2011 XJ Report Card - One Year.
#21
05-30-2011, 07:58 PM
PWL - had I not read your username prior to reading the thread, I would have swore that I wrote that myself. I have had EVERY issue that you had, plus a few extras. If you haven't read any of my threads, you'd see that after almost 6 months (two of which were spent in the shop), I'm STILL fighting with Jaguar to replace my vehilce. It seems every issue you had, I had the same issue - less them replacing my vehicle.
I'm curious. Who did you talk to to get your car replaced? Your dealer? Service manager? A rep at Jaguar? Or did they do it on their own? I'd like to know, because I can't get anyone at Jag to lift a finger to get me in a vehicle that doesn't operate like a POS.
I'm curious. Who did you talk to to get your car replaced? Your dealer? Service manager? A rep at Jaguar? Or did they do it on their own? I'd like to know, because I can't get anyone at Jag to lift a finger to get me in a vehicle that doesn't operate like a POS.
#23
05-31-2011, 07:54 AM
#24
06-01-2011, 05:31 PM
1) While I orginally thought the desgin was kind of cool, sleek, etc. I no longer view it this way...the back end (mainly side profile of rear), frankly just do not look so good in my opinion. After looking at it for a year now, I do not like the sytling. Front part of car is great. In my mid 40s and looking mid 30's, I sort of look silly in this car, or out of place. Definitly more of an older guys car, just like the prior XJ.....the experiment of them trying to get the younger guys in worked only momentarily.
Last edited by blackxj; 06-01-2011 at 05:34 PM. Reason: typo
#25
06-01-2011, 09:51 PM
I am in my late 30s. I work in an office full of women in the late 20s and early 30s. You should stop by and ask them what they think if you believe this is an older guys car. They all love it, still - after 5 months of me owning it. I park in a lot full of Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus, and Porches that they walk right past every day and don’t think twice about.
#27
06-03-2011, 10:38 AM
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You don't walk around in 6 inches of snow in flip flops too do you? If you did would you blame the flip flop manufaturer?
#28
06-08-2011, 10:51 AM
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I've had an XF s/c through tree brutal northern winters. The snow performance was OUTSTANDING. But the car was equipped with top notch performance winter tires.
These cars, nor arny other, are not meant to be driven in winter with summer performance tires. i assume the XJ is similar to the XF in this regard.
To run performance or even all sewason tires on a rear wheel drive car in snow country is simply idiotic. If you can't afford the winter tires, you can't afford the car.
These cars, nor arny other, are not meant to be driven in winter with summer performance tires. i assume the XJ is similar to the XF in this regard.
To run performance or even all sewason tires on a rear wheel drive car in snow country is simply idiotic. If you can't afford the winter tires, you can't afford the car.
#29
06-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Good point actually. I grew up in Germany (Munich) and know a bit of drivin in snow and mountains. Despite all that I was amazed how little winter mode does if not combined with proper tires. Can't avoid getting good winter tires. Period. It may be moronic to drive with summer sport tires in the snow. But it is definatly not helping to call it "wintermode" and suggest that would do the trick. Well, that is marketing I guess.
#30
06-16-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm back, after a long absence, to give my report card on the 2011 XJ after about a year of ownership. EXCUSE all the typos, I am not editing this!
First, my initial problems are well documented in these forums and are legendary. Snap, crackle popping...fixing, breaking, fixing, etc. Vanishing TFTs, power windows possessed by demons, freezing radios, navigations, dvds, stereos, stuttering engines, fumes, etc etc. Every possible problem, I had. To the point, I was give a BRAND SPANKING NEW XJ after 3,000 miles. I must give credit to Jaguar, for doing that at no additional charge - though the lemon laws would have kicked in anway.
Now, for the replacement car, I must say I have had virtually NO issues with it functioning improperly, though ironcially, I did just the other day notice another roof pop or two, but for most of the past 9-10 months, it was quiet as a mouse. But all in all, it has operated with no malfunctions.
Despit this, I will be dumping this car in a month or two for a 2012 CLS AMG63. A car that is only about $8-10K more than the XJ SC I have, but a full second faster 0-60...go figure.
