would they be satisfied with that I dont know im so over these people but then again apparently, they had this reputation before I've since found out. They are even difficult to get responses back from at this point. I realize he thought he was trying to help but you gotta think with all the stuff I have posted and repaired on here and I've seen him interact before the fact he thought or anyone for that matter that I wouldn't know overheating an engine regardless of whether I put in 1000mm bolts or 10mm bolts would make a difference if you are more or less getting it to hot and on a regular basis like he suggested was not even offensive but dumb and comical at best. I know that we all know that which is why we are on this forum here asking questions about advanced car repair topics. Now if I was asking which can of fragranced air I should use to freshen up the air in the tires, or which way the seat belt buckled then his comments may of been justified but just because you offer up common sense advice to a person talking about head gasket replacement and bolt stretch doesn't mean I don't get to laugh and poke fun.

ill look into the large bolt recommendation I saw that after talking to the guys at VAP but like I said before even they said its not necessary.

 

What is your native language?

 

Well, clearly don't listen to anything Jaaag_drivah says. He just lost all credibility talking like a big cooling system expert on something he knows zero about, and embarrassed himself by not knowing waterless coolant was designed 20 years ago specifically for high-horsepower and racing applications! And here he is telling you that it can't handle high-horsepower! LOLOLOL! It's even popular with motorcycle race engines that are far higher horsepower per liter than any daily-driven, luxury Jaguar.

I realize a lot of people on Jaguar forums have a very low automotive IQ, but they are good at other things I am sure. You're always going to run into Luddites when introducing something new that fight anything they don't understand with a passion. But for the few on here that are truly knowledgeable with cars, and more openminded and not afraid of new things, they will benefit greatly from what I have learned through extensive real-world experience with waterless coolant. It's finally a root-cause solution for water pump and coolant system failures in Jaguar and Land Rovers because they run at extremely high coolant pressures and their all-aluminum engines can't tolerate being overheated. Anyone with automotive knowledge would know the pressure is a problem when they see a 29 PSI printed on the reservoir cap because that is an incredible amount of pressure and it will cause seals, pipes and hoses to fail. Think about it, that's close to the rated pressure of tires that support 2 tons of car.

And to dismiss waterless coolant because paying more for coolant is worse than spending $20K on a rebuilt engine that was destroyed by a coolant system failure is the coup de gras of low automotive IQ! Congrats!!

 

It's typical behavior from you to resort to insults and personal attacks to distract from the point of the discussion. But by all means, don't let critical thinking stop you from wasting money on waterless coolant and changing your transmission fluid every 25K miles.

If OP is actually making between 700-800hp (I don't even know if this is possible with the TVS1900) and is irresponsible enough to run the cooling system dry, he is probably running hot when driving hard anyways and not treating the car with any level of mechanical sympathy. But sure, let's advise him to further decrease his margin of error and increase his charge air temps by swapping his coolant for a worse conductor of heat.

You know what also prevents spending $20K on a rebuilt engine? Preventative maintenance. Which most third-owner Jaguars haven't experienced in awhile.

 

Oh, no! Another one of those with hurt feelings from facts! So typical! We need to get you to your safe space! Just stop talking, it only makes it worse for you.

Waterless coolant was made for and is used for high performance and race cars where every horsepower and reliability counts. You're only argument: It's bad for high performance cars. LOL!

 

OK, Lotus and Jaaag, STOP.

I'm not a mod so you can tell me to F'off if you like, I really don't care.

Here is my take...
A glycol based coolant has many advantages, but some serious drawbacks.

Back story. I used to be an FAA test pilot until DOGE fired me, then attempted to rehire me, before I told them to FOff.

Anyway, I've flown many glycol cooled piston a/c (Spitfire V, 19 Mustang P51, Hurricane 11b) So, I've got a good idea about glycol works).

As "Lotus" correctly states, glycol based coolants will boil at a far higher temp than water based products will. However, that's not the problem. This engines cooling system was designed to work at a certain pressure range. Moving outside of that pressure range (lower) will stop coolant flowing from where it was supposed to go. Fluids will always follow the path of least resistance. So, if a fluid is not under pressure, it will not find it into the smaller coolant galleries

I have yet to see any long time studies on the effect of glycol based coolants on AJ133/ AJ126 seals and rubber hoses and O-rings.

