Hi guys
I'm brand new to both the forum and to Jaguar ownership and I could really do with some help. I have introduced myself in the new members area and Graham GGG suggested I post my problem here. So here goes...........I was driving the car home from the dealer's on it's maiden voyage of 180 miles. I got to within a mile of home and the low oil pressure warning came on for a few seconds and then went off again. I was cruising at about 60-70mph and I lifted off and watched to see if it would come on again but after about 1/4 of a mile there was a nasty mechanical clatter from the engine bay and the engine stopped.
I coasted to a halt and examined the dash for clues. I turned the ignition off and selected park. On turning the key to PII the display 1st said the engine had stalled followed by a message for reduced performance mode. Both the oil light and the battery light are permanently on and the engine would not turn over.
I got the car recovered the final mile to my house and am not quite sure what to do next. My initial though was that either one of the primary or secondary hydraulic cam chain tensioners had collapsed hence the drop in oil pressure and the clatter noise followed by cam phasing going out of sync causing valve to piston contact locking the engine solid.
The engine was not excessively hot and the dipstick showed the correct level of nice clean oil.
I've just popped the cam covers off to take a peek and all four of the tensioners look fine and the chains look tight and intact.
I'm confused to say the least so could really do with some input from you guys with your vast wealth of experience of this britsh marvel of engineering.
Any ideas what in hell is happening ?

 

What are the consumer protection laws in your part of the world. I know it is an old car, but the law might state that a vehicle must last longer than the drive home. If you contact the dealer, he might offer a solution. Sounds negative, but from your description of the problem, it is going to be expensive to fix. If the above is not successful, then you may need to call a mechanic who knows jaguars.

 

Hi Guys
I think I've found the problem. One of the cams on the left bank has lost timing. Thanks to Ausie Grant Francis for the heads up on the stupidly designed crush bolt fixing with no woodruff key. Looking at the camshaft flats on the right bank both shafts are perfectly in phase but not so on the left bank! You can see the flat on the right hand shaft but the flat on it's pertner is conspicuously absent. It would appear that the sprocket has slipped and the valves and pistons have got a little intimate and, as Grant says, "done obscene things to each other"


out of phase camshafts


Does any one know where I can hire the cam locking tools so I can attempt a rebuild?

 

Please watch and consider.

 

The problem with the camshafts on Bank1, which is the RH side of the engine when viewed from the driver's position as shown in your photo, is that the secondary chain has become loose due to the tensioner failing and has resulted in the change in timing. The design is not suspect as many manufacturers, the Germans included, use gears without key ways for the camshafts.

If the exhaust valves have indeed 'done obscene things with the pistons', the head must be removed and the bent valves replaced. The remainder of the primary and Bank2 secondary timing chains and tensioners must be replaced as well whilst the engine is disassembled.

Unless you are competent with such work, it is best trusted to a Jaguar specialist so any cylinder head damage can be repaired and the cam timing correctly set. Should you decide to embark on the work yourself, there are many sources, including eBay, for obtaining the correct timing tool set. It is also helpful to download the JTIS Workshop Manual and have a thorough read.

 

If that's Ludlow, England and you bought from a trader/dealer you can just get your money back as faults such as that within 6 months of buying render the car of unsatisfactory quality / not fit for purpose - so long as YOU are not a trade buyer. Do not attempt a repair or you may lose your consumer rights.

You can also claim associated costs such as fuel.

 

as per last comment.....if you are in UK then deal with the dealer who sold it to you..... used car dealers are squirmy people at the best of times I know....but that's your first call....followed by letter to them from solicitors if no joy and off to small claims court if they continue to refuse a refund (coz you can bet they know what the cost of the prob is and wont offer to repair it)


Other than that you are in for a whole lot of repair work on the tensioners and to strip the heads in hope you only have bent valves....piston damage may be possible also and so on and so forth....alternatively if you were going to bite a bullet you might want to consider a second hand engine.....at least you could check it for old tensioners when you bought it and were that the case do the tensioner job with engine on a bench.....got to be easier than unknown quantity of in car jobbie

 

Hi guys
Here is an update on my dead on arrival 3.2 - I've slowly been taking her apart to examine the parts and to find the extent of the damage. So far I have been very impressed with the general quality of design and manufacture. It appears that NBCat was correct - the secondary tensioner has failed causing the exhaust cam to jump a few teeth.



I've removed the exhuast cam but the engine is still locked solid. Next move is to remove the front pully, timing cover and primary chain to allow me get the inlet cam off so I can get the head removed. I've removed the inlet manifold in preparation - does anyone know if I need to remove the exhaust manifold or can I just detach it from the downpipe and lift the head with the manifold still attached?

 

If you have not done so already, I strongly encourage you to download and review the procedures for the work outlined in the JTIS Workshop Manual.

Under no circumstances is the engine to be rotated in an anti clock direction when viewed from the front.

The engine may not be able to rotate due to broken primary timing chain guides or tensioners, or if a valve has broken and become wedged between the piston crown and the head. It may be easier to remove the exhaust manifold along with the cylinder head.

The correct tools must be used to correctly set the cam timing during reassembly.

