XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

X350 XF Super V8 Portfolio, rattling sound when starting

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 06:13 AM
  #1  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default X350 XF Super V8 Portfolio, rattling sound when starting

Hi All,
as announced in my introduction post, here’s a bit more about my XJ Super V8 Portfolio, that I bought about three weeks ago. It was listed on the usual websites here for quite a while and I was watching it for about four to five months, before I decided to contact the seller for more information. The car was in south Germany, about 550km away from where I’m located, so I eventually boarded the high speed ICE from Duisburg to Stuttgart, the local train on to Reutlingen and the last half hour per taxi. All in all just under five hours. Negotiations were tough as a few things were immediately obvious, like uneven gaps along the bonnet, painted callipers, a/c working insufficiently etc. I didn’t get the price down to where I wanted, but decided to go for anyway (partly because I had no idea how to get home again - and the seller knew that of course).
After a few kilometres on the road I got an error message (will have to look up what it was), so I googled the nearest workshop and had it checked. The workshop was very professional and well equipped and I was assured that I could continue on my long trip home.
i stopped in Karlsruhe for the night where I met up with an old friend for a nice meal.
Driving on the next day, it also became apparent that the steering wheel was vibrating and I made a note of replacing the tires as soon as I got back, which was already on my to-do list after the visual inspection.
Back home I went to the local garage to have the a/c looked at, which was when we noticed a bad rattling sound when the engine was started. The garage owner immediately suspected bad timing chains/gear so I decided not to drive the car any further to avoid any possible catastrophic failures. It’s been there since, for three weeks now.
I’m writing this from my one-week vacation at the north German coast, and have to finish now as the family wants to go out for the day. More later
 

Last edited by CTDavies; Oct 7, 2023 at 06:15 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 06:25 AM
  #2  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Some pictures





 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 12:41 PM
  #3  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Christ! I’ve just spent two hours writing up a reply here and after I hit the ‚submit reply‘ button it’s all gone!!
 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 01:00 PM
  #4  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

To cut it short:
trunk lid gaps are narrower on the left than right, lid nearly touches the body just above the left rear light. Did car suffer a rear end collision? Paint transition from old to new (=respray?) on c-column is visible when looking closely. Portfolio badge is missing on trunk lid. Were these introduced later or was the lid on my car replaced?
Calipers have been painted gloss black. Replace them or strip them down for re-galvenising?
Steering wheel vibrates at higher than 140km/h get worse to very bad at around 170km/h. I’m hoping new tires will remedy this. Ordered Michelin Pilot Sport.
Engine makes rattling noise when starter is engaged, like rocks in a can. Disconnected s/c drive belt, but spinning s/c by hand in both directions doesn’t doesn’t cause any knocking noises. Are timing chains worn? Will check both - and more.
Inside is stunning, wheels are too with no curb rash.
 

Last edited by CTDavies; Oct 7, 2023 at 01:16 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 01:13 PM
  #5  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Error message was a D0420. Faulty catalytic converter?
The car was sold to me as ‚original German‘ but a CoC is included in the paperwork. Why would they do that if the car was originally sold in Germany by a German dealership?
The VIN is SAJ(=Jaguar) A(=rest of world) A(=Auto transmission, LHD) 86(=LWB 4 Door 4 Seat VDP SV8). Is it really a Portfolio? It certainly has all(!) the features of one.
 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 02:09 PM
  #6  
Pete M's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 517
Likes: 243
From: Oxford, South Island, New Zealand
Default

Originally Posted by CTDavies
Error message was a D0420. Faulty catalytic converter?
The car was sold to me as ‚original German‘ but a CoC is included in the paperwork. Why would they do that if the car was originally sold in Germany by a German dealership?
The VIN is SAJ(=Jaguar) A(=rest of world) A(=Auto transmission, LHD) 86(=LWB 4 Door 4 Seat VDP SV8). Is it really a Portfolio? It certainly has all(!) the features of one.
Hi CT
Initially Portfolios were given the same VIN code as Super V8s. Later, however separate codes were introduced for them, but are only usually seen on X358s.
Your rattling sound on startup is most likely to be worn VVT housings. This is a known issue, and the sound is of the VVT mechanism rattling until oil pressure activates it.
Generally the wood in Portfolios is Satin American Walnut. I'd be suspicious if it isn't. It was possible to order a Super V8 in 4 seat configuration, but there are several features that should identify a Portfolio. I'm sure others with more knowledge will contribute shortly.