Whilst I support 'Lotus' in his drive towards waterless coolant, at this point I find it difficult to endorse.

wombat

 

Ok, so what damage and/or problems are you saying with your extensive aviation experience will happen to one of our engines if the coolant "will not find it into the smaller coolant galleries" due to running at close to zero pressure?

And how soon in terms of mileage and years are you saying that damage and/or problems would occur?

If you are correct, that damage and/or problems would happen to every engine, right?

 

We have to be careful as Evans makes a "special" track only coolant which is WAY different from what lotusespritse is running on the street.
Tracks have rules and generally only allow water based coolants because of the problems Glycol based coolants cause when leaking onto the track.

EVANS EXCLUSIVE TRACKWATER NON GLYCOL COOLANT

TrackWater is a high performance corrosion protected deionized inhibited water with surfactant.




Evans TrackWater

It does appear to be out of stock at the moment from Evans but I do see it from other places for about $20 for 1/2 gallon.
TrackWater

Off the subject but John Evans was a big consultant to GM for several decades and got into a huge law suit with GM. Claiming GM stole several of his inventions in the engine cooling area. The law suit dragged on for years.
Corporate drama for sure!!
.
.
.

 

Ill just be honest I never at any point thought that changing out those 2 hoses was preventative maintenance. pulling up a supercharger isnt exactly common practice but then again I really dont get on here all that often actually never unless there are issues or someone messages me directly. So if it is recommended you change out that Y crossover pipe and Valley pipe I just missed it or overlooked it. Obviously, my post have been in jest and clearly do regular maintenance. again just because someone post what they perceive to be help doesnt mean I dont reservce the right to laugh at and poke fun that is all everyone can cool out. GT40 and I have had a good laugh about all this. Ill buy the GD studs just for them to start my Fing car repair and get my baby back. Driving a Dodge Viper for a daily isnt as much fun as one might think !

 

Well, other than the pressure from the coolant pump.(part of the "close to" you're referring to I'd guess?)
While some cooling systems (none relevant to a modern automotive context) might not have a coolant pump, our cars do, and have pressure on the output.
Not sure about UK fixed wing pilots (I've only worked with U.K. pilots of the AH-64 (rotary wing) since they don't buy our F-16's or F-15's), but I know from working on USAF & USN aircraft system & with plenty of pilots of them, while the (USAF & USN) pilots know a bit about the systems (primarily avionics off course), none of the good ones (of hundreds), actually none I can recall; would even begin to profess to have expert knowledge of all systems, but that is the US pilots I've worked with.
I understand the pressure (or the absence of in terms on waterless coolant) you're talking about is in reference to expansion due to heat, but to your argument, automobile systems don't rely on thermal pressure for flow through the system, keeping in mind that operation of the radiator is designed such that the hotter coolant enters at the top & cooler coolant flows out of the bottom, not dependent on coolant temp, but on coolant system flow from the pump.

Anyway, I'm in the area of adding no value to the conversation... so I'll fade out here......

 

What ever happened to a product I remember (but never got around to buying) called "Water Wetter"?
I never looked into it a lot, but IIRC it claimed/claims to help coolant (with water) flow & cool better?
Have any of you had experience with that?

 

Yes, it's snake oil. I had a 1991 Lotus Esprit (hence the name) and a 2000 Dodge Viper that both had trouble from brand new staying cool during normal driving in Texas summers. Water Wetter did nothing to improve the situation and that was what others I know experienced as well.

Our Jags have zero issue staying cool in extreme temps when everything is working correctly, so there is zero benefit to us. If you think you need Water Wetter on your X351, you really just need to fix your car.

 

Hello all

I add few points for gentlemans commersation:
First point: Yes: On most race track the rules (FIA etc..) count all exept water out as a coolant. (exept winter events) Reason is simple: Water drys out rather quickly without leaving slippery remains on track if and when leaked. No matter what adverts say this is a fact and easy to anybody to check from technical regulations. ( glygol is more slippery under soft compound racetyre than oil. Dont remember anymore why, something to do with surface tension?)
Second point is fluid dynamics, more presice cavitation, what are greatly reducted by pressure. This is speciality in case of high rewing water pump inpellers and high flow channels. (not only in vehicles but central household heating systems as well are pressuried bacause reduct of harmfull cavitation)

However: I think its good for all to hear experiment of Lotusespritse warerless coolant, because pressure on coolant system have two sides: Its the main reason cracking the plastic piping / coolant components.
My succestion is that back off, calm down and leave the desission what fluid each owner use its vehicle. Millions of vehicles run with traditional "water" based coolant without issues, but how many you know who use waterless?
( Lotusespritse: You might like to push little less )

 

I don't push hard on Evans, but I always let people know what works and what doesn't from my own experience. It's called being helpful and contributing. What is not helpful is someone who has never used a product in their life bashing it because they are afraid of new things they don't understand, all while pretending to be the foremost authority on the topic. I have zero patience for those people. They do far more harm than good, spreading their wives' tales and keeping people who don't realize they aren't experts or experienced with the products/solutions from good things.

