I would like to add a comment to all the readers to keep the following in mind:
There are some people who seem to have legitimate "lemon cars" just like they exist from any brand.
There seem to be some people they won't be happy with the car, no matter what. Whatever the source, unrealistic expectations or buyer's remorse.
Jaguar now must have built I guess around 30,000 of those cars. Now if you check the people posting the major problems (I am not talking about the ones with small legitimate problems or questions) you will find how many? A handful may be?

You see where I am going with this. Out of 30,000 plus cars it is quiet normal that you have a share of a) unhappy customers for whatever resons and b) cars with the one or other glitch and c)the occassional car which turns out to be a complete lemon.

But again, see the numbers. Now go to any BMW or Mercedes or whatever board and check there. What you will find is.....also problems and complaints.
In other words, Jaguar is just as good or as bad as the other brands. But, in my view, the car is a lot more exciting in many aspects than the cars of those other brands. Despite my engineering back ground at this point I can not see any major detrimental design flaw with the car whatsoever. Just the usual occassional OEM supplier quality control issues and the production process learning curve inherent with any new model.

I am greatful for and appreciate that people post their problems and questions. It is of great help, especially for those dealing with "not so good" service departments and techicians. It prevents those less then top dealers to "put one over you".

I even enjoy more reading when somebody simply loves their car or hearing about a car with some problems and a delaer taking care of it the correct way. Problems are an unavoidable issue for all car brands. The way they deal with them is most important. Reading about dealers (like mine) who simply took in the car, gave me a free XJ loaner, and fix the problems without drame in 1 or 2 days. (Yes that was all it took in my case). Not unreasonable for a low VIN and a very complex new model in my opinion. I knew being an early adopter could mean a hiccup here or there.

So, thanks for posting the information. But for the ones ranting and raving to a point where it becomes unbelievable I have one message and one questions: a) what is your point and what do you hope to accomplish on this board? We already got your message. b) why don't you just move on? Meaning, invoke lemon law, get an attorney involved, get rid of the car, whatever it takes. Even write off a loss at some point if you really have to. Even being enthusiast myself I need to keep in mind: its just a car. Not a life altering event. None of the buyers can tell me they are so poor that they can't afford to put up a fight or are too uneducated to do so. We are not talking about some low priced compact or mid size car. We are talking about $ 80k to $ 100k luxury car. I am sure if you had the means to purchase or lease that kind of car you have the means and smarts to know how to fight as a consumer. So, may be Jaguar was wrong and you where right. Whats the point. When it becomes a never ending repetitive story of your life its time to move on. Just like in a bad marriage. It may cost you but you'll be much happier. (I don't know for sure but that is what I hear from people who should know ).

For the ones who experience legitimate problems with dealers, new flaws and so on: Please keep sharing your experiences. For the ones who love the car and have comparisons like the many CLS500, 550 and CLS63 comparisons written, please keep writing. (Having my own CLS63 also I know the fun comparing). And no there is no "winner" per se as they are not really comparible. Just a personal favorite may be. (And I wasn't able to certainly identify that one but I am leaning to the XJ, simply for comfort. Sportiness..it would be the CLS63 no doubt).

I respect all the posters and their opinions. I know ranting and sharing helps to make one feel better at times. I just wanted to add my view for consideration. I know its not black and white but just like I said; my very own personal opinion.

 

Well said.

 

^^^ what he said.

moaning, groaning, ranting and raving are much better directed at the parties who can actually address a *legitimate* beef in a meaningful manner.

No one on the board is going to actually fix a problem, and the hope that it will somehow cut the manufacturer's sales implies a belief that more than a handful of potential purchasers even know that the forum exists.

 

I agree with your post. My situation is of someone that wants to give Jaguar a shot but I have this thing about doing a lot of research before committing this kind of money on a vehicle.

NO CAR - including Lexus - is free of problems. My issue is what kind of problems those are, and how quickly or not they are solved. We're talking cars here that most people can't buy - the ones that can demand quality, reliability and service.

For example, I had two recalls on my LS-460 that were important - valve springs replacement and fuel rails replacements. I drop the car in the morning, get a GS as a loaner, pick up the car around 4pm with all paper work and extended warranty on engine and drive train for another 6 years, plus a $50 gift card to be used anywhere I want, for the 'inconvenience'. The car drives the same, is cleaned up and washed, no issues, great customer service.

So what's the difference? For me, it is that Lexus was proactive on resolving issues and the dealer was top-notch. Do I want to switch to Jaguar after reading about so many problems, some big, some small, and knowing that seems all Jag dealers are less than trained? No. At least not in this price range. If I wanted issues and/or dealer services of that level I would buy some $25k domestic car.

See Jaguar of England? This is what I am talking about. Your cars are beautiful, if only they would adjust to today's standards of quality and/or service (dealers need LOTS of training) I wouldn't have been lurking here for a year now. I'd have bought the car already. In fact, I am reading about the XKR now - which is a car I also like and can buy cash, but I am really almost never in the mood to have to deal with car issues, so we'll see.

