I decided to start this new thread to my ongoing saga (started in the "Pain In The Rear (Seat)" thread).

If you've been reading my posts, I set out to repair the original Alpine subwoofer in my 2000 XJR sedan, which has the "premium" sound system...

Once removing the speaker from the vehicle, I took time and patiently and carefully cleaned the old (and completely separated) foam surround from the subwoofer speaker. I used a Dremel tool to polish all surface and then I used an electronics vacuum and compressed air to remove all dust and debris from the subwoofer.

I then added the new foam surround (I bought it from SpeakerWorks--recomended elsewhere here on this forum), let the glue set, and then tested the speaker in the vehicl. The results were SPECTACULAR. In fact, the subwoofer was so powerful that I couldn't tolerate it at +7; I found that +3 was about as much as I could stand. I never remembered the subwoofer being so powerful in my vehicle, so I was thrilled!!!

Then I took the speaker out of the vehice and glued back the plastic "cap" that contains its own mesh. That "cap", once glued, appears to be an inseparable part of the speaker. I then placed the entire assembly back in the vehicle and tested it again. This time I thought: "What the heck?" I had almost NO subwoofer response. I went to the speaker and put my finger against the speaker cone because I could ony barely perceive it (even hen I put the subwoofer level to +7 and the bass level to +5) but I could feel that the subwoofer was in fact moving--ever so slightly.

It appears to me that adding and gluing that "cap" ended up completely ruining the resiliency of the foam surround I worked so diligently to properly replace. Now I have to start all over again.

I will talk to SpeakerWorks tomorrow to see what they might know or say. I am very sad, disappointed, and a bit frustrated, but I wanted to share this experience here. Had I not tested the subwoofer before gluing that cap back on, I never would have known that the subwoofer had such power. This taught me a lot about the material properties of a foam surround--it is critical that the material allow the speaker to move freely.

Regards,
Jon

 

Look forward to hearing about your results I need to tackle my sub planning on doing same thing as you.

 

@dneider: Thank you for posting. It's great to know that at least one person is interested in what I have to say on this subject.

OK--here's the scoop: I ordered another new foam surround and started the whole project over again. This time I didn't attach the grille (what I was calling the "cap"). Now the speaker works perfectly.

I never felt that I ever wanted to tar-and-feather another human being, but now there are two on my list: (1) the guy who decided that the subwoofer grille on the rear dash should not be removable from the cabin side--without having to remove the rear seat assembly, rear pillars, and rear shelf; and (2) the guy who decided that it's a good idea to glue a grille to a speaker's foam surround. (If these happen to be the same guy then the feathers are going to have to be pink and the tar is going to have to have skunk oil in it.)

Thankfully, I ordered my foam surround from a company called Speakerworks.com that--get this--actually cares about its customers (if you leave a message they're very good about calling back). I spoke to a guy named "Trev" and I have to say that this guy is rather amazing. I spent about $15 and received better treatment from him than from places where routinely spend thousands. He ended up troubleshooting my subwoofer troubles with me and I learned some really useful things about dual voice-coil speakers. While he was unfamiliar with the problem I described (that is, the sub appeared to stop working after reattaching the grille), he nevertheless brainstormed with me before accepting my order for another foam surround. Here is what he and I discussed:

[My advice is to TURN YOUR HEAD UNIT OFF whenever you attach or re-attach any of the speaker wires--just to protect the amp from any sudden changes in resistance, etc. You certainly don't want to get as far as you did with the sub only to damage the amp in the process... ]

• When you repair the dual voice-coil sub and want to test it, do the following things with the black speaker grille (not the dash-mounted grilled) removed and the sub volume up to +7:
  • Attach only ONE of the speaker connectors to the speaker first--say the left side only. Then play your music. With your eye or finger, feel or watch for speaker activity.
  • Then remove the connected side and connect the other side. Do the same test.
  • This will let you confirm that both voice coils are working (if only one works then you will not be able to achieve the sub level potential of the Alpine-designed system). If they are not you could have an issue with the speaker or the amp or the wiring or the connector. If only one side works then you can attach the working cable to the other side of the speaker to determine whether it's a connector issue or a speaker issue.
  • If only one side works and it appears to be because only one of the speaker pairs is providing sound, then you can troubleshoot the wiring or the amp accordingly.

• When I--during my first repair attempt--attached the black speaker grille with glue the speaker still vibrated but it no longer had the freedom of movement required and ended up with an imperceptible volume of sound even at +7. The roll (the convex perimeter on the foam surrounded) appeared to be undamaged, but something happened to the foam surround after gluing down the speaker grilled. My theory is that the replacement foam surround has a roll that is different from the original roll--perhaps it is more convex or it is closer to the outside perimeter of the speaker. Whatever the reason, the speaker grille definitely interfered with its ability to flex even though I was very careful with the glue and saw no glue residue anywhere on the roll.
• TEST THE SPEAKER before you screw it down. Everything is a real pain when installing this speaker (for example, just screwing it down requires you to sandwich your hand between the speaker and the rear windshield--and requires a very short screwdriver). Verify that it works perfectly before you start to put everything back together.

