Like I said,....I am not here to argue. You do whatever you please, but please don't tell me that after 15 years in business, I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know what kind of business you are in, but I am sure you know more about it than I care to learn.

I never said that addittives help the gas mileage DIRECTLY. But they do in the long term (indirectly) by keeping the injectors clean, promoting cleaner combustion (no piston deposits), and cleaner valves. If the combustion is cleaner (more complete), more gas is utilized (burned), which will produce the movement of the car, right? If some gas is unburned (flushed out the exhaust manifold), that WILL have the effect on the mileage, right?

"Public outcry" over "damaged" vehicles!? There IS NO damage,....just more maintenance (injectors, fuel filters, catalitic converters etc.), and the public DOES NOT care (or know the difference!). Bottom line my friend,....if you pump QUALITY BRANDED gas, you will have to replace your injectors (or buy the injector cleaners), fuel filters, fuel lines, check valves, cat's, etc....LESS FREQUENTLY, than if you pump junk fuel. If you change the cars every couple of years,....who cares! If you plan to keep the vehicle FOREVER (like I plan with my VDP), you want these items to last LONGER. My S 430 I probably won't keep, but I still give it the best feed money can buy,...why? Because I can, and it makes ME feel good.

And another point,.....I have NO CLUE how the things are done in Canada. All my statements pertain to California ONLY, where I was doing business in this industry until 2010. My stations pumped over 8 Million gallons a year (combined), and I have awards on my desk as I type this, for pumping more than 4 Million a year for each brand. That's over 120 million gallons for the entire time I was a "reseller" (the industry term to depict the station owner that owns the land, the structure, equipment, and has a contract with a major brand to distribute, as opposed to "leased sites", or "company owned sites") for these two brands. That's a LOT of gasoline, wouldn't you agree? I also have MANY friends that are still in business, and one of them owns 21 sites. Ask ANY station owner about what I typed here, and they will confirm what I posted.

My VDP "likes" Mobil gas for some reason. I don't care why, or what's going on in the engine (Nicasil BTW!), but the gas mileage is slightly better with Mobil Premium gas. Not enough difference to make me buy exclusively Mobil (I use them all, BUT branded, "major" gas only!). 10 cents a gallon "savings", translate to about two bucks less to pay at the station, every time I fill up. To ME,...that's such a small amount of money, that it's not worth talking about. I give 10 bucks to the homeless girl on the I-10 ramp every time I see her! And you don't want to know how much I give to church, and other charities every year.

I will never pump any unbranded gasoline in my bikes, cars, trucks, or the ranch equipment, and I made this decision based on what I learned in the gasoline business.

To each his own.

Over and out.

 

The short version is that Rosie O'Donnell and Gisele Bundchen are both women.

Mikey thinks Rosie is just fine.

Personally ... I'd take Gisele even if she stretches my wallet a bit

 

I LOVED both of your posts! I laughed at your apple pie comparison (SO true!), and your stomach WILL tell you right away. Engines CAN be compared with digestive systems!

Gisele WILL empty your wallet,....but what a ride! I wouldn't fill my tank for free at some sites, and if Rosie and I would be on the proverbial deserted island,......I'd "come out of the closet"!!! LOL!

 

She has more money than me ... so maybe she'll pick up the tab for the *good* apple pie

 

MTBE has not been legal for quite some time. I specifically mentioned NOT comparing E10 to pure gas for obvious reasons.

Each and every post I write is composed knowing full well that you're going to do your best to pick apart everything I say. I'm not silly enough to leave the door open on a simple point like this.

Please point me to some examples. Yes I know some people moan about E10. That's fine, but ethanol content is not the subject of discussion here. Show me some examples of people that filled up at Costco and subsequently experienced documented problems. I'll show you an equal number of people that filled up at YOUR favourite brand and experienced problems.

And how did you come to acquire such specific information?

