Hello everyone, I'm on the path of purchasing my dream car, a 2013 XJ 3.0SC AWD with only 55.000km / 34.000 miles, from one of the biggest dealers in my country ( Romania, Europe) but the whole process so far was a bit funny and frustrating at the same time so instead of making a 3 page essay post I will try to sum it up into 3 categories and with your help (because I'm so excited and irrational thanks to this black beast, I will attach pictures below) maybe I'll be able to answer to the question: Is this the best deal of my life or the biggest financial mistake:

The Good:
- Low mileage 55.000km / 34.000 miles
- Warranty 12 months/15.000km (gearbox and engine block)
- Exceptional price for Europe region- 22.800 Euros/ 24.000 USD
- Full Jaguar service history ( Please see the last picture attached)
- Only one previous user who bought it from Jag Dealership in my country ( under the same brand umbrella as the ones selling it now)

The Bad & The Ugly:

Now it comes the tricky part, the car is in their service, undrivable and unseeable, I discussed with 3 different (and incompetent) sales agents who initially said the vehicle is available to be seen and drive tested (went after it once in the showroom) only to find out in the end from the last one that the car is indeed in the service.

After I applied FBI level questioning tactics I managed to find out the reason for it (apparently it was top secret aka we are sales agents we know nothing about mechanics)- They are waiting for a piece (part of the Timing Components, I tried to identify which one but the same "we are sales agents not mechanics) a piece for which they have an unspecified delivery date due to its unavailability, they are official Jag dealership in my country, 'it should be on its way sir since the car is in service for 3 weeks now.

The cherry on top was when I asked what I'm supposed to do in this case- he proposed to pay 10% of its value ~3k EUR and once they fix it, I can see the car and pay the rest, otherwise another customer can come and pay its full amount ( which man right in his head can pay a car that cannot be seen?). Also said I should not be worried since I have 1 year/15k km warranty.

In the meantime, discovering the forum, and reading every flaw that this engine has, I don't know what to do in this case, if I should go for it or not. I was planning to change anyways all the pipes with the ALU kit, together with the water pump, etc.

My only fear is the manufacturing year- 2013 which many here said was the most problematic one regarding timing chain issues (the reason for the car being in service with such low mileage) and things like damaged/bent pistons doesn't; sound too appealing to me. An issue that I can not test without a full engine rebuild that honestly I don't plan to do. Changing a water pump and some pipes is one but tearing apart the whole engine is a different kind of animal. It might be a minor thing and I'm paranoid or a totaled engine in a few months or after a year and +20k burned.

Any advice is appreciated, thank you in advance for your time reading the post, I'm attaching some pictures below:

 

I would say that don´t pay anything until you have been seen, hear and driven it. There arent many purchasers for these vehicles, so keep you head down and turn the situtation upside down by telling that you have now other vehicle on sight and if they cant say when it would be possible to see it you go for other. Leave you phone nr and ask them to call to check if you are still interested the one they have once its fixed.
Cars comes and goes and for the sales fellows secrety its worth to say him: "Listen, i play open cards and understand that vehicles are complicated machines, what can and will have defects and need of service. Since you seen not playing open cards, can i speak some other sales person who i can trust?"

Otherwise car looks Ok by pictures. Its Portfolio speck?

 

2013 was not a bad year? The first years (2009-2010 for the XJ) of any car are the worst as problems show up that did not during the factory testing. The 2013 model has some real improvements with the 8 speed ZF being one of them. Nothing wrong with the 6 speed but I have had both transmissions and the 8 speed is better all the way around. Performance and gas mileage. It was a good upgrade.

Without more details on exactly what they are doing we don't really know. It sounds like a timing gear problem but that is low mileage so kind of surprised at that but possible. Can you get any more details and maybe a parts list of what was or is going to be replaced?
With you being in such a different market compared to the US I can't comment on if that's a good price or not? In the US there is no demand for XJ's and they go for cheap prices.

One thing that stands out is the lack of information about the car. Can you get a private inspection done? It would be money well spent.

Any kind of service records? The ones posted only show fluid changes and some of the mileage intervals are VERY long? Maybe an oil change was done some where other than the dealer? As you have read many on the forum feel as I do that the long oil change intervals of 15-16K miles are FAR to long and I change mine at 6K-8K intervals.

Note the console that has the purple color? That is sun damage as those parts should be gloss black. That's an indication that the car sat in the weather and may not have been garaged. Just cosmetic and up to you if you want to fix it but might be worth a mention when your negotiating price? This would lead me to look for other cosmetic issues.