So, what about the XJ?
1) While I orginally thought the desgin was kind of cool, sleek, etc. I no longer view it this way...the back end (mainly side profile of rear), frankly just do not look so good in my opinion. After looking at it for a year now, I do not like the sytling. Front part of car is great. In my mid 40s and looking mid 30's, I sort of look silly in this car, or out of place. Definitly more of an older guys car, just like the prior XJ.....the experiment of them trying to get the younger guys in worked only momentarily.
2) Too much interior chrome. Looks great when you clean it, then looks messy after that. It attracts every touch, smudge, print, etc., and there is a bit too much plastic in other areas. Impossible to keep clean.
3) Poor visibility to sides/rear. You sort of get use to it, but still. This is a car where the blind spot monitors really are useful/needed.
4) Trunk space is almost a joke for a car this big. A car this big, you would think has a decent size trunk. It's "adequate" at best. Very undersized for how large the car is.
5) Dealyed "punch" when you kick it in. I've no idea how superchargers are suppose to work, but there are most definitely times when, from a standing stop, or rolling start, you slam the gas pedal down and absolutely NOTHING happens for up to 2 seconds. Now, it does not always do this, but a 1/3 of the time, yes, it does. This is ridiculous quite frankly. This is not a malfunction of any sort that I can see, but just how this supercharged engine is design...I mean, this is not something that is fixable. You just deal with it. 2 seconds may not seem like a lot, but it to it is. And most of the time you probably are not punching it down.
6) Car fishtails a lot. Again, maybe this is normal for cars of this nature/amount of power. But punch it going around a turn and the rear end slides on you (with or without those fancy buttons pushed, which i never use).
7) Car is 100% an absolute JOKE in the snow. Forget about it. I mean, I have had real wheel drive cars before, and they can still be driven in snow - albeit carefully. The XJ is downright dangerous. TWICE this past winter I got stuck, when other cars did not. Once having to be towed, and once SLIDING backwards down a hill into traffic as the XJ just could NOT get up this incline. Mind you, I'm not talking a lot of snow either. Just a little. In fact, it is most dangerously RIGHT as it starts to snow, and you get that thin layer. The tires just cannot grip. This is 100% reason NOT to get this car, unless you want to change tires in the winter, and what average person does that? So many times I had to leave it in the garage and use my wife's car. If you live somehwere where it does not snow, no problem.
8) The fucntionality of the audio system is wonderful. Mind you, the "sound" is nothing super special and very overrated (it's good), but the funcionality is great. From the way it can play songs, display, browse, USB, ipod, stored discks, satellite functions, displyaing information, etc. One of the best I've seen - once you get to learn it. Very good system in that regard.
9) Navigation, again on the car that "worked" right, is also pretty decnet, and the voice commaned worked flawlessly. A bit annoying though, that is reminds you of where you need to turn, like a million times and far before the turn is coming up.
10) Touch screen, on the car that "worked", worked well, though impossible to see it in teh sunlight. Whereas the TFT, you can generally see in bright light.....when it isn't vanishing. I will say also, that the novelty of the TFT sort of wears off. I prefer to have real guagues back now (or a mixture). Also, very annoying that every time you change volume, the entire screen stops to tell you taht you are changing volume. This is a bit annoying and dealys you.
11) Heated seats get so hot, so fast you will burn your rear end. This is good, though when you turn it way down, or off, it tends to keep pumping out heat for some time. I guess they work too good. Massage function is cool at first, but then sort of annoying.
12) Auto lights do not work well. It needs to get dark before they turn on. Most cars they will turn a bit before dawn/dusk...but this XJ waits to the very end to turn on. So you find yourself turning them on yourself. The high beam assist works very well and the foward alert works very well and is an excellent feature.
Well, that's all I can think of for the moment. Was it worth $93K? Probably not. Though I list a number of issues above, they are not major, except for the snow issue. The car drives big, looks big, does not handle corners at high speeds nearly as well as people say or as is marketed. But if you're a 50+ guy who drives casually, jingles change in your pocket, and will change to snow tires in the winter, it could be a great car. I will say this, every valet who takes it just RAVES about the car. I have had nice cars in the past, but the valets really seem to love it. I seem to think mainly as they just dont' see many of them at all. And if you're not accustomed to seeing the TFT, you sort of think it is cool - at first.
