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First, a disclaimer: I'm an amateur at home mechanic. (Read: fluids, filter, brake work and oil changes) But I'm a new empty-nester who's ready to sponge up some additional repair skills. This forum has taught me a ton already. Thank you to everyone that contributes to the cause.
The issue that I'm dealing with is a phantom coolant leak. I did some searches and read multiple threads, but I didn't run across any that seemed to be my exact issue in the same location. Possibly, the answer is already out there and it's just that I need a push in the right direction. Just believe me when I say laziness is not driving my post on the subject.
So, now that the preamble is out of the way. I submit for your reading pleasure (or pain)...
My Initial Observations:
Car has not yet overheated; at least not thrown a warning in the dash
When the car sits cold, there are no obvious leaks and coolant level is stationary
When I drive the car like I want to save gas mileage (not usually - haha) keeping it under 4k RPMs, no obvious leaks and coolant level let's say is mostly stationary
If I drive her harder, between 4k-7k RPMs, there will be leaking on my garage floor and the coolant level will obviously drop
To give you an idea of the amount of leakage... On an hour-long drive like this, the coolant level will go from the Max to the Min
The leak seems to be somewhere closer to the reservoir-side of the engine; midline to top of engine on the passenger side (US spec) closer to the firewall
Some pics for reference: coolant leak near reservoir tank coolant leak near engine on passenger side (US spec) coolant leak near engine and firewall
What I've Tried So Far:
Put on code reader and no faults
Caveat: My code reader cost me $80, not $350+
Drove around doing some spirited driving, came back to the garage, let it idle in park, gave it some gas
No obvious leaks found real-time
Rented a coolant pressure tester (MotoRad brand with correct adapter), put it under 29psi pressure
No hissing, no gurgling, no bubbling, no obvious leaking
First, be aware that there is a padded undertray below the engine that can soak up a LOT of leaking fluid. Removing the tray for a period of time so you can more easily detect a leak may be warranted. Just don't go doing a high-speed run without that tray.
First, be aware that there is a padded undertray below the engine that can soak up a LOT of leaking fluid. Removing the tray for a period of time so you can more easily detect a leak may be warranted. Just don't go doing a high-speed run without that tray.
Appreciate the feedback. I will remove the tray and look for more obvious leaking that may be hidden currently by the tray.
Just doing this on the XF 3.0SC.
Leaks under high load, not when hot or low loads.
Mine was the thermostat housing top cover leaking. But thats on the LHS forward.
Take the under tray off, and see, anything stains in the under tray, cw pooling, and on which side.
or the expansion tank level sensor/outlet pipe, or the vent pipe. The joint between the rubber and the hard plastic line. The S shaped line lower left of your first photo.
Be careful, as the small bore plastic line can be very brittle.
Have you had any work done, recently?
Do you have a endoscope camera, for a cell phone. dual camera something like the below.
This will let you check the usual suspects, rear heater header, front CW pipes, and the valley for cw pooling. The Water pump tell tail., and under the expansion tank if anything has been blown back.
With the under tray off and after a good run temperature and pressure. Look up while the car is on a ramp from below. (carefully)
Just doing this on the XF 3.0SC.
Leaks under high load, not when hot or low loads.
Mine was the thermostat housing top cover leaking. But thats on the LHS forward.
Take the under tray off, and see, anything stains in the under tray, cw pooling, and on which side.
or the expansion tank level sensor/outlet pipe, or the vent pipe. The joint between the rubber and the hard plastic line. The S shaped line lower left of your first photo.
Be careful, as the small bore plastic line can be very brittle.
Have you had any work done, recently?
Do you have a endoscope camera, for a cell phone. dual camera something like the below.
This will let you check the usual suspects, rear heater header, front CW pipes, and the valley for cw pooling. The Water pump tell tail., and under the expansion tank if anything has been blown back.
With the under tray off and after a good run temperature and pressure. Look up while the car is on a ramp from below. (carefully)
I don't have an endoscope camera, but I will pick one up.
I appreciate the list of additional items to check!
How many miles on your car? Do you have any history as to the water pump or any coolant pipes previously been replaced? Water pumps are a given to need replacing and more than likely has been replaced already. Once you've located your leak, it might be prudent to replace as many coolant pipes, and connections as feasibly possible as our cars are notorious for coolant system leaks. Regardless, once things are removed, other parts get disturbed (collateral damage) Over time, the plastic cooling pipes will inevitably get brittle. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
How many miles on your car? Do you have any history as to the water pump or any coolant pipes previously been replaced? Water pumps are a given to need replacing and more than likely has been replaced already. Once you've located your leak, it might be prudent to replace as many coolant pipes, and connections as feasibly possible as our cars are notorious for coolant system leaks. Regardless, once things are removed, other parts get disturbed (collateral damage) Over time, the plastic cooling pipes will inevitably get brittle. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
Thank you for the additional thoughts. Yes, I have noticed that issues with the water pumps seem to come up frequently in the forum threads.
