XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

Jerky shifting? zf 5hp24

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 4, 2013 | 10:50 PM
  #1  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default Jerky shifting? zf 5hp24

I feel wierd jerks from my transmission between 20 and 30 mph. If I accelerate deathly slow, I wont feel a thing. During more brisk driving I feel a small jerk, then the RPMS climb like crazy as though it is not in gear, then it grabs gear and jerks me hard since the RPMs are up. Its like its trying to make the 2-3 shift and taking too long to do it. Does anyone know what these symptoms point towards? I am to the point where I almost want to drop the valve body and clean all the valves and solenoids. I have a good spare trans around that nobody has bought from me yet, but I would much rather keep my upgraded A-drum trans in the car. Are these the symptoms of an o-ring broken from the bad bearing between the C&D drums or wherever it is? If so, I would totally tear into this again to fix it. I just want to know what I am after. Could this be a TPS issue? I didnt have any of these symptoms until after the car sat for 2-3 months and then I installed a used engine from my 01. Btw, there are no errors, codes, or MIL. Thanks in advance.
-Rob
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2013 | 01:10 AM
  #2  
dsnyder586's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,134
Likes: 542
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Default

Fluid level maybe?
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2013 | 06:37 AM
  #3  
RJ237's Avatar
Veteran Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,834
Likes: 2,924
From: Douglasville Ga.
Default

Fluid level is a strong possibility, and valve problems also. Do a search on trans. valve replacement to see if the symptoms sound relevant.
 
Reply
Old Jan 8, 2013 | 03:09 PM
  #4  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

The more I think about it, yes all the symptoms are there for low ATF level. I feel stupid for even asking wheb it is something so obvious! Thank you all for the quick replies! It's very annoying that there is no dipstick on these cars, but I picked up 3 qts of Mobil 1 to top it off with! Tonight I shall be shifting with ease again!
 
Reply
Old Jan 8, 2013 | 04:25 PM
  #5  
danielsand's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 856
Likes: 283
From: SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by ixj8it
The more I think about it, yes all the symptoms are there for low ATF level. I feel stupid for even asking wheb it is something so obvious! Thank you all for the quick replies! It's very annoying that there is no dipstick on these cars, but I picked up 3 qts of Mobil 1 to top it off with! Tonight I shall be shifting with ease again!
These new geniuses that are engineering these cars, are really irking me off! Why in the world we don't have a dipstick tube!? Why? To save few cents on a 80K car? To save couple of ounces of weight? That's just stupid. Beyond stupid.

Imagine how nice it would be to suck everything out through the tube, drop the pan without the mess, change the filter, torque the pan, and refill from the TOP!
 
Reply
Old Jan 12, 2013 | 10:52 PM
  #6  
Too Good To Be True's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 27
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Default

I have a similar symptom but it only happens once in the morning when I first drive off when cold. The car shifts normally from 1st to 2nd, but takes an extended time to shift from 2nd to 3rd. When I mentioned this to the dealer, they only do a fluid drain, filter change and fluid fill. They don't do top offs. I have 99K miles on it and don't have the history of previous drains from the prior owner. From what I have been researching about fluid changes at 100K plus miles, it can be a gamble. Another tech who works on European cars said he examines the fluid first to determine how much fluid to remove. In most instances, he removes only 50% of the fluid and sometime less depending on the color.

I'd rather to a top off but understand that it should be done with the car running and since I have no lift, just jack stands, it could be uncomfortable.

Any recommendations?
 
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2013 | 04:48 AM
  #7  
Highway Star's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 199
Likes: 40
From: Wesseling
Default

Do you have the opportunity to rent a workshop place? Maybe one with a car lift?
 
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2013 | 11:54 PM
  #8  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

Well you guys, I topped off the fluid with Mobil 1 synthetic again, just like I used 20-30K ago when I did the A drum. FWIW, I think they do the cascade overflow fill tube thing so hillbillies wont go to autozone and buy mercon-dexron III, type F, or whatever other incorrect fluid and overfill their trans. I hate it, but its something I'm getting used to seeing at my shop.

Anyway, it only took about a half quart, looks like I have some very light seepage at the TC seal area, unless its the engine rear main seal leaking. Anyway, I gave it some very spirited driving right after filling with fluid since my issues happen with more than light throttle, and during this 1-2 mile drive it tossed a gearbox fault. I am having zero luck retrieving the codes.