These forums are great, I read all of them on the cars I eventually get interested on. But I work very very hard for my cash so.... let the best combo of looks/reliability/service win. Healthy competition is good.

 

There are bad Lexus dealers too. As well as problems that they have never acknowledged as having existed even though it has cost owners complete engines.

As well, there are excellent Jaguar dealers. There are even some where you never see the service department. You phone a service "consultant", or they phone you when it is time for scheduled maintenance. They drop off a loaner Jaguar of the same model and take yours in. The reverse happens when they are done. Visiting one of those dealerships is like visiting Tiffany's.

Most of the owners here will never have that experience because they are buying used cars. They don't care, because they own a Jaguar.

So, if you want to sit on the rail forever, you may never own a Jaguar. New or used. Cash or otherwise.

Come to think of it, Jaguar is for those who love *everything* about cars, not just its value as a status symbol.

 

I love my Jaguar and I agree there comes a point when you need to move on. I came to this board not as a problem child because I have not had a serious issue with my car since I got it in December. I guess my difference is that I am in Germany and every job here even at job a McDonalds is considered a serious job so people are highly trained. So whatever problems existed was fixed before I got my car.(I am having a problem with one of my front bumper sensors but that may be my fault due to a high pressure car wash wand.)

With that said I love excellence and I know what this car could be with the information in the right hands so instead of coming on this board to bitch about everything I take my suggestions straight to Jaguar UK, DE, and NA. For example, for some silly reason they made two types of Nav systems(according to them) and because I have a US spec car they are saying I can't get European maps. Or even better if I want my daytime running lights on I have to go to the dealer to get that done when someone with a 25 thousand dollar Mini can do it in the car. To me that unacceptable but again I don't come on here to complain about it because I doubt anybody on this board can fix it so I go straight to the top.

What I expect from this board is to find Jaguar lovers who share their experiences both good and bad because believe it or not Word of Mouth is more powerful than any commercial Jaguar can make and if I know you own a Jaguar and I ask you about it and you are unhappy I will think twice before I buy one. Also, without people expressing their issues we would all be on an island dealing with issues by ourselves. I know the popping roof thing has been solved for a lot of people on this board because someone posted the TSB's that they then gave to their dealer to help resolve the problem because they didn't know it existed.

The biggest issue Jaguar has is a history of unreliability and inconsistency and with a car of this caliber you need your dealer network to be informed, proactive, and trustworthy. When you are trying to compete with the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and Audi you have to come out the gate like Lexus and put out a near perfect car because they are already starting in the a hole. Consumers are more forgiving of the others I mentioned because they have a history of excellence.

I love my Jaguar and have wanted one for a long time and if I had to do it over again I would still buy it over an S Class, 7 series, A8, or Panamera because it embodies everything I wanted in a car of that class but it could be better. And lucky for us a lot of what can make it better can be done in software updates because as far as the body and interior goes for me its is damn near perfection.

As far as the people that are bitching to bitch like the person who feels its unacceptable for the car not to perform well in the snow with summer tires. Let them bitch. They just wanna be heard and really just need a hug. I read it, laugh and either move on or respond. But for the people that are having real issues whether they are being handled properly by the dealerships or not we need to listen to them and support them because WE are the one that will decide the fate of Jaguar. My friends will either buy one or not based on my experiences. And they will tell their friends and so on. And any car company worth its salt checks these boards because we are their customers and this is the best way to get feedback both positive and negative. They are smart enough to discard the silly issues. But should definitely pay attention to the serious ones like the roof popping issues and they have. Now if they can get their dealerships all on the same sheet of music it would be in their best interest.

I am proud to be a Jag U ar owner(as the british pronounce it) and consider each of you brothers and I am sure there are some sisters-in-arms. We have the hottest vehicle in its class and while it may not be the most highly technical it is the pound for pound champ.

 

I must say that I read this thread (and the others in this sub-forum) with a half-smile on my face: welcome to the Wonderful World of Jaguars! We bought our first Jaguar in 1971, right after I survived my two-year sentence as an Army draftee. Since then, we have continuously had at least one, and sometimes two, Jaguars in the household. The others - Ferrari, Lotus, BMW, Holden, Honda (S800), Dodge (GLH), Chevrolet (turbo Corvair, Nova Twin Cam, et al), Ford (Fiesta), Morris (Mk 1 Cooper S), etc. etc. - all came and went. But always, always a Jaguar remained. If that has to be explained, it is hopeless - either one gets it, or one does not.

I found the "roof popping" complaints amusing - that's the Jaguar DNA. Our 2008 S-Type 4.2 has had a creaking headliner since new, in spite of repeated dealer fix attempts. We have just learned to put up with it - it is part of the "character", sort of like the creaking of a fine wooden yacht as you turn it into the wind. The other positive aspects of Jaguar ownership so much overwhelm the creaking that we no longer even hear it. It is the Zen of Jaguar Ownership.

 

Sir, I respect your history with Jaguar but I am going to have to respectfully disagree. If you got a car and the window didn't roll all the way up you would not call it DNA you would call it a design flaw unless Jaguar meant it to do that. Jaguar did not mean the roof to pop which is why they issued a Technical Service Bulletin to fix it. Nobody at any price level should accept a product that doesn't work as intended or shoddy craftsmanship.