Do you like many others incorrectly believe that Costco has a custom made blend that they themselves concocted and deliberately chose to 'go cheap'? How or why would they do this? Or is it just possible and more logical that they just specify an off the shelf additive package that's equivalent to the major refiners?

You're constantly taking my posts to task. How about you putting up some proof yourself this time?

 

Daniel-

Where are all these vehicles that need more frequent repair? Most cars go to the junkyard with their original injectors, converters, fuel lines etc etc. Fuel filters might get changed now and then by some conscientious owners, many more just don't bother. Where are all the cars falling dead on the roadside? Did any of them NOT get the rated interval out of their filters?

I can appreciate that you went to school and they taught you that the off brand guys are all bad. The allegations on the table are that Costco etc. do not use a quality additive package and do not maintain their pumps properly.

Here's what the Costco gasoline website has to say about it:

Costco Gasoline



"Since 1995, all gasoline sold in the U.S. must include an EPA-approved detergent additive. All Costco gas has always contained these additives. Costco gas stations are well maintained and our fuel has always been 100% guaranteed.

Increasing Federal emissions and mileage requirements, plus the competitive pressures of the automotive marketplace, have led to improved and more complicated engine designs. These improvements make many engines more sensitive to carbon deposits on intake valves and clogged fuel injectors.

Dirty engines can sometimes trigger a"check engine" dashboard warning light. Many of the latest model vehicles perform better using fuel that contains more than the minimum EPA detergent requirement.
As our valued member, you expect Costco to always offer the finest quality products at the best possible price. Gasoline is no exception. Costco has closely studied fuel additives and engine deposits, and conducted extensive fuel tests at nationally-recognized laboratories.

As a result, we decided to increase the detergent additives in our fuel to provide a better value to our members. Cleaner engines run better, run longer, and they pollute less.

Costco gas with Kirkland Signature Clean Power detergent additives contains five times the EPA detergent requirement.

Clean Power doesn't just keep your engine clean - it also helps remove any existing deposits. Costco Gasoline - Something good just got better!"


So-are they lying? How does this compare to the gasoline that you endorse? Is your gas five times higher? More? less? How about the other major brands that people here are touting as 'better'?

Here's more from their FAQs:

"Q: How does Costco assure their gasoline is high quality?
A: Since gasoline formulations are specified by government standards, base gasoline is a fungible commodity with little difference between brands.

There are two aspects of fuel quality that depend on the gasoline brand and the individual retailer: detergent additives and station maintenance.

Detergent additives
Since 1995, Federal regulations mandate that all gasoline contain an EPA-approved detergent additive. These additives are designed to minimize engine deposits that can affect vehicle performance and emissions. The various proprietary detergent additive formulations are the main difference between brands of gasoline. All Costco gasoline, both regular and premium unleaded, contains detergent additives.

Station Maintenance
Good station operation and maintenance assures the fuel is filtered, and that no contaminants, such as sediment and water, find their way into our members' vehicles. Costco gas stations are well-maintained by our capable attendants so that only clean gasoline goes into your car.

• Costco uses fuel filters to catch any particles or debris larger than 10 microns in diameter. For comparison, the average human hair is seventy microns thick.
• Our attendants check the nozzle flow rate frequently to assure that our filters are fresh. When the flow rate falls below 8 gallons per minute, we change the filter.
• Costco uses ethanol-compatible filters designed to catch sediment, water, or phase-separated ethanol and water mixtures.
• Costco's electronic sensors continuously monitor our underground storage tanks for water.
• We physically sample our tanks at least weekly to confirm there is no contamination by both visual inspection and chemical detection."

So much for allegations that they don't use filters and have dirty tanks. Or are they lying again?

My takeaway on this is California is even weirder than I thought. No harm no foul. You and Plums should get together and enjoy your apple pies. The two of you make a good pair

 

No offence Mikey, but are you employed by Costco, or you just drink Costco Coolaid?

