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XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

Not enough heat and winter is upon us !

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  #1  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:50 AM
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Default Not enough heat and winter is upon us !

Winter has suddenly arrived here in good old England with icy blasts from the Arctic icecap, and I suddenly have noticed (1) seat heaters don't seem to be working, and (2) heater doesn't seem to be pushing out much heat.

The seat heater switch lights come on but the seats don't seem to warm up. Yesterday I put one of the rear seat heaters on, as well as the driver seat, but neither got warm on the four mile trip. Just where does one start on a problem like this ? As far as I remember the seats worked last winter.

The heater also doesn't seem to push out really hot air, although the engine warms up as quickly as it always has. The temperature on both sides seem low and there is not much warmth to the windscreen, especially with it on "Auto". If a go to manual, and press some of the distribution buttons all the vents seem to open correctly and I can make the fan blow max. Putting the temperature settings to Hi makes the blower run at max, but the air is not hot just warm. The wife's New Beetle heater air gets much hotter with that on Max. Could I have a partly blocked heater matrix ? The 3 litre petrols don't have a separate heater pump like the V8s. Of course the car gets warm enough eventually, but it does take quite a long time.

On my previous X350, I never had any problems in this area. Since 2010 I have read about heat on one side and little on the other side, but mine seems to be warmth both sides but not really as hot as one wants. The seat heaters really is a PITA as one relies on these to make you comfortable quickly.

Anybody had similar problems.
 
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:04 AM
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Is auxiliary pump good?

On the seat heaters has anyone measured the resistance of the sensor (white/green to white/black wires from seat bottom) at different temperatures to see if it a positive or negative coefficient (does resistance increase or decrease with temperature). There are quite a few people with Honda MC that have added a resistor inline with their sensor to increase the temperature of their three output level seat heaters.

See this posting to their forums
So you say your heated seats don't get hot enough? - GL1800Riders
 
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:42 PM
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Well if there is no aux pump on the coolant and the engine warms up as before there is

only the matrix?

The other possibility is plastic t'stat housing breaking up and restricting flow but would

this show up in the coolant warm up rate or a coolant temp higher than normal?

I agree that usually when the matrix is partially blocked you only lose heat on one

side.

WRT seat heaters start with wiring diag and relay(s)
 
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
Is auxiliary pump good?
Pragmatic: It's 3L V6, it doesn't have an aux pump (it's the only engine option that doesn't)

Fraser: I reckon your best bet is to back flush the heater core, and maybe try the Ford / Jaguar approved flushing agent:

Jaguar Premium Cooling System Flush EGR-M14P7-A (workshop manual)

Edit: that number seems to be a misprint; it's probably ESR-M14P7-A
 

Last edited by Partick the Cat; 11-24-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Partick the Cat View Post
Pragmatic: It's 3L V6, it doesn't have an aux pump (that's the only engine that hasn't)

Fraser: I reckon your best bet is to back flush the heater core, and maybe try the Ford / Jaguar approved flushing agent:

Jaguar Premium Cooling System Flush EGR-M14P7-A (workshop manual)

Edit: that number seems to be a misprint; it's probably ESR-M14P7-A
Use Zerex 10 minute Radiator Super Flush (22 Oz.) which is the exact chemical composition as the Ford specification. It's easy to find.
 

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Old 11-24-2017, 04:22 PM
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I did another, albeit short, trip today and got the engine up to temperature as indicated on the engine temperature gauge by the time I got to my mother's house, then drove back and set the climate control to manual and selected the head and feet setting. With fan running at quite a lick, temperature set to 26.5C, the air coming out was warm, but not really hot enough frankly. I'm thinking the heater matrix is really the item that is partly blocked but I haven't the test equipment to get some figures together. So it will be a trip to a workshop sometime next week. As I understand it one needs a temperature gauge to measure the output air temperature.

They can have a look at the seat heaters as well. Maybe these take longer to warm up than I thought. Rear passenger side does get warm but not by much, as does driver seat, but it is nowhere near what I'd expect.

I'll keep you all posted. I am a bit upset as the car has been so good up to now.
 
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Box View Post
Use Zerex 10 minute Radiator Super Flush (22 Oz.) which is the exact chemical composition as the Ford specification. It's easy to find.
Thanks for the tip.
Do you know what is that spec so that I have a chance to source it in Europe?
And sorry to divert from the PO's thread
 
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by paydase View Post
Thanks for the tip.
Do you know what is that spec so that I have a chance to source it in Europe?
And sorry to divert from the PO's thread
Flushes that contain only this CAS in their MSDS or Motorcraft VC-1

ETHYLENEDIAMINETETRAACETIC ACID, TETRASODIUM SALT CAS #64-02-8 @ >=5-<10%

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...ing%20Products

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us166625us.pdf
 

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Old 11-25-2017, 03:07 PM
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The chances of 5-10% solution EDTA shifting the type of blockage people have had in the matrix are remote IMO.
 

Last edited by meirion1; 11-25-2017 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by meirion1 View Post
The chances of 5-10% solution EDTA shifting the type of blockage people have had in the matrix are remote IMO.
Once running EDTA through the system, reverse flushing the lines per Jaguar's instruction is recommended from Workshop manual section 303-03A "Cooling System Backflushing." The solution preps scale and other debris to be removed by the backflushing procedure. If you are attempting to use the EDTA cooling system flush as the only method of repair, you have not properly completed the steps for proper maintenance. From the Workshop manual;

CAUTION: The heater core MUST be backflushed separately from the engine cooling system to prevent the engine cooling system particles from clogging the heater core tubes and reducing (or eliminating) coolant flow through the heater core. All engine cooling system flushing and backflushing procedures must include a separate backflushing of the heater core AFTER the flushing or backflushing of the engine cooling system.
 

