I recently purchased a 2005 XJ8 L. Previously, I owned two X300 Vanden Plas jags. While the X300 jags did not drive like a BMW or Mercedes, they did have a distinctive European feel to them. The steering, brakes and suspension were all European in terms of the overall driving experience. Overall, the X300 offered a very good driving experience.

However, the X350 feels like a mushy Lincoln Towncar rather than a jaguar. Between the air suspension, the mushy brakes, and the lack of feedback in the steering, it seems like the X350 no longer has the traditional jaguar driving experience. I find it disappointing that the X350 does drive like a jag of prior years. I also find that the X350 does not instill the confidence of the older cars when driving aggressively on twisty roads (is the XJR similar even with the "sport" suspension?)

 

Honestly coming from the BMW marque I have to say its not a BMW as far as steering feedback and nimbleness on its feet . The brakes on our cars are terrible I totally agree . In comparison the BMW was way better and no mushiness at all. Nothing in its class handles like a BMW in my 25 yrs of driving experience. Now as far as compared to a Mercedez Benz being that my dad has a s500 4matic and I have the ability to switch back n forth I can assure you the Benz is much more softer then the 3 and it feels MUCH more solid with no creeks rattles or squeaks anywhere. The Benz is definitely the car that feels put together the best and you can just tell this car demands respect when driven... The jaguar is stuck somewhere in between . Not at as heavy as the Benz but definitely not as nimble as the BMW. The BMW out of the 3 is the best driver . The Benz is the best highway cruiser and the best built . Our x350-8 cars???? well somewhere in between. It wants so hard to play w the BMW on the twisties but it just CAN NOT ... There is way too much body roll . The brakes (my biggest complaint thus far) are dog **** and the steering is just not tight enough or communicative enough of whats going on at the contact areas of where road meets tire..... Im sorry if I rambled a bit but I have experience with all 3 cars ... Forget Lincoln no where near a lincoln.. BTW my dads Benz is a 2004 just like my Jaguar

 

I just went upstate last wkend and was driving the Jag on some beautiful twistie roads on the way to my destination house. The Jag just did not inspire confidence on the twisties. First of all why the hell does the steering quiver through a turn? and I know its not just my car because ive read a few ppl have the same thing going on w there cars as well. The car just feels nervous in the bends and im not sure if a bigger sway bar would help this a bit or what but the car does not inspire much confidence in the twisties.. The steering is also a bit too loose for my tastes . Maybe its because I have been spoiled w the BMW experience pretty much my whole life or what but The BMW is the standard in my opinion. On the highway its pretty smoothe almost as smoothe as the Benz but doesnt feel quite as solid as the Benz . But all in all to me the shape inside and out is second to none . BMW unfortunately has become a truck company these days and I refuse to buy another one until they get back to there roots of making fun CARS to drive around in sport and luxury in. The Benz is also boring to me . The Jaguar has a uniqueness about her and a character its own. Its also the car that I drive like its made of glass because im scared of breaking it......... Lincolns are piece a craps why would you even think it felt like a lincoln anyway bro?

 

I would rather buy a Mercury Marquis then a Lincoln Town Car , I drove BMW 7 ,penultimate gen , it felt so smooth too .I can't comment on the present gen though

Well, may be bouncy suspension is due to air suspension settings , if you eliminate it you could feel like you drive a Jaguar , just my a cup of tea

 

If a decision must be made between "luxury" and "performance", Jaguar has always leaned towards the luxury side of the compromise. I know that's a broad statement but I believe it's accurate.

I reckon the "R" version of any Jaguar model is much closer to the BMW but even then a really aggressive driver would probably prefer the BMW.

I wonder if offering the "R" variants gave Jaguar the opportunity to make the standard cars to be even more luxurious and less sporty? I dunno, but it's not an unreasonable speculation, IMHO.

Cheers
DD

 

I think weight comes into play. The X350, particularly the LWB, is a large car but lacking the added weight the competition offers results in a sometimes jittery and less confident ride. Though it has been nearly 10 years and many cars ago, I bought one of the new W220 LWB S-Class cars when they gave it a complete makeover. A lot of Benz owners had similar complaints at the time saying they preferred the previous design as it was quieter, smother and firmer. Personally I remember it being one of the best driving cars I had ever had other than it constantly being in the shop and the cheap interior plastic parts falling apart...And it was a lot heavier than the X350 and still got the same gas mileage25-28 mpg on a good day.

By the way, as I have mentioned this before, try driving your car with 3 passengers, the difference is pretty substantial. Again, these car are just too damn light.

As far as braking, try the Brembos, they stop on a dime with little effort.

BMWs used to handle like no other cars, they were just tuned differently. The new ones however just plain suck! The reliability has gone out the window and they don't handle like the used to.

 

Does BMW offer a LWB version? No! Did I get the LWB for tight cornering? No!

 

Ummm, yes they do, that is what the "L" stands for...760i v. 760Li, etc

 

Well I'll just throw in my 2 cents worth. I drive an 05 XJR. Speaking just for this car:

1.The brakes are excellent and well modulated. Standard components on all 4 corners. If you aren't satisfied with the brakes on a 350 R you need some service work IMHO.

2. A joy to drive through the twists. No drama, shakes or quivers. Straight and true and nicely balanced. If your 350 XJR isn't like this may I suggest you look to your tires and/or suspension components. Something is not up to par.

3. The ride is suitable and pleasant for 2 to 3 hours. After that the narrow seats and firm suspension begin to tell. Not the best all day cruiser around. The car does really well over rough, broken and uneven surfaces.