I had called a few other speaker companies and one of them that is prominent on the internet actually pokes fun at the speaker companies that use the water-soluble Elmer's type glue. In fact, it was this Elmer's glue (the kind Speakerworks includes in its foam-surround replacement kit) that saved me: To loosen the grille I just used an eyedropper and dropped water around the grille's perimeter. About 15 minutes later, the glue--which was clear--became white again, and this softened the glue enough to enable me to pry off the grille without cracking it or damaging the speaker. Had that glue been some sort of epoxy, I never would have been able to do a second attempt. So what other companies claim is "inferior glue", I think it's perfect for this application. (I realize that you could use an epoxy to adhere the foam surround only then an Elmer's-type glue only for the grille, but since the cone on this Alpine sub appears to be a porous paper product, I think the Elmer's glue is not only sufficient but perhaps even ideal.)

While I have the rear seat assembly away from the vehicle, I plan to wire a 100-foot spool of wire (wire that contains a ground plus two signal wires) that goes from the trunk to the inside rear of the car. Then at some future point (soon, I hope) I'll tackle the project that will give me an Aux-In feature. There are several solutions to that problem and I am still considering which one I want to implement.

Regards,
Jon

 

Can you just replace the sub with another one? I have a 2000 XJR as well and I'm having sound issues with the sub!

 

Yes, of course you can replace the subwoofer with a new one provided that:

* You find a 6x9 dual-voice-coil subwoofer.

I was going to buy a new one from Jaguar but I think the foam surround they used was so bad that I feel an after-market surround is going to last much longer. Also, I did not price it, but I hear that they really take advantage of you on the price because they might know how difficult these speakers are to obtain from another source...

Even if you buy a new one, you still need to get to it, and you going to have to pay someone to do that and hope/trust they won't break anything in the process (including the rear shelf itself).

Regards,
Jon

 

The Jag unit is, if I recall, more than $150 and I have, as of yet, been unable to find another dual voice coil 6x9... so surround repair is one of the few options.

Sorry to hear about your trouble, Jon; my repair went perfectly the first time and has lasted nearly two years, so far. BTW, I also replaced the surrounds on my Bose 501's with the SpeakerWorks units - another perfect result with 3 years and going.

 

Thanks for the great tips Jon. I'm about three weeks out from starting this project. I'm going to order the repair kit from SpeakerWorks in the next few days. I'm assuming it's just the regular 6x9 kit. To be quite honest, I haven't even given much thought to repairing the speaker itself. I guess I've been overwhelmed with the idea of getting the seat and rear shelf out. My goal is to break nothing.......we'll see. The other goal is get everything back in place just as it was. I think I'll follow your advice and keep that speaker cover off. Since there's a cover on the main shelf, I can't imagine why anyone would need another. Maybe it will make more sense once I get things apart and see for myself.

Thanks again,
Jon

 

It's not that hard... seat and shelf takes less than 40 minutes... I left the seat belts in place, and just pulled the seatback forward, unspooling the belts with it.

 

@BonesXJR: You're welcome. As QuadManiac said, in the end it's not that bad but you definitely need to have the right tools available (small and large Torx tools, for instance) and you need to be able to LIFT the rear seat back UP so that it clears the seat-belt support beams. I will try to post some photos and it will become much clearer. The good part is that I found everything much easier to put back together than I did in taking things apart...

As with anything, if you don't encounter trouble while doing something then of course it seems easy in retrospect. It doesn't mean it IS easy--it just means it was easy for you on that particular occasion. I wasn't as lucky (apparently) as QuadManiac but I ran into issues with tools, the seat back being "stucK" and requiring the lifting force of two strong men, and my speaker foam surround that didn't work well after gluing back the speaker's black grille.

Personally, I don't see how anyone can remove those rear pillars (the ones onto which the rear inside lights are mounted) without either luck or force unless they have consulted a technical manual first. There is only ONE WAY to properly remove them and it involves sliding them first before pulling them free. I will try to find a diagram that shows them (if someone has this diagram, please post it here!).

Regards,
Jon

 

The side pillars have to be removed as well? I thought the front side of the shelf just lifted up slightly and then slid out toward the front seats. That means the pillars have to be removed all the way to the front then, right? When I replaced my tweeters, I think the front pillar goes up and toward the rear and overlaps the rear section...maybe I'm wrong.

 

Hi Jon
Here are 2 JPEG files from JEPC (Jaguar Electronic Parts Catalog) screen captures. Click on the thumbnail images a few times to get maxium viewing size.

This first one shows all of the pillar post finishers (A Pillars - Front, B & C Pillars - between doors, D & E Pillars - Rear, fixing button, fir tree):



Second one shows the rear parcel shelf parts (parcel shelf, parcel shelf trim panel, blanking plug, fixing button):



Also, Look at this thread about how to replace subwoofer speaker:
Couple of '02 XJR Issues

Go down to post# 5 - There is a PDF file extract from the Jaguar Shop Repair manual on replacing the speakers. It has the instructions and illustrations on how to replace all of the speakers includes removal of rear seat and rear parcel shelf.

