Hi All,

Today I took the jag to work.. makes a change I usually reserve it for weekends :-) But on arrival heard a rattling noise from the front of the engine, as if something is tapping against an outside cover of the engine. It is there at all engine speeds, even in park, and rises in frequency and speed as the engine speed rises sounding more like something 'slapping around'. I am unsure to be honest if it is one of the pumps or a chain as sound travels on engines :-) Has anyone had this sound and is it the timing chain issue which looks likely to be £250 plus just for the parts?
Many thanks

 

and the rest.....you're forgetting timing cover gaskets and cam cover gaskets.

It sounds like the classic tensioner fail and chain slap. Next is a rough idle at startup as the cam skips a tooth, likely event is two skipped teeth and a destroyed engine.

DO NOT START THE CAR AGAIN UNTIL SEEN TO.

DO NOT START THE CAR AGAIN UNTIL SEEN TO.

DO NOT START THE CAR AGAIN UNTIL SEEN TO.

DO NOT START THE CAR AGAIN UNTIL SEEN TO.

 

Does it go away when you increase the RPM's? If it is what Sean B indicates, do not drive it again and get ready to spend 2grand. If it goes away with more RPM it could be the SC? but from what you are describing it is the dread guides. Say thanks to Jaguar for placing plastic in a high performance motor.

 

It is there all the time, but quieter at higher revs.. my problem is the car cost £500 to buy (not a lot I know, but for me that's quite a bit esp as I seem to have a bad history with cars :-( ) so am enquiring after quotes based on it being the timing chain tensioners tomorrow from some local garages.. Thankyou both of you for your input.

 

In my opinion Jaguars are made for two types of people. They are the rich and the mechanically inclined. I fall into the second type.

 

It's a 3.2 - did they have the upper tensioner issues too? I have not heard of this. Also notice engine was replaced at 100,000 miles.

 

Same engine exactly apart from 800cc less displacement.

 

Hi Guys,

I cant get the car into the garage till the 19th of the Month as cant get it there weekends as garages are closed, and weekdays solid work sigh.. but I will keep you guys updated as I go.. Now I *know* when you get problems you start to imagine additional things but.. I thought I would throw this in and see if anyone goes oh yes... it could be.. (something cheaper :-)) but I have tried it today and a) the noise is quite quiet when engine cold, and it gets noisy when engine hot.. also I would swear (but this ties in with my comment about imagining additional things when you have a problem) but I would swear that there is also a whining noise (like a alternator bearing or an electric motor being turned if that makes sense) that gets faster and slower with revs that sounds as if it is towards the left hand side back of the engine looking into the engine from the front of the car..
It is not the same obviously :-) but when I had a ford mondeo water pump going I got tapping sound and whining too...
Many thanks for listening :-)) I've only had this car about 4 months so far and am not keen on it being the car I like the most and had for the least time.. :-) :-) :-)

 

Best thing to do is to isolate the noise, shade tree mechanic style, get a pipe and place it where you think the noise is coming from. Put your ear to the other in and listen at different section of the engine, until you are sure you found the source of the noise.

BUT, if it is the timing chain and you start it and it skip a tooth or two, you will be looking at replacing the engine. SO, if you 100% sure it is not the timing chain, then proceed with caution.

The noise you decribe can be assocated with a bearing and also the chain sliding on the guide rail.

 

If it is "slapping" you are one tooth away from disaster. do not drive it. I would highly recommend whilst the car is in the shop to replace the water pump, and a transmission service, filter/fluid change and after the repair is completed change the oil and add 3 qts of Lucas oil stabilizer to the crankcase along with conventional oil. Sounds to be you got the car for short money and this bit of service will extend your purchase...Intersted to know what the charge you for service.

 

Jags of this year are about £500 to £1000 typically here.. but I guess there's good ones and bad ones :-) Am still very hopeful with mine but hey will see what I find out when I get the car looked at and quoted and then decide :-(

 

If you can twirl a socket set, it's no more than 1/2 an hour to check the situation with the tensioners.

You have to remove the on-plug coil cover and coils, then remove a cam cover and you'll be able to see if you've a tensioner failure.

There's a number of threads on this forum with pictures to help.

 

I am busy researching prior to going to the garage on 19th.. so I have price comparisons.. am I right in saying that the noise is the secondary chains and tensioners, which seem to be short ones at the top (going by the ebay pictures of the parts) or is it the big kit that is needed which seems to have some huge chains and lots of bits in it?
Thankyou for your input.. I did start the car after three days in the cold and wet and it definately has a very loud rattle near the top on one side while starting which then gets quieter before becoming half as noisy again when the engine gets hot..

 

Just located these tensioners on ebay:
JAGUAR XJ8/XK8/XKR/V8 S TYPE TOP TENSIONERS C2A1511 / C2A1512
at £75.00 for the pair....

 

Steve,

Is the noise quite loud?

For sure, you should look under the cam covers, especially since you may not know the car's service history. Sean B is right... it is pretty easy to have a look at the secondary tensioners.

Also, you might want to check your AC compressor. If the hub has failed, it will clang around inside the pulley recess and make quite a racket. It just seems a bit odd to me that the sound does not go away at higher rpm, if it is the tensioners. Also, if it is slapping that much, it is surprising that you have not already skipped a tooth.

Without running the engine, you could check the hub by crawling under the car and gently prying with a screw driver on the outer circumference. If it moves easily from side to side and contacts the inside of the pulley, it could be the culprit.

 

OK time for an update..
I have read all the FAQs on here I could find over the past week, and had a degree of trepidation about figuring things out after reading about bolts that might need cutting, dipsticks moved etc.. :-) *but* had a couple of hours free and wanted to see if I could figure things out.
I found the bolt by the dipstick could be reached with a long 10mm socket easier than the FAQs suggested.. and also the bolts with pins that hold the top covers on were removable easily this way.
I have always had cars with one set of coils, a distributor, and HT leads before - I like the Jag method of a coil per plug - in theory better as no high voltages flying around except where they are needed.
I broke what I think is a breather pipe mounted via one of those (easy to break I have found twice now) but have taped it back together after the work.. but otherwise all OK.
I have had a look inside the passenger side cam cover and the tensioner is bright orange and I assume the plastic variety.. I am assuming they are giving the startup rattle, and after listening carefully I think its the water pump giving the rattle or tap tap noise when running..

 

I've ordered the tensioners listed further back in this thread.. hopefully fit them mid week if they arrive quickly, and I'll change the water pump over in a week or so..

 

Steve, did you check the cam flats for alignment, if you can't get a straight edge across them?
If you're planning on doing the job, you'll know what I'm on about

 

I opened up the passenger side only as I didnt want to remove the air intake etc. and it is the driver side that has the rattle. The tensioners should be with me Wednesday I am hoping, so will take off both covers then and have a look and when in there rotate the secondary cam a tooth to get it to line up if need be. But as soon as I saw orange plastic I was glad I looked based on what I have heard on here :-) I'm still twitchy about this job, but looking at the various threads on here if I take it steady I should be OK. That should solve the startup rattle - then I need to tackle the second tappety noise which when listening around the engine is coming from the middle front - so am assuming the water pump bearings.
Once I have done these two things I will at least know the engine itself should be safe :-)
Thankyou for all your input so far.

 

Don't forget about that later on ... it will cause you all kinds of grief tracking it down someday.

The tensioner job is ok ... the only critical point if using the zip-tie method is torquing the cam bearing caps. It is otherwise just removing and replacing a bunch of fasteners.

Just remember to mentally rehearse the intent of the zip ties.