So, maybe spend your time fixing the real problem, which is those people, and also try to protect those who are truly contributing with helpful information.

 

You can call the forum police, but you're the only one participating in ad hominem attacks. You introduce anecdotal evidence but I'm just following the laws of thermodynamics. The fact remains: Evans performs worse than 50/50 coolant. That's bad news for IAT2 temps in our air-to-water charge coolers and bad news for OP's tuned motor on the OEM radiator. I won't use a coolant that is 5x more expensive and only half as effective, and I won't advise it to someone who is already pushing the limits of the stock cooling system on a good run (clearly, or the headgaskets might still be intact).

On a side note, Evans "Trackwater" is basically just distilled water with Water Wetter added- at $40 per gallon!

 

So.....coolant discussions are like oil discussions.

That's all I got from all the above posts so far.

 

You're not good at reading and comprehension then. Any oil in these discussions will keep your engine safe so the oil discussion is one of splitting hairs. However, one type of coolant is constantly blowing up our engines in the real world day after day and totaling cars, not to mention ruining the reputation and resale value of our Jaguars, and the other is preventing catastrophic engine failures.

How can you miss that??

 

There you go talking out of your *** again with no real world experience and just your personal and incorrect theories.

Anecdotal evidence?? What a stupid thing to say. When engineers test new designs to see if they work, that's anecdotal evidence that should be dismissed? Absolutely ridiculous comment to try and prove yourself right when you are flat out wrong.

I have 3 cars with this coolant, and none of them have performance loss or any other problems, at all. None. And the coolant is used in race cars, but you still want to fight the facts just to prove you are right when you are wrong.

Again, how stupid is it to say you won't spent a couple hundred dollars extra on a coolant that will prevent catastrophic engine failure that costs a minimum of $20K to fix, not to mention the cost savings from other failure items like water pumps? And since it is a lifetime fluid because it doesn't need the corrosion additives that dissipate in regular water based coolants, it even pays for itself over the long haul.

Keep going with your lies and misdirection.

 

That's good to know, I haven't missed anything then, and that's probably why I forgot about Water Wetter for so many years.
My wife's 2012 XJ (NA) is an example of having no problem as you said. Here in central Florida we get our share of hot extremes, as does Texas and most of the rest of the contiguous U.S., and it doesn't break a sweat. It's always had the stock coolant, and when I replaced the aged/worn components of the cooling system, I stuck with the stock JLR parts as I will if we still have it another 8 years/80k miles from now.

 

Yes, i am following the same rule of helpfull and talking by my experience, instead of what i think to be correct. By that way others will write their experiense and i will learn from them. Giving false advices actually can be very dangerous, but there are trolls in many forums weirdly enjoying that. (like in one forum advice to use engine oil as brake fluid -huh- )
But i can see bit different between you and me. This make me wonder how you tolerate yourself, because even you are not always right and donīt nessesary always know everything. None of us canīt. I am not talking this thread but overall. What happens on these moments you learnt new or have found out that you were wrong? Do you get mad yourself?
Also many young people react agression with agression, usually this is also sign of unsure. (not sure about the correct word in english) Older and more experienced/educated persons usually just donīt wind up with it.

Just hypotese: You donīt have time machine (i am 99.8% sure of it, but if you have, please tell me as a first person) so you donīt know by 100% what will happen your engine after xxx amount time / xxxx amount of miles with waterless cooland. What if you have been wrong all the time and you will find it have been destroyed your engine? And you have been pushed hardly others to use it also ending with ruined engines. Lot of if:s but none of us donīt know what will happen in future.
This is what i like to know and i am following and honoring your experience, because i personally donīt know anybody who uses it - we donīt have extreme heats, hardly any AJ126/133 here and glygol is not allowed on our racecars. I understand the pros and cons, but as we know very well that only real world tests give up the final results.
Just saying that there are always two sides, sometimes even more, so lets just keep going and donīt let others go under your skin.