I think with the age of the car you will be better off doing the repair work yourself. You have already looked at the improved cooling parts and I think that is smart. You have educated yourself BEFORE purchasing so you "hopefully" won't run into anything too bad.

We love pictures so post away and some from under the hood would be useful.
.
.
.

 

Without getting too far into the weeds of finances and your situation…

You MUST put emotion aside as this is a business transaction. Do not under any circumstances give them money. You’ll likely end up fighting to get your money back if you decide you don’t want the car, they can’t fix it or you find another. Because it’s your dream car you don’t want to end up making a different bad decision and taking a problem because you love the car.

I would say….

Keep searching! The right one will come along.

Or cut a killer deal, fix it yourself. It’s not THAT hard as there is loads of resources.

 

The 2013 model year was the first year of the AJ126 and yes it did have some timing chain problems reported for that first year and the next couple of years (so 2013 through to around 2015). Not as bad as the early V8 (AJ133) though - 2009 through to 2013 - as they largely fixed the tensioner/chain guide wear problem by the time the AJ126 came out.

 

I would honestly be looking for another car atleast at this moment. This will do 2 things for you: 1) puts some urgency to the dealership that they may lose you as a potential customer (granted, parts can only get there but so fast), and 2) lets you see what the market in your area is like for that car. Like ClubAirth said, here in the US, $24K for that car is really high. I bought a 2016 XJL that is almost identical for $28 a year ago. So, I would definitely try to talk them down if you are going to go with this car. Granted, that may be a hard sell as the dealership is eating up a lot of profit right now doing all the work on the car. The only way that I would leave any money with the dealership is to get a signed piece of paper out of them saying that you will get a fully functional car for $XXK (whatever value you can get them to agree to) and then also have in writing that if the car cannot be made road worthy, that you get 100% of your money back at the time of being informed the car is not repairable or a set date is reached. The dealership may not be willing to do that. This is where you have to use your most effective tool you have and simply say "Thanks, but I am going somewhere else to buy a vehicle". You then have to walk out of the dealership, maybe even ignore their calls for a few days or simply be a real @$$$%^& to them and push them into meeting your needs. I had to do that with a dealership when I was buying my car recently. The dealership was trying to play games, I was an informed buyer, told them to pack sand for what they wanted for their car and that I had already looked at the history of the car and knew the car had a blown engine (which they were trying to sell it that way). Needless to say, they were happy to get me out of their showroom as others were looking at the car but were leaving when they heard me mention "blown engine" and how I could prove it did.

 

Hi there. Romanian fellow here too. I got my XJ 3.0SC AWD one year ago. Mine it's a per first registration 2018 but built in 2017 though. 80.000Km when I got it. It was 38.000Euro the official price but I got it for 33.000 because I accepted/proposed to keep it as a private sale so no warranty either. It was a multi-brand dealership in Germany. The car was run by 2 guys from Moldova and the supposed owner a Lithuanian-German guy. It was supposed to be the boss car in fact. I have actually found a parking ticket from Lithuania in the car's glove box. So at least part of the story is true.
They let me see the car. I have asked to keep the car untouched overnight so it will be completely cold (it was November and I got it with snow on it). I wanted to be sure there is no bad noise that can be heard only few minutes on a cold start only like the supercharger coupler or tensioner.
Car required a oil service. In my craziness I drove it with "serivce require" in the dash until Romania, about 2000Km. It was on the 2 years and 28.000Km per German service I guess. Now I do oil service every year or about 7-8000Km (this is how much I drive the car yearly).
Car also had a driver seat climate module permanent fault. I've gone one from eBay with 30$, funny, with a label about "Made in Romania". I did the repair on my own. I have discovered this with the Autel AP200 dongle. You can get one for 50Euro from Aliexpress and you can scan all modules of the car, see live data, reset oil service. I totally recommend you this little tool to have it in the glove box all the time.
Now about the car, the water piping was upgraded as I can read about 2016 so yours for sure hadn't. Maybe this is the reason the car is in service, it failed and maybe the engine was damaged.
I don't like the Jaguar dealerships in Bucharest. I had an XF before, for 9 years. Their service war always really bad. I'm not the gangsta guy style so maybe they felt to talk to me like a little boy. Considering that sales people will talk to me differently based on my young appearance, makes me understand their lack of respect.
I had also got into few stories about such bad salaries for tech guys. Same in fact like for Porsche Bucuresti Nord which supposed to be one of the biggest VAG and Porsche dealership in the area. So imagine good mechanics will just leave to do their own businesses.
You might have a chance to talk to people from Brasov dealership. They seems nicer at least on emails and lot more cooperative. Maybe you can ask them if they have any XJ and eventually try to ask if they know anything about the one from Tiriac dealership. Probably even if they can get any information, will not disclose, but who knows?!