There is also another thread that recommends available subwoofer speaker replacements:
how do i remove the 6x9 subwoofer from rear deck?

Go down to post# 10 - read the post numbers 10 and the others earlier dated ones in the thread.

Jim Lombardi

 

I'm currently planning to replace my blown 6x9 sub too. I tried to do it myself but getting those back seats out was harder than I thought. Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm using a 6x9 Tang Band Subwoofer that I bought on Amazon. You can also order them directly from Parts Express. They are highly rated subs. Those 6x9 subs are hard to find so I had to do some research. After reading about your difficult experiece, I think I'll leave the installation of my sub to a professional.

 

I did not remove the pillars - I just bent the package shelf edges as I was pulling it up and forward to clear the pillars. Very easy, not anywhere near to feeling like something would break.

 

That sub is not dual voice coil... how do you plan on driving it with the dual VC sub amps in the Jag?

 

@Jimlombardi
Thank you for your post. Those images and links are very helpful. However, the image of the D/E pillars doesn't really show anything useful in terms of how to remove it.

@QuadManiac
Always great to see your posts. I do not recommend that anyone try to remove the parcel shelf (rear deck) without removing the pillars first. I think you asked if you "need to" remove them and I would say you don't need to, just like you don't need to turn off the head unit before changing speakers--but it's a good idea to do so as you increase risk if you do not. The risk in this case (as others have written) is that you can break/crack the rear shelf. The older the vehicle is or the more that rear deck has been exposed to harmful UV light or left in the heat, etc., the more brittle and unforgiving the material becomes. I also know people who condition the leather faithfully and others (like me) who rarely do--there are just too many factors involved that make it difficult to say that the rear shelf and fascia will flex enough to be removed without removing the D/E pillars first. By the way, I tried and my rear deck would not quite flex enough and I began to feel that I was exerting too much force on it. Once I remove those pillars there was far more room but the rear shelf *still* needed some finessing in order to be pulled up and away from the rear windshield.

@ryanfranz
It is unclear from your message how far you went with removing the seat. You said "removing those seat backs". In the sedan we've been discussing, there is only one seat back that runs the width of the vehicle. Is that the part you had trouble removing? If so, find someone to grab the other side and pull the bottom edge of the seat back about 10 degrees forward then LIFT AS THOUGH YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT! I found it useful to life with repeated single pulls rather than one steady pull. As long as you removed the four retaining screws along the bottom, you should be fine and the seat back should lift up and over the seat-belt posts on which it is mounted.


Regards,
Jon

 

Oh, and I agree--if the subwoofer is not a dual voice-coil model, how do you plan on wiring it? If you use only one of the pairs of wires going to your existing sub then you will get half the volume of sound and (I think) only either the left or right side of the subwoofer-level sound. Also, you bought an 8 ohm speaker and I'm pretty sure that each pair of wires is expecting 4 ohms on the other end so even if you bought two 6x9 and could figure out a way to get them both in your rear deck, you will have a mismatch on the ohms. I'll let others who know far more about this chime in on the technical aspects but I do not know if replacing the factory sub with a single voice-coil 8-ohm model is a suitable solution--especially considering the expense and effort you will undertake to install a new sub. I would rather see you buy a new Jaguar-Alpine dual voice-coil speaker and do the job right... You'll likely be much happier with the results.

Regards,
Jon

 

Hi
Sorry I did not find this C-Pillar removal and install information earlier.

Here is the PDF extract from the JTIS21 manual (I created the PDF a few minutes ago) - see page 4 for passenger assistance handle R&I that is called out in page 1:

XJ8 C Pillar Trim Panel R&I.pdf

Hope this helps to make the removal & install easier.

Jim Lombardi

 

I had a hard time getting the full back seat out by myself. Sounds as if it would of been a waste of time if the sub I bought will not work. I'll try to return it and look at the sub you are using. I was just looking at the size and didn't know that the amp was dual voice coil. So glad I posted and you guys were here to set me straight before I put alot of work and money into it for nothing. Thanks!

 

Just found a website called vintagevibes.net that sells 4ohm dual voice coil 140 watt 6x9 speakers for $45. I'll purchase one from them and return the tang band sub for refund. Thanks again for the advice!

 

Ryan,

While I've yet to tackle this project myself, I have done some extensive research from numerous posts on the site and one thing I can relay is that the depth of the sub might be an issue. There is not a lot of clearance between the shelf and the fuel tank (which is directly below the shelf). Unless you plan on doing some kind of mod there, I would try to find the depth of the OEM sub and look for something similar...

My theory...and I might be completely wrong here...is that if I can actually get to the sub, I can't imagine having any problem fixing it. Sounds like getting to it is the headache...

Just my thoughts, but I'm always open to ideas...

-Jon