A friend of mine (a cop) is a "Costco Diehard" like you. That guy wears Costco clothes (I buy mine at the stores that don't sell car batteries!), eats Costco food, and (you guessed it!) ...drives on Costco gas (his Boxter!).

Believe what you want Mikey (you obviously believe that Costco is sooo honest, that they would put on their own website that they run 30 micron filters, and the management doesn't give a damn, if that would be the truth). And if it's that important to you, I'll say it...."I am full of crap, and I don't know what I'm talking about, when it comes to US sold gasoline."

And if you want the forum approval and admiration, go dig up some INDEPENDENT studies (I will not waste my time just to prove you wrong, unlike yourself), and post them here. I did not post any links to any major gas companies websites.

I've never been to your beautifull country, but I've heard that you are some hard headed people. YOU are right, and all of us down here are full of crap.

Have a nice day.

 

Since I don't go to Costco (for any reason!), I don't really give a darn about their gas. What I do give a hoot about is the fact (and it IS a fact) that certain brands have better or more additives than the cheaper brands, as a general rule. Thus, I will continue to pay a little bit more for the brands that I perceive as better. You guys can debate Costco vs. The World all day long and it won't matter to most people.

 

So I guess this is the pot calling the kettle black.

You've obviously been drinking your own Koolaid for long enough, believing everything to the point that everyone else must be lying. You've simply repeated all the massively popular beaten-to-death allegations against something, but cannot show one bit of evidence to prove your point. Not only that, but you avoid any of the questions I asked about your own product and resort to personal attack and insult instead. I find that strange and suspicious- but very informative in it's own right.

Why does Costco specifically mention all of the above on their website? Pretty obvious (to me). There's a lot of people drinking the apple flavoured California Koolaid.

BTW- it's a 10 micron filter, not 30 as you stated. Hmmmm.

Are you sure you're actually you're who and what you claim and not the other 'Daniel' that got booted off here some years ago for being a troll? I see a lot in common.

 

Wow just checking this thread this morning. Seems my question has a few people on edge.

Since my 98 jag is new to me, my only thought in asking was to see if anyone really had made changes and had seen increases in mpg and horsepower. What I have heard so far correct me if I am wrong:

1) K&N is all hype and does nothing for your car ( fantastic already spent the money )
2) higher octane gas also does nothing vs. some engines prefer it and owners here feel for the little extra spent will be worth it in the long term along with the peace of mind and insurance it brings
3) Apple pie is good but not so good when mixed with a "DUMP"

So all that being said, are there any other tips for the 98's performance I should take away?

 

Brettl-

There's many parallels with gasoline and K&N filters. Both have their Koolaid brigades that swear up and down that what they've been told or have read on the internet is true- but have absolutely nothing behind them to back it up. They then pass this info onto others who also drink the Koolaid. Any attempts to seek out the truth are met with mockery and insult. Undue faith is placed on the mythical butt dyno which says that if a person has spent $30 on a go faster part, the car now goes $30 faster.

On the subject of octane- the rating on the pump is solely a standardized measurement of resistance to detonation and nothing else. Nothing to do with 'quality', purity, volume/type of additives, power to leap tall buildings etc, etc. despite what some legends and myths otherwise state. This is easily verifiable if you have doubts, or if yet another Koolaid brigade shows up.

Older, non-computer controlled cars had no safeguards to deal with inadequate octane levels in fuel. Under certain conditions, it was possible to induce detonation (knocking, pinging) that if left unchecked could damage an engine. The OEM would specify a minimum octane rating (expressed as AKI in North America, RON pretty well everywhere else) to be used which would ensure that no serious level of detonation would occur.

Modern cars have electronic measurement systems commonly called 'knock sensors' that will detect any signs of detonation and take remedial action long before any damage occurs and usually without the driver being aware. The corrective action taken by the engine's computer is to reduce the ignition spark advance. In theory, this means you could run a car on distilled gnat's pee but in practice it may result in lower power output by the engine and reduced fuel mileage due to the less than optimized spark timing.