First, my initial problems are well documented in these forums and are legendary. Snap, crackle popping...fixing, breaking, fixing, etc. Vanishing TFTs, power windows possessed by demons, freezing radios, navigations, dvds, stereos, stuttering engines, fumes, etc etc. Every possible problem, I had. To the point, I was give a BRAND SPANKING NEW XJ after 3,000 miles. I must give credit to Jaguar, for doing that at no additional charge - though the lemon laws would have kicked in anway.
Now, for the replacement car, I must say I have had virtually NO issues with it functioning improperly, though ironcially, I did just the other day notice another roof pop or two, but for most of the past 9-10 months, it was quiet as a mouse. But all in all, it has operated with no malfunctions.
Despit this, I will be dumping this car in a month or two for a 2012 CLS AMG63. A car that is only about $8-10K more than the XJ SC I have, but a full second faster 0-60...go figure.
So, what about the XJ?
1) While I orginally thought the desgin was kind of cool, sleek, etc. I no longer view it this way...the back end (mainly side profile of rear), frankly just do not look so good in my opinion. After looking at it for a year now, I do not like the sytling. Front part of car is great. In my mid 40s and looking mid 30's, I sort of look silly in this car, or out of place. Definitly more of an older guys car, just like the prior XJ.....the experiment of them trying to get the younger guys in worked only momentarily.
2) Too much interior chrome. Looks great when you clean it, then looks messy after that. It attracts every touch, smudge, print, etc., and there is a bit too much plastic in other areas. Impossible to keep clean.
3) Poor visibility to sides/rear. You sort of get use to it, but still. This is a car where the blind spot monitors really are useful/needed.
4) Trunk space is almost a joke for a car this big. A car this big, you would think has a decent size trunk. It's "adequate" at best. Very undersized for how large the car is.
5) Dealyed "punch" when you kick it in. I've no idea how superchargers are suppose to work, but there are most definitely times when, from a standing stop, or rolling start, you slam the gas pedal down and absolutely NOTHING happens for up to 2 seconds. Now, it does not always do this, but a 1/3 of the time, yes, it does. This is ridiculous quite frankly. This is not a malfunction of any sort that I can see, but just how this supercharged engine is design...I mean, this is not something that is fixable. You just deal with it. 2 seconds may not seem like a lot, but it to it is. And most of the time you probably are not punching it down.
6) Car fishtails a lot. Again, maybe this is normal for cars of this nature/amount of power. But punch it going around a turn and the rear end slides on you (with or without those fancy buttons pushed, which i never use).
7) Car is 100% an absolute JOKE in the snow. Forget about it. I mean, I have had real wheel drive cars before, and they can still be driven in snow - albeit carefully. The XJ is downright dangerous. TWICE this past winter I got stuck, when other cars did not. Once having to be towed, and once SLIDING backwards down a hill into traffic as the XJ just could NOT get up this incline. Mind you, I'm not talking a lot of snow either. Just a little. In fact, it is most dangerously RIGHT as it starts to snow, and you get that thin layer. The tires just cannot grip. This is 100% reason NOT to get this car, unless you want to change tires in the winter, and what average person does that? So many times I had to leave it in the garage and use my wife's car. If you live somehwere where it does not snow, no problem.
8) The fucntionality of the audio system is wonderful. Mind you, the "sound" is nothing super special and very overrated (it's good), but the funcionality is great. From the way it can play songs, display, browse, USB, ipod, stored discks, satellite functions, displyaing information, etc. One of the best I've seen - once you get to learn it. Very good system in that regard.
9) Navigation, again on the car that "worked" right, is also pretty decnet, and the voice commaned worked flawlessly. A bit annoying though, that is reminds you of where you need to turn, like a million times and far before the turn is coming up.
