed only 3200 lbs. The SC AWD XF is nice now that its tuned but is is one heavy car. Saab would still take it from 60-100 mph.



I'm ready to surrender now because I think we've met each other in the middle, and we can agree to disagree ( that the cars are wonderful cr@p) lol

But I will pop up to call out anyone who gets personal in attacking someone, but attacking the brand is ok in my books as well as defending it as long was in defense of the brand there is no offense to a person.

I do think we need that list of "known issues" and put that in the FAQs for anyone venturing here for the first time. what do you think. I will start, but I have only had experience with a few, I will need people deeper into ownership than me to help.

Enjoyed the rapport, thanks again.

 

That was the joke, not random at all exactly the opposite. He's saying these events are random but he meant chaotic, unpredictable based on known issues. At least in my limited understanding of math. BTW my son just got his master's in Mathematics at Northwestern and is headed for his PhD at Yale so any math I know I hear from him and catch most likely .00000000001% But thanks for chiming in.

He said preemptive, not preventative, changes the meaning entirely. I figured you missed that.

 

Three if you count British Leyland. Who knows if there won't be a forth soon.

The days of engineers being given a blank check to use the best possible everything and engineer the best possible systems are long gone. I imagine this is especially the case at Jaguar because of Tata bean counters wanting to earn back on their investment. If said wire is known to fail prematurely then you might have a point but if it works fine then who really cares? Armchair engineering is easy when critiquing one part of a vehicle but when you're the actual engineer that has to make A work at price X because we need enough funding for B then it's different.

Lexus copied the German brands several years after Audi introduced MMI in the 2004 A8 which was two years after BMW introduced the first system in the E65 7-Series.
Lexus is a fancier Toyota that does not hold a candle to the history of Jaguar, their brand prestige, nor the iconic cars they produced. Where was their XKE or XJ220?

I have seen X300 cars well into the 300K mile range. Also have seen X308's with 250k miles on the clock. We have members daily driving models from the 80's.

I was talking about aluminum construction. For somebody that lives in the Rust Belt this is certainly a concern, plus the weight savings.


Those cars also priced well above the XE save for the Model 3 Tesla. Although I did hear the 3 is actually selling for closer to $50k. Maybe somebody can clear this up. I don't know much about Tesla.

The next generation C-Class will be aluminum. Which Lexus is aluminum?

I have not driven one and don't care for four wheel steering. That's 80's tech that was simply brought back and refined.


No, my OEM alternator went out at around 110k miles. I went cheap with a rebuilt one from AutoZone and that lasted only 10k miles. Gave it back to them and purchased an OEM one and it has has roughly 180k miles on it now. Recently I did leave my lights on for an hour and when I came back and started the car I heard the alternator making an unusual noise until it pumped up the battery. It will probably be time soon to replace it.


Mine were very good cars and I never had any quality complaints. Never left me stranded, always started in the coldest of winters and so on. Plus Roll-Royce level oppulance and actually fun to work on. Yeah..they can't be beat, at least not at this price point.

I am interested to hear about two Saab models: The 9000 sedan and the newer 9-3 that came out around 2003. The 9000 was always a car that cought my eye, can't remember the last time I saw one on the road. I was thinking about buying a new 9-3 when they came out but being GM owned Saab I was wary. What is the story on their demise? Did GM play a major role? This is where is you clearly know a lot and I know next to zero.

 

Well...... are you insinuating I'm a little slow? Not up to speed? Maybe I should report you for bullying... Help I'm being picked on! My feelings are hurt. Now how to contact a moderator for this unacceptable behavior. I'm confused were you eating pizza or a sandwich? Yeah I'm bored.

Note: the question was "where do you find the T.I.M.E.", not "where did you found the info." but I suppose stuffing your face you missed that part. Careful or you will become over weight?

 

I thought I read somewhere about Aluminum in the Lexus. I thought the CT6 was equivalent to the zXF not XE. And the Audi S8 the XJ so the price-points are about the same

Not sure I agree about the Rolls Royce "Opulence" comment since RR is over the top, but it freaks people out when I tell them the dash is leather and all the leather is from the same cows to preserve the grain and those cows are kept away from barbed wire and mosquitoes to keep from getting marred. Very nice indeed.

Yeah I like brands that not everyone has, so here I am in a jaguar from Saab. I like the Jag because they don;t change out the model or body style every 3 years and so few people know them they think they are new. Same with Saabs. the 9000 Aero was faster than a Ferrari Testarossa 60-100 mph. There is a Jeremy Clarkson Video that he shows that, its a hoot. I will see if I can find it. Saab was low volume producer (like Jag) with devoted fans (like Jag) so they are not so common except here in the Northeast and Northwest. Plenty here on teh road every day. I lived in Memphis with mine and got tons of confused looks.