If you want a smooth all day turnpike cruiser the Lincoln Town Car is the ticket. I had a 94 Lincoln President. Brakes weren't the best in hard service from 65+ to zero. Acceleration and handling were a joke but it absorbed rough and broken pavement well as long as you were not turning too hard (under steer). A pleasant cross country trip, 500 miles or better per day, I would go for the Lincoln.

I suspect that turnpike cruising in a standard XJ or XJ VDP would be quite satisfactory in a properly set up and maintained XJ.

One last thing. Criticising a Jag of any type because it isn't a BMW or Lincoln makes one smile. There may be a basic lack of understanding/discernment at work here. IMHO. Jags were never meant to be either one.

 

Yeah I agree with these comments.
I think that on the non " R " cars they err heavily on the comfort side; as you say it ain't too bad till you push on a bit hard then you can get the wobbles and shakes really fast, not exactly confidence inspiring. To be fair, I think they have always been this way on the sedans I have driven from the sixties and on, (come to think of it the 63 E Type I had could bite you in the *** as well).
Interestingly from what I have seen in recent road tests of the new models they appear to be moving away from the total insulation, riding on air, I have arrived feel and gone for more dynamic handling.
On past generations of XJ it was often possible to get a "sport" option from the factory which was an upgrade of handling without more horsepower, that would be nice but I assume they thought it would detract from R sales if it was done now.
I guess the other option to do this on this model would have been to allow the sport button to stiffen up the suspension instead of just holding the tranny shift points.
Having said all that....when I was originally looking for one of these I had my heart set on an R Short Wheel Base, sadly few and far between in my area so I settled on the regular car and I must say all in all I am quite happy with the performance and handling for 90% of the time, and I assume would be happier at the pumps.

 

Can you elaborate on this?

Which model(s)? In what way is the handling not what it used to be?

I'm not arguing, and I'll confess that my BMW experience is limited, but I'm having a difficult time accepting that the handling of a new BMW was be so sub-par that anyone would say that they "suck" !

How has BMW changed?


Cheers
DD

 

Whenever such discussions come up I often wonder if everyone is on the same page with respect to how hard they drive.

To give some sort of baseline I'll say that, for me, a spirited drive thru the twisties is something well above the speed limit where some concentration is required but I'm still relaxed. I don't feel like the car (nor my skill) is being pushed to the limit. I make no claim to being a superior driver, BTW. When I'm done I'll say "That was fun!"

"Aggressive" would be when I'm wondering (OK, a bit worried) that I'm going too far with the car. I'll hear the tires protesting, the traction control might well be activated out of the corners, and my body is thrown into the door panel on right turns. I'll be trying to keep the car just on the cusp of throttle oversteer. When I'm done I'll probably be smelling the brakes....and I'll probably say "Whew. That was a workout!"

In a "spirited" driving scenario I've never had a problem staying glued to the backside of a BMW. Of course, it can be hard to determine just how hard the other is guy is trying :-)

I limit my aggressive driving and am very selective about where and when I partake. A 4200 pound Jag is just too much to reel in if it gets away from the driver :-)

Cheers
DD

 

I do think a lot of the quirkiness of the car's handling and ride when pushed hard has to do with is the unusual combination of large size and light weight. For me, the car just never feels very buttoned down. But it is very nimble for a car of this size, which is really what makes a car the most fun to drive, IMO. I've never had it "shake" during hard cornering, but then again I rarely drive the car that hard. The braking is somewhat squishy but not terrible. Almost every car with ABS will have somewhat squishy braking. If it doesn't, it will have an extremely touchy brake pedal.

To say the X350 handles like a Lincoln Town Car is an insult to both cars. The Ford Panther platform is much more rugged and is much more capable of absorbing impacts in the suspension than the X350. However, when you compare the nimbleness to the X350, there is just no comparison.

 

Is much of a difference between the handling, suspension, steering feedback and brakes between a XJ8/XJ8 L and a XJR?

 

The XJR is a SWB and that in its self affects handling compared to the LWB.

Steering is the same across the lineup, if I am not mistaken.

The XJR has less travel on the air suspension, making the ride stiffer. The Super V8 shares the same rear suspension as the XJR, but with the LWB and comfort front air bags.

Brembo brakes were only available on certain years of the XJR & Super V8 and offered the best performance IMHO over all other variants. Other years for those two models used performance brakes, different from all other XJ versions.

 

Maybe I was being a bit harsh However I do speak from experience. From time to time I have my friends new 760Li and while it feels heavier than my Super V8, it also drive a bit like a Lexus. And it spends most of its time in the shop for warranty service. I also drove the new M3 and was underwhelmed with they way it handled when compared to its predecessor.

 

Absolutely!

 

I can honestly say that this is the only time I've ever heard of lighter weight ever being a detriment to vehicle handling, no matter how the word is defined.

Lighter weight, per se, is not a problem.

If the suspension isn't matched to (among many things) the weight then, yes, the results won't be good. If an XJ8 quivers, shakes, rolls excessively...or whatever...while cornering, it's not because the car doesn't weigh enough.

If more weight was a positive factor in the high speed cornering ability of a car, if that's how we're defining "handling" at the moment, then 911s would weigh 5000 pounds :-).

Cheers
DD

 

Better let Lotus know to add a few pounds across the board...
dear me.

 

that is a very silly statement to make

http://www.edmunds.com/ferrari/458-i...ml?style=&sub=

is this a "squishy brake car"?...
damn what car today does not have ABS

the point being made at the top of this post was about "feel and performance" and if you bothered to read my prior post ....