10) Touch screen, on the car that "worked", worked well, though impossible to see it in teh sunlight. Whereas the TFT, you can generally see in bright light.....when it isn't vanishing. I will say also, that the novelty of the TFT sort of wears off. I prefer to have real guagues back now (or a mixture). Also, very annoying that every time you change volume, the entire screen stops to tell you taht you are changing volume. This is a bit annoying and dealys you.
11) Heated seats get so hot, so fast you will burn your rear end. This is good, though when you turn it way down, or off, it tends to keep pumping out heat for some time. I guess they work too good. Massage function is cool at first, but then sort of annoying.
12) Auto lights do not work well. It needs to get dark before they turn on. Most cars they will turn a bit before dawn/dusk...but this XJ waits to the very end to turn on. So you find yourself turning them on yourself. The high beam assist works very well and the foward alert works very well and is an excellent feature.
Well, that's all I can think of for the moment. Was it worth $93K? Probably not. Though I list a number of issues above, they are not major, except for the snow issue. The car drives big, looks big, does not handle corners at high speeds nearly as well as people say or as is marketed. But if you're a 50+ guy who drives casually, jingles change in your pocket, and will change to snow tires in the winter, it could be a great car. I will say this, every valet who takes it just RAVES about the car. I have had nice cars in the past, but the valets really seem to love it. I seem to think mainly as they just dont' see many of them at all. And if you're not accustomed to seeing the TFT, you sort of think it is cool - at first.
#31
07-07-2011, 05:01 PM
Senior Member
I owned a 2006 CLS 500 and traded it in for a 2008 CLS 63. I loved that car, obviously. The first time I saw the 2011 XJL I almost gave myself whiplash and I wasn't in a car! So I knew MB was updating the CLS and waited to see how I liked it compared to the whiplashed induced XJL I had seen. I purposely didn't test drive the XJ until I saw and drove the new CLS. I bought the XJL. It drives "lighter by a long shot" than the CLS. The CLS interior is very snug. Since I didnt have to sit in the back seats I wasn't aware of how awkward they were. Since buying the XJL everyone tells me how uncomfortable getting in and out of the CLS was. The CLS is smaller on the inside than the E class and built on the same frame. The XJ and CLS are not in the same class, period.
My sister owns a 2008 QP and when she got into the back seat she whispered to my mom sitting next to her, "This is nicer than my Maserati.". She couldn't see the slight smile on my face.
My sister owns a 2008 QP and when she got into the back seat she whispered to my mom sitting next to her, "This is nicer than my Maserati.". She couldn't see the slight smile on my face.
#32
07-07-2011, 09:42 PM
You're right--you really can't compare the XJ with the CLS. Different sized cars completely. That being said, the XJ really doesn't behave like the big car that it is, primarily because it has a lot of reduced weight due to the aluminum body and the motor is fantastic, especially with the supercharger. As a former QP owner I can testify to the fact that the back seat (and the car in general) is tight and more in proportion to the CLS. If you're a big person, you will not fit well in a QP--I'm only 6' and I couldn't move the driver's seat back far enough to be really comfortable and with the seat all the way back it really cut into the rear seat leg room. Personally, I don't like what MB did to the new CLS--too angular and the rear end looks like a VW Passat. I really liked the old one, especially the AMG with the spoiler and quad round exhausts.
#33
07-09-2011, 07:53 PM
I owned a 2006 CLS 500 and traded it in for a 2008 CLS 63. I loved that car, obviously. The first time I saw the 2011 XJL I almost gave myself whiplash and I wasn't in a car! So I knew MB was updating the CLS and waited to see how I liked it compared to the whiplashed induced XJL I had seen. I purposely didn't test drive the XJ until I saw and drove the new CLS. I bought the XJL. It drives "lighter by a long shot" than the CLS. The CLS interior is very snug. Since I didnt have to sit in the back seats I wasn't aware of how awkward they were. Since buying the XJL everyone tells me how uncomfortable getting in and out of the CLS was. The CLS is smaller on the inside than the E class and built on the same frame. The XJ and CLS are not in the same class, period.