 

This doesn't cover you head work but is the best 'how to' for doing the tensioners I have come across......exceptionally detailed

chain and tensioner replacement


http://jaguar.blackonyx.net/tech/timingchain.htm

 

I have just had the heads off mine; you can remove them with the manifolds attached. If you are going to replace the lower tensioners and chains, be careful undoing the seemingly large bolts holding the chain guides, as the threaded part is very small. I managed to break one of mine, and replacements don't seem to be available. You can buy a complete kit of chains and guides for about $700;I think it comes with front gaskets. You will need a top overhaul gasket set too, the 3.2 and 4.0 are the same. Replace the heater hoses which run under the inlet manifold. Replace the plastic thermostat housing with an aluminium version.
Change the thermostat and water pump at same time.
Good luck

 

Hi Guys
The tools arived yesterday from Ken at Carlton Autos so today I continued phase II of the strip-down. I had a little difficulty removing the front pulley/damper at first. The threads on the cap head bolts suppled with the puller only protruded about 6-7mm and so only engaged in the 1st few threads of the pulley holes, on the 1st attempt one pulled out stripping the threads.

Rear of pully showing short bolts

I ran an 8 x 1.25mm tap through the rusty cast iron holes to clean them up and used two new fully threaded 75mm bolts with nuts under the heads to control the installed length. I screwed them fully through the pulley until they bottomed out on the front cover then backed them off a turn and locked them off with the nuts.


Pulley tool showing adjustable length bolts

Pulley came off quite easily on 2nd attempt (phew). Removed the rest of the timing gear and inlet cam on bank 1 and then lifted the head to inspect the damage. The exhaust valves on cylinders 1 and 3 were badly bent as expected. There are witness marks on both pistons showing the point of contact but no dents or cracks. Now this is where it gets a bit weird - the engine is still locked solid! I refitted the front pulley and tried to turn the engine to TDC so I could install the crank locator and lock off the cams on bank 2 ready to replace the chains and tensioners on that side but the crank will not budge. Both the cams on bank 2 are approaching TDC. The exposed piston on cylinder 3, bank 1, is also nearly at TDC.


Head off showing witness marks

All the four pistons on bank 1 seem mobile in their bores (ie not siezed) but the enginge is locked solid.
Does anyone have any ideas what the **** is happening?

 

Why didnt you demand your money back?

 

Have you still got the chains connected on bank2, so a piston isn't hitting a valve; I couldn't tell from your description. Pull the plugs out of bank 2, just on the off chance you have hydraulic lock. You could pull the bottom of the sump off, about 15 little bolts and the gasket is inexpensive. Might be able to see if there is something locking the crankshaft. The sump on mine had a lot of sludge. Just for info, the crank locater locks the engine at 75 degrees before TDC; I don't know why, put it down to crazy jag engineers. If you haven't purchased head gaskets yet, the later model 4.2 gaskets are much better than originals, and fit ok.

 

I have got half the sump bolts off at the moment will get back to you later

 

Thanks Fredd60
Yes the chains are still on bank 2, as both the cams look in phase I'm pretty sure all is well on this side of the engine. Both the chains have a little play and are not stretched tight. I've removed the plugs and everything looks OK. I've also dropped the sump but it is impossible to see anything due to the anti-slosh splash plates/baffles. The good news, if there is any, is that there is no debris or huge chunks of metal in the oil pan.
I can't imagine what could be causing the crank to be locked solid. There is no real evidence af total carnage. Is it possible a con-rod is bent or snapped? Surely something would be moving at least a little bit to give me a clue. Is it possible for a piston to be tilted and locked in it's bore? Does anybody know if the starter can cause a lock like this?

 

I really admire your tenacity (sp?) Stuart. You deserve better than this. I wish I had an answer. It looks like the only thing to do is dig deeper. In for a penny ...

 

From your description of the Bank2 primary and secondary timing chains, you may need to remove the Bank2 cylinder head as well.

It is possible for the starter to be stuck engaged with the flex plate, but that is highly unlikely. Since the starter is now accessible, it could be removed to eliminate that possibility.

 

OK Guys
I've disconnected the starter motor and the crank is still locked. I'm convinced there is nothing wrong with bank 2 as I can turn the cam sprocket and the cam moves until the chain gets tight. On the other hand if I try to turn the crank nothing moves and the chain stays slack. The initial problem was clearly the secondary tensioner failing on bank 1 causing the exhaust cam sprocket to jump quite a few teeth ending up nearly 90deg out of phase. On bank 2 both cams are still in sync as both the locking flats are visible at about the one-o-clock position. It is my assumption that one of the con-rods on bank 1 has snapped and the big end cap or the broken rod has somehow locked against the crankcase. The piston and other end of the rod may have dropped in the bore and may be wedged in the crankcase. This is all hypothetical and I guess we won't find the real reason untill the engine is out on the bench. At this point I am physically and emotionally drained and am calling Time of Death at 18:35
So I now have three courses of action: 1 - Contact the seller and get them to collect the vehicle and issue a full refund plus expenses. or 2 - Obtain a replacement short engine and fit it with my re-furbished heads (bought last week in preparation) and my new mk4 tensioners and chains. or 3 - just buy a low mileage engine and retro-fit my new mk4 tensioners and chains and send my heads back for a refund.

 

Although entirely not my business, I also really wonder how you still have option 1 on the table.

I was trying to return a 3 dollar electric cable to the shop, unopened, with receipt, bought 3 days ago, and only got it done after 5 minutes of arguments.
How the heck are you goning to claim and return this car, even if you probably have a receipt as well ?

Besides of that, I am following your thread with interest, and wish you good luck.