Happy searching, I believe to not stop on this one. Eventually get a diesel same year, it should run nicer in Euro5 but still not likes the short journeys. You'll be fine with RWD on the diesel. Plenty quick, plenty safe, plenty fun. Better than any Merc or BMW in the drivability.
On the petrol expect not get below 10-12L/100Km unless you drive steadily on country road. Then you can get 8 it will eat petrol a lot. Add 80L in the tank and see 600Km range Also prepare for the 8 speed automatic and petrol to need to get 3-4 gears down for an overtake. Even if it is a fast gearbox, you'll wait until it decides to go past 1200RPM and change 2-3-4 gears down one by one (this is why DSG is cool on petrol powerful cars and have nothing to do with 2.0TDI cars). It will need to be past 3000RPM and then you'll feel the urge in your back continuously until you realize you're 180Kmh.
Expect not to have a foldable backseat. It is not an optional. It really doesn't exists at all!
It is also a 10 years old car. For my experience with XF and XJ, they age well but not the engine plastics and rubbers. Cheap to solve, easy to fix for untrained mechanics, you get second hand parts from EU (not romanian scrap yard *******s) but still you'll find from time to time a small niggle with that age.

 

Yes, 2013 was a crossover year, difficult to know exactly how the car was built (my 2013 Vin shows as "supercharged", although it is not)
Also, beware that a normal owner will never have checked the engine oil level (dash instructions, even if you know where to look, are decidedly unhelpful)
These cars do not like running oil of oil, and several do use oil at a surprising rate ( my 2013 consumes a liter per 750km) so best to learn as much about the history as possible
I inspected six private-party cars for sale, *none* of the owners knew how to check oil level.....

 

Thanks for your reply Vasara, unfortunately I can't figure out if it's the Portfolio package since is not mentioned in the advertisement and my untrained eye can't tell the differences based on the pictures alone.

 

Thanks for your detailed response, unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the engine since they did not allow me to see the car, only posted the pictures from the advertisement itself.

I tried to see exactly what specific piece they can't source in case I might have a chance in doing so, but the sales agent told me he is not a mechanic and changed the subject. I'm considering bypassing them and going straight to the repair shop, maybe I get lucky and run into a staff member from there or even a mechanic who knows more details about the problem.

Regarding the service records, the image already posted are the only one, and yes you are correct, the intervals there are HUGE and says a lot about how the owner treated the car, basically he followed the massive service intervals of Jag standard which might be the cause of why a such low mileage car ended up in this situation.

Speaking of the purple color, I checked other pictures and it seems like the interior trim color if this car is not the classic Black but a Blue Navy which was a bit rare but available at that time, so both dash leather and the console have this color, maybe it was only available for European market, who knows, so the purple hue of the plastic console is light related, the original color is that blue navy.

 

Yes you are right, since a few days have passed my emotions diminished a bit so I can think rationally again. On paper from their side things look good: 12 months warranty for engine and transmission, 7 days money back guarantee if you don't like the car, but as the situation looks like, it's a long way until then. I'll probably give them a call back in a few days or I'm thinking of bypassing them directly like I already said to another forum colleague and try my luck straight and the garage where the car is kept.

 

You have a very interesting perspective Thermo, thanks for that.

Unfortunately for me, the Jag market in my country looks very bad, here people go for BMW's, MB, Audi's so Jag is like really really exclusive, I live in the capital ( 2 mil people city ) drive every day and I see a Jag one the streets once 1-2 months maybe.

At this moment there are only 6 XJ's available for sale in the whole country, the one posted already, and only 1 other alternative a 3.0 Diesel 300hp from 2017 with 79.000km/ 49.000 miles listed at 29.600 USD so 18k miles higher and 5.600 USD higher at the price. The other 4 XJ's are over 200k miles so I am excluding them from the start.

Speaking about your experience with that dealership, how did you manage to find out that the car had a blown engine? This is the thing I fear the most regarding the car, it might have been a blown engine as well because of the chain, the client gave it back to them as a buy-back for a very very low price, and they will sell it for this price, hence their profit even in the context of them repairing it. But this is just an assumption from my side, how can I check if the engine was blown, what was your method of finding that?