My sister owns a 2008 QP and when she got into the back seat she whispered to my mom sitting next to her, "This is nicer than my Maserati.". She couldn't see the slight smile on my face.
My sister owns a 2008 QP and when she got into the back seat she whispered to my mom sitting next to her, "This is nicer than my Maserati.". She couldn't see the slight smile on my face.
I can only deduce your comparison is based on your 2006 and 2008 CLS..maybe you should compare to the 2008 XJ?? Now, I generally compare the latest model of each car...so, let's stick with 2011 XJ and 2012 CLS...and the 2012 CLS is completely new model.
The base CLS engine signficantly outperforms the base XJ engine. The AMG engine outperforms the supercharged engine. And the perf pack AMG signficanly outperformes the XJ supersport (590 torque blows XJ away). These are facts, just look at the specs and testing, and I have driven both cars as well. And these care are all priced relatively comparable. By the way, the gas mileage on the CLS is notably better while giving better peformance. The XJ engine is very nice (made by Ford I think), but the Benz engine outdoes it.
Now, of course the XJ is bigger, and the CLS is not marketed for those who want obese people or 6'4" adults in the back seat. But the back seat of the CLS is not small (the XK is!), it is just smaller than the XJ..so the XJ has more room, yes. Ironically, the CLS trunk space is noticeably larger than the XJ. Why is there all that wasted space between the rear XJ seats and when the trunk starts..what is in there!..maybe something that pops/ratttles.! ;-)....but seriously, and why is there that stupid ledge thing in the rear of the trunk?? what is that, and it prevents you from getting luggage in there. I'm not saying the XJ trunk is tiny, but it is SMALL for such a larger car, and it is smaller than the CLS trunk. The CLS has a snug feel in the interior but it is no cramped...it is desinged that way as it tries to look/feel more like a coupe...um, sort of like the XJ is trying to do also, which doesn't work as well on a long car (by the way, the XJL looks like boat from the side, or a hippo driving down the road. The base XJ is much better looking from the side than the XJL.). The 4 door coupe "look" starts to not visually work when the car gets stretched to long...um, black pillars anyone? Heck, look at the new Audi A7, another four door coupe that has a hatchback even!...btw, very nice looking car, though I don't car for audi grilles, but nice looking car (better than XJ in some respects, though this is cheaper price point car, seems like a very good buy).
The voice command on the 2012 CLS is far superior to the 2011 XJ. The XJ you sort of have to speak a bit like a robot...the CLS, you speak naturally and it understands you, pretty cool actually. I like the XJ voice controls (when it's working), but the CLS is easier to use.
BTW, the only color of an XJ that looks good is BLACK. Have we forgotten how controversial and silly looking the blacked out pillars are. Seems like you all have "accepted" them now, but they look silly...and we know of course they are used to visually hide ugly aspects of the car. The black XJ doesn't suffer from this problem.
Did you all see the royal wedding recently? See what the queen and other royals were pulled up in? Yeah, and XJ.....hence, antoher "X" against the XJ. I do not want to be seen driving a chauffer's car. One reason I did not consider the S class...didnt' think of the XJ like this until I saw that. BTW, the trays in the back of the XJL are very flimsy and cheap...anyone gonna disagree with me on that?
Now, the XJ is a very nice car when its operating properly, and actually it compares more to an S class. It's too bad it suffers from the same old electronic and computer issues that have plagued Jaguar throughout it's history. Like when I first took my XJ in for service and remarked about the poor electonics they said to me "this is your first XJ, isn't it". But the incessant roof popping was the nail in the coffiin. A $90,000+ luxury car should have a quit interior, period! Maybe I will come back in 2014/15 when they do a mid cycle refresh and work out all the kinks...and maybe then it will copy the new CLS again, and get a bit more angles with the curves, which is the new trend it seems.
Last edited by pwl; 07-09-2011 at 07:59 PM.
#36
07-10-2011, 06:35 AM
I'm not sure where PWL gets his information from, but I am seeing information contrary to his sweeping statements regarding the performance of the XJ351 and the MB CLS.