As a result, the OEM still specifies the minimum octane requirement that will avoid these possibilities under all circumstance. In other words- here's the fuel rating that will give the full rated power and mileage you're expecting.

I understand that with your particular car, this is 91 AKI. Unless you want to experiment with lower levels of octane, which many here have done, I'd suggest you stick with that.

There is NOTHING to be gained by using higher octane than 91. It does not provide any additional insurance and if the technical aspects behind octane ratings vs. detonation are well understood, no reason to give additional peace of mind.

Knowledge is power.

 

I am sorry you feel insulted. Some people on this forum actually met me in person, and know who I am (I am not hiding behind the keyboard). And no, I've never been booted off of this site (or any other one for that matter), and I don't think I ever will. I had no intention to insult you (you WOULD know if I did, trust me). You are obviously very convinced in your opinions (we all have at least one, don't we?).

So you are right, and I am wrong. You are the gasoline expert on this forum (congratulations!), and you also made No.1 on my ignore list.

Hope you are happy now.

 

I use Costco for a lot of purchases, including gas. Based on Danielsand's input I just changed my mind. I just spent $1500 rebuilding my engine and trying to keep my XJR running as well as I can. It's Chevron from now on.
I also run a highly modified Mustang and have experienced detonation after filling at Costco, I put it down to my engine tuning, not gas.
You live and learn.

 

Daniel-

I'm not interested in contests to determine who is 'the expert'. A poster above asked a specific question, and to me he deserves a correct and accurate answer.

It's unfortunate that the discussion degraded into silly discussion about apple pie- but you were not the instigator of this but were more or less goaded along by another poster. I would have thought that a Moderator would be above such conduct no matter what their personal biases are.

So no, I'm not happy now, just disappointed.

 

I almost lose the will to live when it comes to 'arguments' over fuel and oil.

I am no expert, nor do I try to be.

If a car manufacturer not only recommends an industry standard rating then I think that they will have also worked out what is 'normally' best for their cars over an average lifetime.

Any arguments about trying to get extra performance/economy out of a 10 to 15 year old daily 'Street' vehicle are moot IMHO.

Shove a huge Nitrous charge in there and go like stink all the way to the boneyard.

Anyone, with any vehicle, who thinks that by putting in fuel of a higher rating than is specified by the manufacturer, on a road car, is a good idea, is just giving money away.

99.99999% of all driving is not at full bore.

Unless you are running some sort of race engine in your Jaguar Saloon, then stick with the ratings as specified. Otherwise you will waste cash.

Me, for clean fuel, well apart from fuel station volumes, I also consider my own fuel filter.

Perhaps it might be prudent/adventitious that some of the main posters in this thread actually state what their experience/expertise actually is in their Public Profiles.

"Retired" is hardly useful. Guys?

And yes, I am sorry that you US guys have Quality Control Problems with your fuel.

With the best Will in the World, we will look into it!

And WILL certainly step in when some form of 'Goading' takes place.

 

a) technical response on the matter of variance in fuel quality for this thread and the future is at:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...71/#post707440

b) in my view, moderators remain full members and as such, posting privileges remain unfettered.

It is true that at times a moderator will "pull their punches". However, it is also true that moderators might give a veteran member the benefit of the doubt. I am particularly careful to be fair where the member is directly opposed to what I myself am posting.

Having said that, it is in my view a prime duty of a moderator to ensure that new or inexperienced members or future readers receive a balanced treatment of technical matters as it might have a direct impact on the well being of themselves or their vehicle. Opinion, stated as opinion and clearly identified as such is another story.

 

Thanks for your note and suggestions Richard- they have good merit. I'm not sure that there actually is a fuel quality problem in the US at all, just a widespread belief there must be. My professional background is of only moderate influence on this particular topic and I'm sure would be dismissed entirely by those averse to a heretical viewpoint anyway.