 

I can live with some occasional minor squeaks and rattles--cars just do not stay as "tight" as they are when you first buy them, but the roof popping issue was quite annoying and had to go. Thank goodness my dealer was able to correct this--it appears that some dealers are really struggling with it and I sympathize with these owners.

 

Very well said. I hope Jaguar is monitoring this board on occassion and is taking note of the feedback. It can only help them to make the car better. And that is one of the great features of a board like this. I can find out if I am the only one who is disliking something (like a very heavy key and other quirky things) or if others feel the same.
The car is great and has even greater potential. But only if Jaguar is sticking with the direction they are going. Their quality issues from the 80's are long gone history but still lingers in the minds of people.

I also onw a LExus product. Yes, if you want to get as close as perfect as possible, Lexus is a good choice. But they have (and i am speaking generally for Toyota) gotten very arrogant about their quality and if one has a legitimate problem their initial response is "impossible" because it is a Toyota product. So, as you can see great quality history has a draw back when you really have a problem. They simply won't believe you at first. (I have experienced that with my local Lexus dealers).
And, yes if you like less then exciting design but good performance in many regards, Audi A8 is a great contender. But having a screen popping out of the dash and a still very boring styling? Not for me. But may be for some who are worried about the comments on this board. That is one of the reasons I pointed out the amount of cars sold versus the amount of complaints. And, that as it was pointed out here correctly; many people won't even know the existence of this and other boards.

 

Correct, the roof popping noise had to go. I would be extremely upset if that would be here to stay. I would have left Jaguar for good. But.....fortunately it has been fixed and I have a great car now.

 

Well, I resp[ectfully disagree, too. Being a "vintage Jaguar" fan is a great thing. A thing like Jaguar DNA? Mmmhhhh. I hope evolution took care of the things they made it unsurvivable. If the dealer wouldn't have been able to correct the roof pop and some other (in my case minor) items, I would be upset and regret to have bought the car. If I would have to deal with the more serious issues and failure to be corrected as some described I would be very upset.
But a touch screen system which is a bit behind the times or similar things, well I can accept that in exchange for the advantages like great handling and engine (probably best Jaguar ever did to this time) or exciting styling, well, I can say then the "Jaguar DNA is a good thing.

 

ExpatJag, remember I am born and raised in Germany in the City where BMW's are built. The exact, correct and perfect is in my blood and I expect it. In other words, if I can find my XJ to be up to my (high) expectations it can't be too bad. I do love my XJ still BUT if the dealer wouldn't have been able to correct the roof noise ect., it would have driven me crazy given my need for technical excellence the German standard. There is a reason why I don't drive American. And that is the one. If I would tell you my impression and experience with a brand new 1996 Cadillac STS you would know why I only tried ONCE with the American cars and never again. In all fairness that STS was about $20k lower priced then any comparible 5 series BMW or E class Mercedes. Yet at the time the most you could spent on an US luxury car.

 

Gears, of course I remember you are from Germany and there was not much I disagree with what you said. The roof thing would have been unacceptable to me if they couldnt fix and the 2012 Jaguar will come with smaller keys so it looks as if they are paying attention to their customers. I have a friend that is an American automobile fanatic and he believes American quality has risen and will I won't disagree with him I still believe they are nowhere close to German vehicles. But probably good enough for Americans. I won't buy another American vehicle either.

 

American cars remarkably have risen their qualities , you can see what I mean if you get in an older CTS and present gen , so is Grand Cherokee .

I love Mercedes Benz a lot and they were pouring their quality down as well , thankfully nowadays they're making good quality cars as they did in the past

 

I agree, just like 1980's jaguar bad quality reputation has nothing to do with the cars being built today the same is true for American cars their quality is getting very good. Cadillac has really gotten better with the materials used in their current cars and so has Lincoln. I like a lot of the new cadillacs especially the cts-v it's a bargain for the performance. I like the technology in the Lincoln's and their interiors but don't like the styling or the insistence on front wheel drive. Some of the new chrysler products look promising as well.

 

Just for the record: I completely AGREE that US cars have come a long way. My reference was made to a 1996 Cadillac. That was 15 years ago and at that time the US car industry was a completley different animal that it is today.
You see, I love my Chevy Express Conversion. I take that over any European brand Van. I think the same about some other truck products.
In addition one must consider the affordability, especially when it comes to parts. I think EXACTLY the same about the Lincoln. I like the European style interiour and technology but not their exteriour styling. I very much like new Cadillac;s exteriour styling, but do not like the interior (feels a bit cheap to me) and the handling isn't up to the promisse made with the aggressive (well done) styling.
And the quality has come a LONG way now. It just wiill take about 10 years to get that into consumer's minds. As a matter of fact quality has beaten some established German car makers.
In the end, a lot comes down to personal taste. I used to really like US cars (when I lived in Germany). The European compacts you see everywhere over there are sure not my cup of tea and when it comes to comfort, well, they just invented cup holders very recently. (among other amenitys you find in US cars standard).