The base petrol and diesel engines produce more horsepower and torque - the Jag 3.0 Litre V6 Diesel AJ-V6D GEN III engine produces 271 bhp and 440 lb/ft of torque to the CLS' 224 bhp amd 380 lb/ft of torque. Acceleration from 0-60 mph is 0.6 of a second faster for the Jag (6.4 & 7 secs).
The Jaguar 5.0 Litre V8 Petrol Supercharged 510PS AJ-V8 GEN III engine produces 503 bhp and 461 lb/ft of torque against the CLS' 5.4 L AMG M113 V8 Supercharged 480 bhp and 516 lb/ft torque.
In short zuh Tommy hass again outdone zuh Jerry in making goot cars.
Iss time for Jerry to return to zuh drawing board...
The base petrol and diesel engines produce more horsepower and torque - the Jag 3.0 Litre V6 Diesel AJ-V6D GEN III engine produces 271 bhp and 440 lb/ft of torque to the CLS' 224 bhp amd 380 lb/ft of torque. Acceleration from 0-60 mph is 0.6 of a second faster for the Jag (6.4 & 7 secs).
The Jaguar 5.0 Litre V8 Petrol Supercharged 510PS AJ-V8 GEN III engine produces 503 bhp and 461 lb/ft of torque against the CLS' 5.4 L AMG M113 V8 Supercharged 480 bhp and 516 lb/ft torque.
In short zuh Tommy hass again outdone zuh Jerry in making goot cars.
Iss time for Jerry to return to zuh drawing board...
#37
07-10-2011, 08:49 AM
Senior Member
"Mister...you said in eariler posts you bought your XJ on April 1. I find it interesting that you not only sat in the new CLS, but drove it too...more than 2 months before dealers were permitted to show or allow test drives. I know this for a fact. Maybe you went to some auto show and saw one, but you definitely did NOT drive a 2012 CLS prior to April 1 unless you work at corporate for benz..or have a "buddy" who does (facetious)." pwl
Sorry pwl I should have clarified that I was in Germany in March visiting one of my sisters who lives in Stuttgart. That's where I experienced the 2012 CLS 63.
Sorry pwl I should have clarified that I was in Germany in March visiting one of my sisters who lives in Stuttgart. That's where I experienced the 2012 CLS 63.
#38
07-10-2011, 09:32 AM
Not interested in getting in the middle of this pissing match...
but to be fair to PWL, his Merc engine's info appears correct and some of the 2012 US Specs for the Merc CLS are better than our XJ's (on paper at least) and follows:
CLS550 (Base)
List: $71,300
Invoice: $66,309
The 4.6-liter V8 in the CLS550 is rated at 402 hp and 443 pound-feet of torque.
CLS63 AMG
$94,900
$88,257
The 2012 Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG is powered by its 518 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, twin-turbo 5.5-liter V8 (550 hp and 590 pound-feet of torque with the optional AMG Performance package.)
Regardless, I'm sticking with my XJL...
CLS550 (Base)
List: $71,300
Invoice: $66,309
The 4.6-liter V8 in the CLS550 is rated at 402 hp and 443 pound-feet of torque.
CLS63 AMG
$94,900
$88,257
The 2012 Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG is powered by its 518 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, twin-turbo 5.5-liter V8 (550 hp and 590 pound-feet of torque with the optional AMG Performance package.)
Regardless, I'm sticking with my XJL...
#39
07-10-2011, 09:27 PM
#40
07-10-2011, 11:11 PM
"Mister...you said in eariler posts you bought your XJ on April 1. I find it interesting that you not only sat in the new CLS, but drove it too...more than 2 months before dealers were permitted to show or allow test drives. I know this for a fact. Maybe you went to some auto show and saw one, but you definitely did NOT drive a 2012 CLS prior to April 1 unless you work at corporate for benz..or have a "buddy" who does (facetious)." pwl
Sorry pwl I should have clarified that I was in Germany in March visiting one of my sisters who lives in Stuttgart. That's where I experienced the 2012 CLS 63.
Sorry pwl I should have clarified that I was in Germany in March visiting one of my sisters who lives in Stuttgart. That's where I experienced the 2012 CLS 63.