If I could get the code, I would check out the VB before dropping the trans. I would so much rather drop a VB and clean it than doing the 01 trans swap. If there is anyone kinda close who has a full-on european scanner who is interested, let me know. Unfortunately, I am fully set up on domestic and asian cars with my old school mt2500, but we never bought euro subscription because we would never use it. It has worked for me in the past getting the codes pointing towards A drum, but there is no MIL this time, only gearbox fault message. Is it worth my time to drive this to a Euro shop in waco and pay them just to scan the TCM and give me a memory code? It drives fine on restart, but trip the gearbox fault and its 5th gear failsafe all the way. Are there any enthusiasts in the area who are more than just generic obd2 capable? I would have already been yanking the trans today, but I need to source a tailhousing gasket since the new trans tail is cracked from accident, plus my lift is busy with a 03 tacoma trans job right now. Thanks in advance! Any help or good advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2013 | 10:37 AM
  #9  
burmaz's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 598
Likes: 52
From: Mass.
Default

FWIW, my car had a similar issue with a single HARD 1-2nd gear shift in the morning that occurred every morning, and was worse when it was cold outside. After the hard shift, it would have random slow and hard shifts on light throttle, while the shifts were smooth under full throttle. I had no codes. Months later, my MAF randomly failed causing misfires, and when I replaced it, the single HARD morning shift went away, and shifting improved overall (not quite 100% though). My fluid level was fine. Btw, my transmission's A drum was repaired about 4 yrs ago after a trans failure.
 
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2013 | 05:04 PM
  #10  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

I wish the ECM could tell me what codes are in the TCM causing my intermittent gearbox fault, it does quite nicely on very light throttle. I dont wanna pull the trans
 
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2013 | 08:01 PM
  #11  
dsnyder586's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,134
Likes: 542
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Default

Is the battery new? I know we are looking at mechanical issues but...
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2013 | 08:10 AM
  #12  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

It was new back in 09 sometime. Never fails to start though.

Tightened the loose positive battery connection today although its been starting great! At luikarts in Waco now getting the tcm scanned.
 

Last edited by ixj8it; Jan 17, 2013 at 03:31 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 24, 2013 | 07:53 PM
  #13  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

Well, swapped in the trans from my 01. This thing had the easiest tailhousing to swap that I have ever seen. Unhook the 10 bolts, lightly tap the tail and it slides out, torque bolts back to 18 ftlbs. It had a big o-ring seal rather than paper gasket! Excellent! The trans in the 01 looked very shiny and did not have the VIN number on the LH rear of the trans. I suspect it has been replaced recently. The fluid inside was a beautiful red color and I topped off with 3 qts of mobil 1. It shifts like a dream Now to swap rear axles from the other car and get this thing sold.
 
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2013 | 05:10 AM
  #14  
Too Good To Be True's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 27
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Default

Originally Posted by Highway Star
Do you have the opportunity to rent a workshop place? Maybe one with a car lift?
Well I have a tire shop I can go to to do certain things. I am considering on draining a quart or two and replacing it with new fluid from the dealer. I am really hesitant about draining all the fluid since it's got 99K miles on it. I guess I will examine the color of the fluid when I drain off a bit.
 
Reply
Old Jan 25, 2013 | 05:11 AM
  #15  
Too Good To Be True's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 27
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Default

Originally Posted by ixj8it
Well, swapped in the trans from my 01. This thing had the easiest tailhousing to swap that I have ever seen. Unhook the 10 bolts, lightly tap the tail and it slides out, torque bolts back to 18 ftlbs. It had a big o-ring seal rather than paper gasket! Excellent! The trans in the 01 looked very shiny and did not have the VIN number on the LH rear of the trans. I suspect it has been replaced recently. The fluid inside was a beautiful red color and I topped off with 3 qts of mobil 1. It shifts like a dream Now to swap rear axles from the other car and get this thing sold.
Do you mean you used Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil? Not a trans fluid?
 
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2013 | 06:06 AM
  #16  
Highway Star's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 199
Likes: 40
From: Wesseling
Default

This morning I got my Daimler back from 96.000 km (60,000 miles) service. At this occasion the transmission fluid has been replaced, too. It's got 6 litres of new LT71141.

And it paid. Though there were no problems with shifting gears the tranny now shifts perceptibly smoother than before.

To be on the safe side you could follow the same path. Drain all transmission fluid, clean the pan, replace the filter and grant the tranny genuine AT fluid that meets or exceeds the LT71141 specs.
 
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2013 | 06:13 AM
  #17  
flay's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 365
Likes: 71
From: Romania
Default

The Daimler isn't supercharged, with Mercedes gearbox?
 
Reply
Old Jan 26, 2013 | 06:39 AM
  #18  
Highway Star's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 199
Likes: 40
From: Wesseling
Default

No, it's a naturally aspired Daimler V8. No "Super" in the name though it really is!

You made a good point, flay. Reviewing the thread we can't tell if Too Good To Be True's XJ is supercharged and has the MB gearbox or if it's naturally aspired and has the ZF box.

My recommendation obviously applies to the ZF tranny.
 
Reply
Old Apr 4, 2013 | 03:55 PM
  #19  
aldol's Avatar
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 84
Likes: 14
From: st petersburg, fl
Default

i struggled with hard shifting from forst to second gear for 2 months,kept adding additives.
then i read that too high fluid level may cause hard shifting.
sucked out 2 quarts of fluids and it seems to have solved the problem ENTIRELY

well, i was wrong
today shifting out of first gear is hard again
i am going to try messing with the tps
 

Last edited by aldol; Apr 4, 2013 at 08:31 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 5, 2013 | 12:21 PM
  #20  
ixj8it's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 556
Likes: 46
From: TEXAS
Default

do the x300s also have the xf 5hp24?
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 PM.