It may all boil down to age.

The car is now 7 years old.

In that time bushings wear, alignments drift, bearings wear, powersteering fluid degrades, you get the idea.

Try finding professional reviews of the car written when it was new. Something like steering judder would likely have been mentioned if it was observed.

 

.....

 

I never read a review complaining about steering judder, but most reviews I have read (or watched) said that the cars were too soft (even Rs) and with not enough steering feedback to be considered a serious driver car. I happen to agree. But I did not buy this car to tear up the twisties. There are other cars that do that much better, and they're NOT luxury flagship sedans.

 

I think how the word "handling" is defined makes all the difference. Here, I don't think we're talking about absolute cornering ability, etc. We're talking about feel and stability in cornering and ability to inspire confidence during hard driving. Maybe Jaguar just did it all wrong, but I think at least some of it has to do with the fact that the car is trying to be too many things--large, lightweight, comfortable, sporty, etc.

BTW does anyone notice the CATS suspension doing anything during hard cornering? I thought it was supposed to stiffen things up when you're tearing it up in the twisties? The only thing I notice during hard driving is the transmission will keep the RPMs high (avoid upshifting to lower gears) when you let off the gas, which is nice.

 

No, but I bet it could have a pretty touchy brake pedal that might be hard to modulate--which was my original point. I've never driven one so I can't say. I'm sure the technology is getting better, but for a long time, most ABS cars had spongy brake pedals. Trust me, the X350's brake pedal is not nearly as bad as some others I've driven!

 

I agree. In broad terms cars with ABS brakes have a softer pedal. Back in the 80s some were particularly bad. Nowdays, not quite so much...but still not the "hard" pedal of non-ABS cars.

I think the idea is that a softer pedal encourages the driver to keep bearing down harder and harder on the pedal ....and let the ABS do the modulating. Which is exactly what's supposed to happen.

No doubt more or less squishy-ness can be engineered into the system and ultra high performance cars have a minimal amount, if any.

Cheers
DD

 

What we have here is a failure in semantics.

Sure a vehicle with 50/50 weight distribution and very low center of gravity and light weight construction is going to be fast and handle quite well. But I do not believe anyone is trying to compare two COMPLETELY different vehicle types!

What has seemed to be a common concern over multiple threads is that the X350/358 handles quite differently than its substantially heavier competition, vehicles in equivalent classes for size and type, large, 4-door luxury sedans NOT sports cars and if anyone is trying to make that comparison well then they should have their nuts & bolts checked.

Obviously two different makes & models are not going to drive exactly the same but if you check the specs on BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc you will see their flagships weigh in at 1,000 to 2,000 pounds more than the Jag!!! Now tell me that is not supposed to affect the way the car handles.....

 

Semantics does enter in, yes :-)

And perhaps I'm beating a dead horse....but.....

If the XJ8 doesnt "handle as well" as the 1500 pound heavier BMW, it's not because the Jag is too light.

Can you imagine an BMW engineer saying "The car weighs about the same as an XJ8 and handles very well but we want it to out-handle the Jag, so our only choice is to add 1500 pounds." ??

Not hardly! They're saying "despite weighing 1500 pounds more our car has been engineered to handle better than the Jag."

This applies whether "handling" is defined as a smooth ride, maximum cornering power, steering response, whatever.

Cheers
DD

 

This is true, but people act as though reducing weight doesn't have any negative consequences. Not sure if it's true, but in theory, wouldn't lighter weight would require softer springs to maintain the same level of ride quality, which would result in sloppier handling? That's my explanation, anyhow, as to why the XJ just never feels very buttoned down in hard cornering.

 

This is Jaguar's take on that:



I think wheel sizes make a big difference. When I was searching for the car I have now I test drove an XJR and an XJ8 back to back. I was used to an X308 XJR and found the X350 XJ8 very vague and wallowy. The XJR felt very planted and you could almost feel the edges of the tyres as you turned the steering wheel from side to side. The XJ8 had 18" wheels and the XJR 20".

My XJ8 has the 20" Sepangs and I find it a good combination of the softer suspension but low profile tyres.

 

Such as ?

If the suspension settings/specs are adjusted to allow for the lighter weight, which naturally would have to be done, I can't think of any downsides.











Yes!







No ! Because the springs are now contending less weight.






Which could be casused by a variety of design issues. I truly don't think lack of weight is gonna be one of them. Be it 2500 pounds or 4500 pounds, a car can be buttoned down or loose as a goose depending on the suspension design and tuning.


Cheers
DD

 

Well if that's the case, Jaguar just sucks at suspension design.

 

This thread may take the record for one of the strangest we have had on this forum. The cacophony of informed, educated and experienced voices against the uninformed,uneducated and inexperienced voices is a pure joy.
I keep telling myself not to read anymore of it but I'm drawn to it like a slow motion train wreck film. Every time I think I'm on God's side in this discussion---------.
I can't believe I'm even posting in a silly discussion having to do with the relative merits of the Jag XJs vis a vis the Lincoln Town Car. The hell of it is, I'm learning a few things.
Stop me before I post again.

 

Dear me...
You know Alan,...
ahh, I give up

 

Like tarheal I have been unable to avert my eyes from this train wreck of a thread. Not suprisingly I have an opinion and sort of agree that the Jaguar feels a bit less planted than some other luxury cruisers.

My 2005 Super V8 probably needs some suspension work (bushings and the like) but I doubt that it would make it feel as confident as my parents 2000-ish E Class Mercedes. There are some local windy roads that I find myself driving much faster in the Mercedes as it just feels more capable. Of course my definition of driving fast is probably 5 mph over the speed limit so take it for what it's worth.

 

So what's the conclusion? No, it doesn't feel like a Lincoln Towncar?

Frankly I'm surprised that someone would say an X350 doesn't handle as well as an X300 and doesn't have the same steering feedback, although I've never driven an X300!

 

All I can do is speak from experience. My engineering merits lie outside the realm of the automotive industry. I do know that many factors come into play, from weight, suspension, wheel diameter/width, aerodynamic design, etc. all I can say is the heavier cars I have had or driven seem to absorb varieties of road conditions in a way the XJ does not.

I have owned many, many cars from the luxury brands and have always had 2-4 at a time in addition to a good friend of mine who does the same thing, but limits himself to BMW & Mercedes. We both agree there is something special about the XJ beyond it's cosmetic appeal. As I have mentioned before, I have driven his 760Li for days at a time (among others). IT handles okay, but it is boring, dull, numb, floaty and uninspiring. I typically keep cars no more than 2-3 years, sometimes less. The Super V8 has been the exception. It is a car I have had the pleasure of driving 900-1500 miles a day non-stop many times and makes me want to keep driving every time I do. Obviously the new XK out handles it and my 5.7 Hemi powered Dodge Ram are not even in the same category. I don't drive the XJ everyday, sometimes for weeks at a time and every time I come back to it, it is like a breath of fresh air...smooth, comfortable, quiet, inviting.

 

Maybe Doug is right that it has little to do with weight, because now that I think about it, the last car I had ('97 Lexus LS400) absorbed bumps perfectly well and it weighed the same as the X350 (3800 lbs or so). Then again, it was a smaller car (narrower, shorter wheelbase, etc.).

 

:-)

My conclusion is that a group of people with no aversion to vague terminology are discussing a loosely defined topic which has an element of subjectivity without first establishing in any way, shape, of from that any of the others are discussing the same thing in the same terms.

In other words "we're not all on the same page".

:-)


Cheers
DD

 

That is for certain!