As far as The Gray Ghost is concerned, I'm not sure if it has had the water pump replaced. I bought the car with a little over 55k miles and have put around 5k miles on it in the 15 months since I purchased it.
Around 12 months ago, I replaced what the workshop manual calls the 'Engine vent hose' (see Item #1 from attached image), which runs from the reservoir tank over towards the front of the engine. I have not found any leaks there, although in fairness the leak that I'm trying to track down seems like it's in the vicinity. Odd that the leak only began within the last month or so if it was related to my replacement almost a year earlier. Not impossible, though. Engine vent hose callout from the Workshop Manual
Get a cheap Pressure Test Cap and you can pressurize a cold system. It's quite a bit easier cold since, well, Not Hot.
I actually tried that already (the last bullet in my original diatribe). Pumped the tester up to 29psi and I didn't see any obvious leaks. Once I take off the panel on the underside of the car, I will run this test again, and provide an update.
I actually tried that already (the last bullet in my original diatribe). Pumped the tester up to 29psi and I didn't see any obvious leaks. Once I take off the panel on the underside of the car, I will run this test again, and provide an update.
Crap, I forgot that part of your post #1. Sorry 'bout that.
I actually tried that already (the last bullet in my original diatribe). Pumped the tester up to 29psi and I didn't see any obvious leaks. Once I take off the panel on the underside of the car, I will run this test again, and provide an update.
29lbs seems excessive. I would pump to 15lbs and call it a day. You don’t want to first cause damage.
29lbs seems excessive. I would pump to 15lbs and call it a day. You don’t want to first cause damage.
From reading Jaguar bulletins as the years went along in the XKR x150 production run, the latter 2010 XKRs and subsequent production years, Jaguar bumped the coolant pressure up to 200 kpa (that equates to 29 psi). For example, my reservoir cap is the 200 kpa version.
Get a cheap Pressure Test Cap and you can pressurize a cold system. It's quite a bit easier cold since, well, Not Hot.
Unfortunately, You apparently need Hot CW, as well as Pressure to find the B*gger! As the leak apparently manifests itself at high pump discharge pressures (revs) and high operating temperatures.
UPDATE:
Removed the air deflector/undertray and put the coolant system back under pressure using Motorad pump/adapter on reservoir.
Still didn't find any active leaks (oil seepage on engine gaskets don't count; "one issue at a time" I whisper to my ADD brain, "the seepage is not going anywhere"). So, bottom line, no active coolant leaks under cold pressure.
The undertray is definitely wet to the touch on the right side. Not soaking wet, but coolant has gathered in that area for sure. The insulation pad is looking pretty ratty at the moment. Is this something that I should look to replace or is that "boujee" (as my 20-something kids say these days)? undertray wet from coolant leak
Well, if you replace the pad (I certainly don't know HOW you would accomplish that) or even the full undertray (a used one would be crappy even IF you could find one), nobody but you will ever see it. Sure, it's probably a couple pounds heavier than a clean one, but just eat one less donut per month and you'll be fine. I like donuts.
So, either a closeted pleb or unnoticed on fleek.
Red square, is right at back of engine. More or less where you are seeing the CW salts on the engine top.
Which could be expansion tank. hoses and vent line and the level alarm switch plug.
The rear heater manifold?.
Or if you are going down hill, while leaving the garage, just about anything which leaks and pools cw in the engine valley and exits stage right when moving off.
More importantly, now you have the under tray off.
Can you see any cw salt staining, white powdery salt stains on the bell mouth of the transmission, or in any other areas from below. To give a bit better indication of where the leak is coming from.
I don´t say, it´s your case, but if engine block or cylinderheadblock got fine cracks or to keep the ball low ... if your cooling radiator has fine cracks or any other part, which can expand when hot, you need to check with high pressure when engine is hot. Checking with cool engine and cool parts just show big holes or rubberparts
Mine started seeping a bit at the rear-top of the engine, marked by ooze seeping down the torque converter cover. I figured YAY, the valley hoses so I had everything replaced. It turned out to be a seeping oil cooler, if I remember correctly.
Well, if you replace the pad (I certainly don't know HOW you would accomplish that) or even the full undertray (a used one would be crappy even IF you could find one), nobody but you will ever see it. Sure, it's probably a couple pounds heavier than a clean one, but just eat one less donut per month and you'll be fine. I like donuts.
So, either a closeted pleb or unnoticed on fleek.
Red square, is right at back of engine. More or less where you are seeing the CW salts on the engine top.
Which could be expansion tank. hoses and vent line and the level alarm switch plug.
The rear heater manifold?.
Or if you are going down hill, while leaving the garage, just about anything which leaks and pools cw in the engine valley and exits stage right when moving off.
More importantly, now you have the under tray off.
Can you see any cw salt staining, white powdery salt stains on the bell mouth of the transmission, or in any other areas from below. To give a bit better indication of where the leak is coming from.
No one said it would be easy!
Some pics from underneath on the passenger side (I don't see any fresh coolant colored stains or dry salt stains on the driver's side)...
Coolant Leak/Pressure Question