Here is a Portlandia video about the 9000, I laughed so hard I cried at it...
My 9-5 was my company car in Europe, I happened to work for a Swedish Company, how funny is that. , When I came back I got an XFR as a company car and used the Saab as my daily...

I had a bunch of Saabs, I liked the quirks. And they were deceivingly quick. I had one that was well over 350 HP (dynoed at 335 at the wheels) with just a bigger turbo and Intercooler and exhaust. The engines were bullet proof (except if you used Dyno oil in the 9-5 and 9-3)then they sludged and seized I had a Convertible Viggen in Lightning that would hold its own against a coworkers 911 AWD convertible. Pissed him off so much he would not want to talk to me in social settings haha

I felt GM helped, their build quality was awful and they rusted to pieces in the years before that. Built by Trolls in Trollhatten was really a joke that the Swedes were drunk when they built them To lots of Saab purists that was sacrilege. But just like jags I loved them all.

On the business side, GM loaded Saab with all their EU debt as a tax dodge and that didn't help. The biggest mistake Saab made was hubris. They had access to perfectly adequate technology form GM (like radios and what not) and ignored it to develop their own., The new 9-3 you like had the first Fiber Optic sound system. It was developed after GM bought them. GM left them alone too much and Swedish engineering and design is quite amazing. So they ignored GM as inferior. Even things like door latches were not good enough for Saab so here you have a low volume producer designing door latches and farming out minuscule production numbers. They could never bring the cost of the cars down far enough like that to make a profit for GM. ( Which would have worked if Saab had used a little of their parts (like even steering components or transmissions) or other technology.

Saab also developed their own engine management system in the late 90's and it was unbelievable. It uses ion detection of burn in the cylinder using the spark plug resistance to detect knock BEFORE it happened. It allowed tuning to the edges of performance and economy. My Turbo 9-5 did 30 MPG in 2000 (23 city) with 230 HP on tap and a flat torque curve from 1500-red line. Unheard of at the time. The cars moved. When the new 9-3 came out they were supposed to switch to a Bosch system but again built their own. Bosch was not good enough for them but they had caught up in the intervening years.

Well Saab is dead, not to me, but here I am. I expect to contribute here and learn as well. I just will always be that guy to stick my nose into an argument that devolves into personal attacks and name calling.

 

If you must know and I don't have a vague idea why, I ate pizza on Tuesday Night when typing, and a sandwich Wednesday at lunch.

Wow dude, chill. I did obviously hurt your bully feelings, Sorry I got under your thin skin, I'm just a nameless dude on the Internet. I tell my kids all the time why do you care what they say about you when they are insignificant to your life. Maybe take that advice and I will repeat it , " I, Jssaab, am an significant piece of dog doo", why let me upset you? ( bullied myself there lol) I was trying to explain that it does not take that much time to find and paste what I did as a response to your comment. Took Maybe 10 minutes? And I did it one handed. I don't really know maybe do it your self and report back? You can use 2 hands if you want.

I have lots of time on my hands, how I spend it is my thing. I tried to explain that it does not take much time to find that info or paste it.

Yes your attack is personal, what does my eating habits or weight have any bearing on this discussion other that to try to rile me. This is what bullys do, but you are not so good at it. I used my example to show you that it does not take much time to find info like that. Your comments about me had nothing to do with anything pertinent to the discussion.

So Yeah report me. and lets see what else moderators think about your behavior vs mine. I frankly don't care enough about what you do or say to me ( I have said that multiple times here) to even read your stuff on here, but as far as I can tell there is no block feature here so I will have to deal with your nonsense. But jump on someone else here and you will be annoyed by me again, it seems quite easy. .

I obviously hit a nerve, sorry I was trying to be funny. I apologize sheesh. I dunno why it bothers you so much.

@AJ16er and I seem to have found a common ground and I will enjoy interactive banter with him. You still have a chance to join that club but like I said I don't care and neither should you. Just keep your personal attacks toward yourself, they are unbecoming of a Jaguar owner ( I hope)

 

Oh **** your on to me.

 

So my P2187/P2189 codes turns out to be broken diaphragm behind the valve cover. Several days works to the tune of $2k. Anyone know if this is covered as part of the powertrain warranty? They are checking with Jaguar.

So it continues....