 

Hi there my Romanian fellow, this forum was the last part of the world where I would think I'll run into a Romanian but here we are. (still surprised)
Your story was really really funny, I can't imagine driving this type of engine with a Service Check engine light on all the way from Germany till home 2000 km, if I was you I'd push it all the way by hand or ask a truck driver to tow it just to avoid an engine blow up.

I totally understand you speaking of your young appearance, I'm 32 and look at least 6-8 years younger so people think I'm in my early or mid 20's, I need to pull out my ID so anyone can believe I'm over 30. Usually, a nice suit or a leather jacket does the trick for me.

Yes the car is from Tiriac and 3 different sales agents could not help me at all, I even drove 1h till the showroom to view the car after their confirm its availability, only to find out the car is in the Jag Service from Pipera. I'm thinking of bypassing the 'Tiriac Auto Rulate' and go straight to the service maybe I can find a mechanic or something to find out more about the car.

My biggest fear, like you said, is for it to have a blown up engine either from a coolant system failure or from the timing chain they are trying to repair right now.

I did managed to find the only XJ alternative to this in our whole country, a diesel like you said, much newer from 2017 at a price of 29k euros with 79k km on board.

The problem here is the diesel engine for me, I read a lot on this forum here and many members said the V6 Diesel engine from Jag ( Ford "Lion" at the origin) had some massive design and manufacturing problems regarding the oil dilution and a massive engine failure caused by or at the crankshaft.

Apparently, some suffer from what is called an 'infant death' at a very low mileage because of some weak material composition and if the engine passed a certain number of km/miles you can consider yourself lucky by having a strong engine from a good batch. I would not take this Russian roulette bet for 30k euros. The problem here is that for this diesel engine, there are no preventive measures like metal pipes for the petrol engine, only a constant change of oil at around 5-6k and not flooring the engine from a low rpm ( it is considered a factor which puts the biggest stress on the crankshaft, hence the failure).

It would be really nice if I could chat with you in private somehow, I just created the account I don't think I can send a DM.

 

Andrew, here in the US, there is a few services that track what maintenance that has been reportedly done to a car and with the VIN number, you can pay a certain price and get that list of maintenance. Normally the dealerships and auto body shops make reports on the cars. The car in question had been to the same dealership at about 2K miles (3,000 KM) intervals for various cooling system failures like 6 or 7 times (over like a 12K mile timeframe). The dealership was replacing all sorts of parts other than pulling the heads and fixing the obvious problem. This is where I would be seeing if your area has something similar. A lot of the bigger dealerships that sell used cars will include this as part of the "guarantee" for a car (to show that the car is not a sufferer of many problems). In my case, my bank gave me a few free lookups since I got a pre-approved loan through them. That may be another way to see what your options may be. Would not hurt to get the pre-approved loan even if you buy the car and then pay off the loan a month or two after getting the car. Sure the banks do not necessarily like that, but they would prefer that then the other people that do not pay back anything.

The other thing that I would ponder is taking a trip to a nearby country and make a "long weekend" of the car purchase. Fly say 1,000KM from where you live to look/buy a car. This should give you a larger selection of vehicles to choose from and worst case, if you don't buy the car for whatever reason, you had a nice weekend and you need to either get a rental car back home or buy a round trip ticket and use that (or not use it if you buy the car). The extra cost of that flight is going to be minimal when you get the car that you really want. I had to drive about 100 miles from where I live to get my car and I was looking 300 miles out for my options. Granted, living in the land of "look at what I drive" (aka, Washington DC), nicer cars like a Jaguar are somewhat plentiful.

Not to talk you out of an XJ, but you can also look at the XF. Yes, the interior is not going to be quite as plush/nice, but the car is still going to get looks. You can even step as far down as the XE if you do not mind the mid-size sedan. With that being said, the XE was a consideration for me, but I was looking at the 3.0L XES. Same motor as that in the XJ, but a much lighter car and is a blast to toss in the corners and drive to the edge of what the car can handle. I got to test drive the XES on a closed course. I made the car scream with power. Nothing like doing a 4 wheel drift as you power out of a corner. But, as life has been, the XJ was what I was really after as I am reaching that point where the ride of the XJ is just hard to beat.

