Voodooman and Chasman,

Thanks for posting the photos and details of dropping the subframe.

I will be doing this on my XJR as soon as the weather warms up a bit. I don't have access to a garage large enough to do it inside.

I have already bought the vee mounts, perhaps I should get the rear mounts as well, they look ok on the car but it's difficult to tell.

I don't get any noises from the front suspension, but the car definitely wanders and seems too keen to follow lines in the road. There is definitely slack in one of the vee mounts if not both.

Tyres are assymmetric P zero Pirellis as per original spec.

Brian.

 

Hi

Get the back ones mine looked ok until I dropped the frame and they were wrecked out of sight .

My car wanders but I think the tracking is now out. The car looks different and is definetly higher at the front. Now also super quiet on the road . My rear drive joints are gone and that's my next job. On holiday at the moment hoping to do it when I get home.

Peter

 

So i did this about five thousand miles ago. Now when i brake hard the front suspension dives to the point it has pulled the lower radiator hose off. Any ideas?
I suppose it could be that the front subfame mount on the passenger side is loose, or broken, but I can't imagine it is. The engine does not rock when I apply throttle with the brake on so I know it is not motor mounts, which I just replaced. I replaced all bushings and mounts a few months ago, and don't think this problem was happening then, but I don't drive the car, my kid does. I discovered an issue when he got a cel, which was caused by the pcv pipe coming off the induction pipe. Also the expanded part of the induction pipe had holes in it from being over stretched. Then the lower radiator hose came loose. Clearly, the engine and front suspension dives, and the body rises upon heavy braking.....Help?

 

I really need some help with this one. Today I did another full underbody inspection, using a jack to push up on suspension components, looking to see if the front subframe mounts were showing any movement. None. The engine moves with respect the engine compartment probably four or five inches down under heavy braking. From the drivers seat it appears as if the front end climbs four or five inches. Please, I am sure this is a no brainer, but I seem to be unable to solve this.

Everything is tight, the motor mounts are sound, and all the parts have less than five thousand miles on them.

 

Lots of readers remember the titles of threads that they have reviewed and have no interest in following. That means less readers would see your thread than you might expect.

Therefore, it is best to start a new thread with a descriptive title and full information.

 

John,

I'm no expert on the front subframe mountings, but as far as I know the only points of contact between the front subrame / engine assembly and the rest of the vehicle body are the two vee mounts and the two rear mounts.

So if the body really is moving 4 or 5 inches with respect to the subframe, then either these mount are worn / faulty, or the engine mounts themselves are worn / faulty. I suppose the mounting at the rear of the gearbox might be worn so that the engine / gearbox is actually tilting on acceleration /deceleration, but I would have thought that the front mountings would have minimised that. I once had a similar problem on my Ford Granada (Merkur Scorpio to you in America) but that also resulted in a loud bang from beneath the floor of the car.

One more thought, are your rear brakes working correctly? Perhaps the rear brakes are not operating so the whole of the braking effort is being put on the front wheels, with the rest of the car trying to 'overtake' the front axles? Perhaps worth checking out? Note that the handbrake (parking brake) works differently so that might be ok even if the main rear brakes aren't.

Brian.

 

Thanks Brian,
So I am going to assume that the mounts I just replaced are broken. I am going to try to replace the mounts again, and have already ordered them. I looked at the alldata, and note that they say you can replace the mounts without removing the rear bushings. When I did this before, I replaced everything, so I am familiar with the subframe. The alldata instructions say I have to comress the springs mid suspension. I have to say, I don't know why. I would guess that I would not need to. Any thoughts?

 

John,

I'm not sure why the springs need to be compressed, surely you will be lowering the whole subframe away from the body and the suspension is just part of that. Perhaps it is to make it easier to remove the damper top mountings from the inner wings? Or to fit them back afterwards?

When you did your under-car inspection the other day, did you raise the car using a jack under the body or main chassis rails? If you did, I would have expected the engine and subframe to drop much like you say is happening on braking, if the vee mounts have failed.

Brian.

 

Hey Jag owners. I'm replacing also the front subframe rear mounts as the old ones were totally destroyed (XJR made in 2001). Before removing them I marked the rubber cut-outs position. I bought the new ones from British Parts (listed as MNC2370AC)
Subframe Mount Front - MNC2370AC | Jaguar XJ8 X308 - XJR | Jaguar | British Parts UK

here is a better picture:
JAGUAR Front Round Mount XJ40 X300 X308 *BRAND NEW* - JAGworks
http://www.jagwebworld.com/wp-conten.../MNA237O11.jpg

today I discovered it is actually MNA2370AA and fits older X300, some sites tell it fits also X308. They have rubber cut-outs in a different position so that my marking on the subframe is not usable anymore.

