The current XF 2016 models versus the M Series. Okay lets do the real honest performance comparison.


The fastest 2016 XF is the 3.0 Liter V6 380 HP versus a BWM 5 Series

The is no news on the higher performance 2017 XF models to compete with the M5 Series which offers a 4.4-liter BMW M TwinPower Turbo V-8, 32-valve 560-hp engine. Combines two M twin-scroll turbochargers with variable valve control (Double-VANOS and Valvetronic) and high-precision direct injection

BTW Plus the M Series has the exhaust in the "euro spread" (just inside wheel base) versus the "unisex spread" version of the 2016 XF, while the pre-2016 XF with the the 'performance spread" !

 

Here is the Jaguar UK website Customer Competitive Comparison and how Jag "compares itself" with the competition

http://comparison.jaguar.co.uk/

The current 2016 XF is focused on the BMW 5 Series 535 Saloon(Sedan).

Here is the USA comparison site - without the 2016 models

http://compare.jaguarusa.com/Compare...l/Compare.jsp#

 

IM CONFUSED... what is you post about? any comparison with an BMW M would be with an XFR.... worthless to compare any other motor configuration against the M, might as well compare a mini van

 

If you're going to do a comparison, do it against the car it's actually trying to compete with. The M5 is a $100,000 car where the XF is only a $60,000 car. Jaguar will most likely bring out an XFR and possibly and XFR-S, but that will probably next year.

 

Yes I was not clear in my initial post - this thread is a general comparison of XF models versus BMW models

1) The current 2016 XF models compete against the BMW 5 Series.

2) If a new performance model is to be released then yes a comparison against the M5 Series is appropriate - but I would submit that the current XFR-S has abysmally failed to compete in the M5 series market. So Jaguar should not repeat this failure. This leads me to the conclusion that the new XF performance model should be radically positioned differently - price and performance, features.

 

I think you are a bit confused by Jaguar here?

The XFR-S is a dress up package. It is NOT an XFR at all. It is supposed to look like the XFR but not have the capability or cost. This is actually to compete with the BMW M sport idea.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-BMW-M-Sport

As was posted above compare like to like. The XFR to the M5. You should compare the XFR-S to a BMW M Sport.


In fact even BMW calls the M sport a trim level.


So the XFR-S and the BMW M sport are for posers who hope people can't tell the difference between the real XFR and M5.
There is a difference but it cost real money!
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I think you confusing the XFR-S with the XF-RS.
The XFR-S is the full fat performance car with a tweaked version of the XFR motor, 550 HP v 510 HP.
On the other hand the XF-RS is the dress up model with a much more mundane motor.
It makes a huge difference where that little hyphen is placed!

 

Actually the XFR doesn't stand a chance against the M5. The RS does.....
In 2013 the RS was spanking the M5 but BMW has come back with double-barrels and now the RS is lacking seriously against the M5.

I would hope that Jag understands not *everyone* wants an M5 but wants M5 performance. Jag...are you reading this???

 

Mmmm I think you are 100% mistaken in your use of the model names by Jaguar !

I called it an "XFR-S" which is the 550HP model. There is an XF R-Sport model which I think you are getting confused with the XFR-S. Please check the Jaguar website to realize the difference.

I use the term "M Series" and not "M sport trim". I do know the difference. I could have been more correct and use the official term 'M5 Model", but I figured M Series to the well informed is understood not to mean trim level.

For the record the difference between the XFR and the XFR-S is not simply a 'trim' level - so you are misinformed-confused there as well.

Yes, although while debatable the "M5 Model" (560HP) can be compared with the XFR 510HP but the XFR-S 550HP is a better comparison.

Thanks

 

HI I agree on your comments and that is exactly what I want for the new "XFR-S" model.

 

I think that is why Jaguar does not refer to the model as the "XF RS" as it is called the "XF R-Sport" or even "XF Sport"

 

Thank you OzXFR!


That hyphen does make a difference.


I just found out that Cadillac also does the V sport thing. One step down from the V but has all the visual options.
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YES JIMMY , WE ALL get that....the point, that you missed ,was to compare like to like.. jag vs BMW.... notice how i didnt throw in some other brand of fast car?

 

the new XF's looks like 09-11 2 door 3 series, specially the exhaust, which is not that attractive

 

Totally agree the Jaguar has messed up the exhaust - trying to BMW is a sign of defeat.

 

the 2016 xf is bad ***...........love it

 

IDK, for the $65k price I'd just do a 707hp Hellcat Charger, and call it a day.

 

What criteria are you guys using to justify the comments "abysmally failed" and "lacking seriously"? Those are pretty strong comments, even hyperbole I would submit.

Is it lack of sales? I do not have knowledge of XFR-S sales, although the production run is rather limited compared to the number of M5s made. And if sales are your only yardstick, then the entire Jaguar brand is an abysmal failure.

Perhaps "performance" is the yardstick? There will always be a faster car or a car that has more mechanical grip etc. etc., so someone will always end up being disappointed if this is what matters to them above all else. The very reason I am happy with my XFR-S is because it DOESN'T feel like an M5, and that it feels like a Jaguar. It doesn't pummel the road into submission with tons of mechanical grip (but no delicacy or feel), and it has a lightness of weight to the controls that make it more relaxing to drive. It has straight line, cornering and braking performance that is more than enough for any public road. Acceleration is delivered in a linear, smooth fashion without turbo lag, and cornering is malleable and throttle adjustable precisely because the suspension is engineered to deliver feel, feedback and interaction as opposed to endless grip.

And just look at the cars. This will always be subjective, but again, as with the way it delivers its performance, the Jag appears designed to appeal to our sensual sides as a way to enhance the daily experience, not to "crush ze opposition" in that stereotypically Teutonic way.

So from my perspective, I hope Jag continues to do what they are already doing, because I think it is a success!

 

+1
I manage not to wonder why oranges are not apples. If I want an orange then that's what I buy and if I want an apple... guess what I do.

 

First of the Jaguar XFR-S is a "really" special car - congrats to all of you who have one.

It really depends on your standards of perfection and comparison. ! And yes based on sales jaguar is in bad shape.

The good news is XE is beating up the BMW 3 series in head to head comparisons e.g.,
So when and if the new Jaguar XFR/XFR-S is released, all that I and others are asking is for this model to outperform the M5 on all counts, since there is not going to likely be many made available then go that extra mile and make them "really", "really" special.

Hyperbole perhaps