Pete M

VIN codes up to 2009
 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 02:46 PM
  #7  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Hi Pete M,
thanks for tuning in and thanks especially for the information on faulty VVT housings. Is that an expensive fix? I will definitely have to read into that.

Yes, the wood in my car looks like satin walnut, not the high gloss polished wood you see in other cars. Other Portfolio features are
- LWB
- Black Cherry colour
- mesh grill
- Aluminium side vents
- tinted sunroof
​​​​​​- DVD screens in headrests
- stereo control in rear centre armrest
- tray tables
- individual electric rear seats
- plush leather (conker colour)
- Aluminium J-Gate surround
- four way a/c
- satin wood trim
- etc, etc

Originally Posted by Pete M
Hi CT
Initially Portfolios were given the same VIN code as Super V8s. Later, however separate codes were introduced for them, but are only usually seen on X358s.
Your rattling sound on startup is most likely to be worn VVT housings. This is a known issue, and the sound is of the VVT mechanism rattling until oil pressure activates it.
Generally the wood in Portfolios is Satin American Walnut. I'd be suspicious if it isn't. It was possible to order a Super V8 in 4 seat configuration, but there are several features that should identify a Portfolio. I'm sure others with more knowledge will contribute shortly.

Pete M

VIN codes up to 2009
 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 03:50 PM
  #8  
Thomas-S.'s Avatar
Senior Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 990
Likes: 466
From: Nuremberg
Default

Quote:
Yes, the wood in my car looks like satin walnut, not the high gloss polished wood you see in other cars. Other Portfolio features are
- LWB
- Black Cherry colour
- mesh grill
- Aluminium side vents
- tinted sunroof
​​​​​​- DVD screens in headrests
- stereo control in rear centre armrest
- tray tables
- individual electric rear seats
- plush leather (conker colour)
- Aluminium J-Gate surround
- four way a/c
- satin wood trim
- etc, etc
Unquote

Hi Chris,
welcome to the Jaguar world!
As far as I know, Portfolios are actually quite rare here in Germany. The fact that the car came with a CoC is not an indicator that the car is not an original German car, it is actually standard to be included with the delivery of a new car.

Out of the options that you list above, I would say that the satin wood trim, the Black Cherry colour and the Aluminium J-Gate surround are indicators of the Portfolio, maybe also the conker colour of the leather interior. The other options were available for the "normal" Super V8, as well.
I know that some people retrofitted the side vents, but it could be that in 2006 they standard for the Portfolio only. I normally associate the side vents with the X358 only.
I hope that you will be able to resolve your problems. Regarding the fault code, I would suggest that you get a code reader that can read the Jaguar codes, like an iCarsoft, for example. The fault code you mention could be a faulty catalytic converter, but not necessarily so. The Jaguar fault code would start with a "P".

Best regards,

Thomas
typing error
 

Last edited by Thomas-S.; Oct 7, 2023 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Typing error
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 03:52 PM
  #9  
NBCat's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,067
Likes: 2,982
From: Newport Beach, California
Default

If the repair shop has not already done so, have them remove the supercharger and accessory drive belts prior to starting the engine. This will allow a more accurate diagnosis for the source of the rattling noise.

The supercharger snout coupling can also make a rattling sound on start up and shut down.

Perhaps I missed this in one of your posts, but how many kilometres are showing on the instrument cluster?
 