This general subject is 'deja vu all over again' for me- when unleaded gas was introduced in the mid-70s there were all sorts of doomsday predictions of plague and locust infestation, 99.9% of which turned out to be unfounded.

When leaded gas was withdrawn some years later, the same sky-is-falling stories resurfaced, amazingly from the same people in some cases (?) Obviously, the snake oil salesmen were front and centre with all sorts of cures for things that were not actually problem in the first place.

Just to make things more confusing and to bolster the beliefs of the conspiracy theorists and Luddites, North America changed it's octane rating systems right in the midst of converting over to unleaded. The advertised number shown on the pump ended up being about four points lower (95 RON = 91 AKI), despite the efforts of retailers to explain the change

Still to this day, the myths about 'fuel being better back then' persist despite the passage of almost 40 years time. There's many people today who believe that EU gasoline is 'higher quality' because of the ratings they've seen on the pumps.

Fast forward to today, E10 is new to some parts of the US- so of course it's perceived as being evil and the cause of any and all difficulties that an owner might run across. I've lost count of how many times I've told people that we've had E10 here for 20+ years with no issue, but for some reason, people want to believe the horror stories instead.

One thing hasn't changed- the snake oil people have stepped up to the challenge and are cashing in big time- just look at the number of posts here asking about additives that will stave off impending doom.

 

There is NOTHING to be gained by using higher octane than 91. It does not provide any additional insurance and if the technical aspects behind octane ratings vs. detonation are well understood, no reason to give additional peace of mind.

Knowledge is power.[/QUOTE]

Really, nothing, NOTHING to be gained by octane higher than 91, REALLY??

So if I'm running 15 psi off my eaton making lots of heat, are your standing by your statement that 100 octane will run the exact same HP output on a dyno than 91?

I agree that the computer, sensing knock with its sensors will back off the timing to prevent further detonation, but wouldn't backing off the timing REDUCE POWER?

I am confused here. Please set me straight that with high boost and high heat 91 and 100 octane fuels perform the same.

 

The OP here, as far as we know, has an unmodified car that will achieve full rated power on 91 octane.

If the 15 psi boost on your car induces detonation, then yes higher octane fuel may avoid having the knock sensors pull timing. Not sure if pure 100 octane would be required, possibly a blend of 91 and 100 would do the job

Other than that, waste of money.

 

Back to the question about K&N air filters. If you want to find out if such an air filter will increase your gas mileage, you should read what K&N says. Typically, it's not smart to rely on the manufacturer's propoganda, but in this case the answer to the question is simply that a less restrictive air filter (i.e. K&N) should mean better gas mileage, but even K&N honestly reports that this is only a theory and they do not make such a claim. Also found it interesting that they DO claim a 1 to 4 horsepower increase, but as they said, you can't have your cake and eat it, too -- many people will drive their cars harder when they have more horsepower (fun?) so they will actually notice a decrease in MPG.

K&N Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

As for the discussion about octane -- I was told many years ago when I bought a new Acura TL Type S that I should use premium unleaded but if I used a lower octane to listen for ping -- no ping = no problem, that's what Acura told me. I leased the car, didn't give a crap about preserving it for ever, so I used whatever gas I wanted to use. The only differernce (perceived?) was a lack of performance when I used regular vs. 91 or 93 octane.

And, as for the comments by the two posters here who each claim to be experts but only voice their opinions, thanks! I appreciate your opinions, both of you. I would never buy Costco gas, but that's because I don't like Costco, not because of anything I've heard about their gas. However, when it comes to other stations, I have for many years tended toward purchasiing my gas from name-brand (whatever that means!) stations like Shell, Mobil, Amoco, BP. Currently, I "think" my car runs best on Mobil 93 octane. Whether that's my imagination or a combination of additives and filters, who cares? I'm happy with spending my money there and will continue to do so until I find a reason to switch -- Mobil is also the most convenient station for me, if that were to change, then I'd find another brand.