 

Some info of AJD-V6 "Lion":
Yes, the AJD-V6 diesel engine can suffer an oil dillution, what is caused by the position of DPF filter on exhaust. Its bit too far away from engine so DPF burning process are long and easily distracted. Same engine is used on PSA vehicles (Peugeot/Citroen) in much, much bigger volumes than JLR without this issue, because PSA have front wheel drive platform and DPF is located near of the engine.
To avoid issue of oil dillution, change oils in 10k km and use only C1 low ash oil. Keep your injectors clean and don´t keep driving if MIL is lit. If there is an problem: Fix it or get it fixed. Btw: there are an trick to improve DPF burning a lot. On some models, mostly Land-/Range Rover or F-Pace, this is a must.

The crankshaft issue you wrote: Yes and No. Earlier 2.7l version suffer inproper bearing tolerances from factory, what is claimed corrected on 3.0 litre production. (yes, in the end Ford did agree that 2.7l had "some" issues in production methods and tolerances) This was propably most reasons for low mileage crankshaft failures. (some say that if AJD-V6 crankshaft past 100k km, you are good) As far i understand on 2.7l cranshaft was outsourced, when 3.0l is made inhouse (by Ford Dagenham plant). Reported crankshaft issues dropped well down on 2.7l to 3.0l move, even much more stress was added to the same desing. (from 190hp to 300hp)
For sure on AJD-V6 the crankshaft desing is not great. All modern engines suffer the same curse: Demand of low emissions force for low internal friction desings where issues start. Thin timing chains or pistong rings, wet timing or oil pump belts, narrow bearings... Huh..
Note: On AJD-V6 the oilfilter housing draining valve have to be checked everytime filter is changed. Valve can slip off from its holder, causing lose 1/3 of oil pressure - Check "Diesel variants" section of this Forum for my post of oilfilter drain valve. This might be other reason for crankshaft or bearing failures? (valve slipped off from its holder on mine once during oilfilter change, but i notised it by increased valvetrain noise right after i started it. First suspect the oil, but then peeked inside of housing )

My 2010 XJ (x351) 3.0 diesel have now >324 000km on clock. No issues. I have been changed engine oil and filter every 10k km and used only recommend Castrol C1 oil. Everything in my enginebay is original exept serviced filters, belts, rollers and one solenoid actuator.
I do trackdays time to time and push XJ hard on track. (been twice got my rims repainted because hot brakes cooked the paint) I also live in north climate, where 4-5 months are cold, what adds even more difficulties for DPF burning.
Never hear or ever avoided full throtle on low rpm -> Thats the party piece of AJD-V6 offering plenty of torgue already 1500-2000rpm. I avoid more top end rpm, since the power output go thinn after 4000rpm.

Anyhow: What ever engine you purchase, service it about half of the interval manufacturer notes. This is not only JLR, its any vehicle/brand. Long service intervals are wish from leasing fleet companys. (they are biggest customers for car manufacturers)

 

I confirm Vasara post. I had an XF diesel 3.0 and I sold it about 350.000Km with no issues. Previews owner told me he had issues with DPF but it regenerated alone on a longer drive. Yes, you can, get into troubles, it does mater if you want to learn things that will apply to many other cars. Most of times is not car's fault but usage fault.
I never used my XF running in cold morning still for more than 30 sec and drove it slowly until it started to blow some air in the cabin. That was the moment I was thinking yeah, the water temperature is at least 30C. I can go to 2500RPM, until then, 1500RPM only. Like a grandma.
I prefer not to go to groceries for 700-1000m one way to any small shop. I took my backpack and did the small shopping like this than in the Jag. Stupid would tell me I am a scrooge but no, I was just loving my Jag and my health. And I avoid any short trip less than few km. Anyhow, Romania is the land where you can easily walk everywhere in a city. Not like let's say US where you need a car to cross the street.
The XF was a great car. The XJ is greater. I would not return to XF now spoiled by XJ and would not get an XE.
Regarding the 2017 diesel one. I think it is already one year old on the market, if it is the white one. Pay attention to that, I remember, it states some options that are not existing as you can see checking the pictures of the car.

 

OP, to me, that seems like a LOT of money for an 11, soon to be 12 year old car, especially one that appears to be tied up while repairs are being made to it. Strictly as a reference point, several months ago, we sold our '16 XJ-L Portfolio, with only 16,000 miles on it, to the local CarMax, a used car emporium. They gave us $24,000 USD for it, which while not exactly "top buck" for a car in it's condition, it was a rather reasonable offer, compared to a couple of other offers that we got. CarMax turned around and put a $32,000 asking price on it, but I have no idea if they got anywhere near that figure for it.

 

The center console only came in gloss black. That blue/purple color is well known and it's due to sun damage. Posted several times on this forum.
.
.
.