Do you think MNA2370AA can be used instead of MNC2370AC (outer diameter is the same)? If yes how do I align it?

 

what way are the cut outs different? They should physically fit...maybe query Britishparts, you want the correct bushes....

did you have a look here?
Genuine Jaguar Parts and Jaguar Accessories for Classic Jaguars from Jaguar Classic Parts UK

I always use oem bushes, but in some cases these suppliers like David Manners, British parts use the same maker, for instance LemForder

 

what way are the cut outs different?

to see the difference look here MNC2370AC:
Google Image Result for http://partsforjaguar.co.uk/product_images/m/616/MNC2370AC__85462.JPG

and compare it to MNA2370AA:
Google Image Result for http://www.justjagsuk.com/uploads/images/1200/No10104_MNA2370AA.jpg


British Parts answered:
"...we are showing the bush mna2370aa is superceded to the mnc2370ac. These bushes are the same and are suitable for both models..."

But both parts ARE NOT the same. Do you think it is worth to install them?

 

Hi Mindugs,

My advice would be not to use the bushes supplied by British Parts.

I too ordered a pair of the correct part number (MNC2370AC) bushes from British Parts about a year ago, they sent me two different bushes, the size looked similar but the hole was in the middle, not offset. After some investigation by me I deduced that they had sent me was MHC2370 which was for the older XJ cars.

After a couple of 'phone calls I managed to convince them that they were wrong and returned them. They sent me what look like the correct bushes as replacements but like yours the slots are in a different position to the originals.

I didn't get around to fitting them yet but will be buying the genuine articles from one of the other suppliers instead.

British Parts may be correct in their statement that the MNA bush has been supeseded by the MNC bush, but the reverse isn't necessarily true and it appears that they have sent you the older version. Why go to the bother to fit the suspect ones when the correct bushes are available? You wouldn't want to do it twice!

Brian.

 

Thank you for your opinion. I already told British Parts I return their parts and have ordered another pair at Rimmer Brothers. What is strange British Parts tells white=yellow (states that two different parts are the same)

Other forum members, be aware of this if you decide to buy these mounts at British Parts! Until this case I have purchased many spare parts from them without any misunderstandings and was very happy with their service and parts quality.

 

I have experienced the same, mounts have cut outs in a different place...

Fitted them anyway, I will report if there is any change or unusual handling effect.

 

I will be doing my 'V' mounts in a couple of weeks, along with the rear mounts. Some of the pictures I have seen of the rear mounts, they appear to have the hole in them offset from centre, and some look to have the hole in the centre. I assume that the hole is central as I have not read about it being offset. Could someone confirm that the bolt holes in the bushes are in the centre of the bush. Thanks Bill W.

 

I can cinfirm that mine bushings were with the bolt holes NOT in the center. Thats why it is very important that you mark and also make a picture of the positioning of the old bushings before you remove them. Otherwise you might not be able to insert the bolts when mounting back the subframe.

 

Thanks mindugs, I'm slowly gathering all the information I can about the problems and solutions. The V8 in question is a 2001 Sovereign. Is it possible to determine whether my car has central or offset bushes before dismantling??

 

Hi Heliwilly. I'm not sure if you could see that before dismantling. But try it. Maybe you could remove bolts at botch sides and let a bit down the full subframe rear end (together with the engine) but with the front wheels off the ground.

 

The time has come to bite the bullet and get these 'V' mounts and rear bushes done.
I can see that people have replaced the 'V' mounts by just lowering the subframe enough to remove and replace the 'V' mounts.
Is it possible remove, and press back in, the rear mounts without disconnecting/draining the power steering pipework?
Looking at it, it does seem possible, but would like confirmation.
Thanks Bill W

 

I am trying to find the size of the socket needed to undo the rear bush mounting Nut and Bolt. I have a socket set that goes to 22mm and a 30mm socket I got for a Citroen. The 30mm fits but is slack.
They are torqued to 131Nm to 185Nm-- 96 to 136 Ft Lbs. What length of lever is needed to remove these???
I have the Disc version of the Manual, (2,400 pages). Any idea if the bolt/spanner size is mentioned anywhere?


Thanks Bill W.