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Old 11-28-2017, 12:39 PM
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The seats should heat up in just a few minutes, pres the switch once 3 red lights come on and they should get seriously hot, well for me anyway, wife of course would prefer hers to burst into flames, press the switch again and it goes to 2 lights, and then 1, then off. If none are working, it could be a s simple as a fuse, I don't have my book handy, so have no idea if or where the fuse would be.
 
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:01 PM
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Fraser,

I found a solution for your problem:

Since you are in England, just pop down to your local House of Fraser and pick up one of these:





et voilą, problem solved!




A good English coat to go with a good English car.


Also, since they named the store after you, you might get a decent discount!
 
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:17 PM
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House of Fraser?, He'd be cheaper buying a new Jag, LOL
 
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MrWhite View Post
Fraser,

I found a solution for your problem:

Since you are in England, just pop down to your local House of Fraser and pick up one of these:





et voilą, problem solved!




A good English coat to go with a good English car.


Also, since they named the store after you, you might get a decent discount!
I'm wearing something similar already !

Went to the new Crewe Jaguar dealership yesterday for diagnostic, and prognosis is a new heater matrix is needed. They don't recommend a flush as it may not work so a new matrix would then have to be fitted, and the money on the flush would have been wasted. Their chief technician is a 20 year experience and it therefor familiar with the X350 cars.

PS, like your car ! It looks the same as my previous X350, a 3 litre Sport, which was in Jaguar Racing Green with Ivory leather
 
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:32 AM
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Let me see if I can get this straight, SO.....Spending a couple of hundred quid Flushing out a cooling system and filling it with lovely new fresh coolant and maybe fixing the fault would be wasting money, But ripping the entire interior and dash out of the car and fitting a very expensive new heater matrix. at an astronomical Labour cost, that's what they think is the way to go?
 
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by brian5 View Post
Let me see if I can get this straight, SO.....Spending a couple of hundred quid Flushing out a cooling system and filling it with lovely new fresh coolant and maybe fixing the fault would be wasting money, But ripping the entire interior and dash out of the car and fitting a very expensive new heater matrix. at an astronomical Labour cost, that's what they think is the way to go?
Unless there is evidence of coolant in the evaporator drain tube, (leaking) reverse flushing is always the way to go. Even if there is a new heater core (matrix) installed, if there is particulate matter that clogged it in the first place, it only stands to reason it will end in the same manner as before. Flush with coolant flush, then reverse flush radiator and block, then heater.
 

Last edited by Box; 12-02-2017 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Box View Post
Unless there is evidence of coolant in the evaporator drain tube, (leaking) reverse flushing is always the way to go. Even if there is a new heater core (matrix) installed, if there is particulate matter that clogged it in the first place, it only stands to reason it will end in the same manner as before. Flush with coolant flush, then reverse flush radiator and block, then heater.
+1, you can't know for certain that the heater core is clogged without cutting it open. It's designed in a way the flushing would give the appearance of normal, so you can't trust that. Back flushing is the proper call and 50/50 odds that it will fix the problem. If it doesn't then you're on to an expensive but necessary core replacement.

I don't know what a quid is in U.S. currency, but if I associate it with dollars, $200 bucks isn't going to matter in the scheme of things. Lastly, if the core needs replacing, he will already have a freshly flushed system as you can isolate the heater core by clamping off the hoses in the engine bay. So in theory, money well spent and in the correct order.

The coolant system should be flushed, backflushed every 5 years anyway. (life expectancy of dexcool)
 
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by brian5 View Post
Let me see if I can get this straight, SO.....Spending a couple of hundred quid Flushing out a cooling system and filling it with lovely new fresh coolant and maybe fixing the fault would be wasting money, But ripping the entire interior and dash out of the car and fitting a very expensive new heater matrix. at an astronomical Labour cost, that's what they think is the way to go?
Typical Jag Main Agent ! Get a good indy, doesn't have to be particularly Jaggy, to do the flush and back-wash, I would.
 

Last edited by Partick the Cat; 12-02-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by brian5 View Post
Let me see if I can get this straight, SO.....Spending a couple of hundred quid Flushing out a cooling system and filling it with lovely new fresh coolant and maybe fixing the fault would be wasting money, But ripping the entire interior and dash out of the car and fitting a very expensive new heater matrix. at an astronomical Labour cost, that's what they think is the way to go?
I see the word "maybe" there in terms of fixing the fault.. The fact is if the reverse flush doesn't work the money has to be spent yet again. And, no, it is not necessary on these cars to dismantle the whole dash and interior etc to replace the matrix. The job is done from the glovebox side leaving the heater in position. The parts, labour, and VAT bill quote I have couldn't possibly finance a dash strip down as described. The head technician I have met and spoken with when the car was last in the shop, (for service), is a Jaguar tech of long standing, and knows what he's talking about IMHO. OK, it is an expensive job, but this time I am prepared and going to pay it. Of course I'll let you all know how it went.
 
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:59 PM
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Yes, the job can be done just by removing/lowering the glovebox.
 
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