Reply
Old Oct 7, 2023 | 09:17 PM
  #10  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Originally Posted by NBCat
Perhaps I missed this in one of your posts, but how many kilometres are showing on the instrument cluster?
180.000km
 
Reply
Old Oct 8, 2023 | 03:22 PM
  #11  
Petz's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 581
Likes: 135
From: KEHLEN , LUXEMBOURG
Default

The port folio side vents should be funtional not a fake side vent
 
Reply
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 12:02 PM
  #12  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Being back from my one-week vacation I was able to stop by at the garage to see if any progress was made. The lid had been taken off of the supercharger and this is what we found:


 

Last edited by CTDavies; Oct 9, 2023 at 12:12 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 12:10 PM
  #13  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

The cylinder heads had also been removed and I was told that the chains are also loose and need to be looked at



 
Reply
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 12:14 PM
  #14  
NBCat's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,067
Likes: 2,982
From: Newport Beach, California
Default

The primary timing chain on the AJ33/AJ34 has not typically been a problem area. When the shop says the chains are 'loose' are they describing the secondary timing chains driving the exhaust camshafts?

It's not possible to tell from the photos the condition of the secondary timing chains or tensioners. I have seen the secondary timing chain tensioners fail on the AJ34.
 
Reply
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 12:26 PM
  #15  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

Originally Posted by NBCat
The primary timing chain on the AJ33/AJ34 has not typically been a problem area. When the shop says the chains are 'loose' are they describing the secondary timing chains driving the exhaust camshafts?

It's not possible to tell from the photos the condition of the secondary timing chains or tensioners. I have seen the secondary timing chain tensioners fail on the AJ34.
He was specifically talking about the chain held by the yellow tensioner. I think I'll have them all looked at just to be on the safe side. As I said this afternoon, this should be the last car I have bought in this life so it needs to be reliable for at least the next 40 years. I am now 63 years old )
 
Reply
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 02:18 PM
  #16  
Thomas-S.'s Avatar
Senior Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 990
Likes: 466
From: Nuremberg
Default

The surface of the supercharger blades should be all black, it looks like the coating is dissolving. As far as I know,the coating can be redone by specialist companies.

This is how the supercharger of my car looked like with about 177,000 km on the clock.




Also, if the workshop is already dismantling so much of the engine, have them replace the so called valley hose. This hose runs underneath the supercharger and goes from the thermostat housing to the throttle body.

Best regards,

Thomas
 
Reply
Old Oct 15, 2023 | 03:40 PM
  #17  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

The damaged supercharger was packed and shipped to XK8 Store in Austria yesterday for a complete overhaul. As Christopher said at XK8 Store the rotors will be sent to the US for re-coating. In all I was told to expect two months for the whole deal.
@Thomas-S. we'll also replace the valley hose.
As has been mentioned before: disconnecting the s/c drive belt didn't stop the rattling noise. The mechanic thinks the timing chains might be rubbing against the housing due to loose/worn tensioners. This would mean opening the entire front end. I will keep you updated.
 
Reply
Old Oct 16, 2023 | 03:55 AM
  #18  
EsRay's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,302
Likes: 218
From: Dubai
Default

I agree with Pete M (see post #6). I have had a loud 5 second 'rattle' at start-up (and at start-up only), ever since I bought my car 6 years ago; mine is definitely my VVT waiting for sufficient oil pressure to engage its locking pin. Surely, a loose chain tensioner would rattle all the time?
 
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2023 | 10:53 AM
  #19  
CTDavies's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Liked
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 22
Likes: 8
From: Weeze
Default

I got my Heritage Certificate today and I'm happy to says that it shows my XJ SV8 as a Portfolio.
I'm chuffed to bits. )
 
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2023 | 04:37 PM
  #20  
meirion1's Avatar
Veteran Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,145
Likes: 804
From: The beautiful Mornington Peninsula in OZ
Default

Well done now you can look forward to rising values for the next 40 years!
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 AM.