XJ40 ( XJ81 ) 1986 - 1994

1993 Vanden Plas will not start

 
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:29 PM
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Question 1993 Vanden Plas will not start

Hello all,
First time Jag owner and new to the forum. Based on what I have read, I think I am in the right area. We bought the VDP in 2016 and it ran perfect till around May-June 2017. I was rear ended in Feb 2017 and done enough damage to the trunk lid that it does not close. Car was still running great and parked it one night in the drive and got up the next morning and it would crank but not start and hasn't started since. No spark to the plugs so, I replaced the coil. Still nothing. Getting power to the coil and out of the coil but still no spark. Started chasing items and thought the crank sensor might be dirty. Went to wipe it off and the bracket broke in my hand. After roughly a year seach, I finally found Helen Stodart in the UK with the new and improved bracket. Put the bracket on, still nothing. Replaced the crank sensor this afternoon and still nothing. The ignition switch seems fine since I get power to the coil when the switch is turned on. The car has less than 94,000 miles and I would really hate to scrap it out. All the fuses in all three blocks check good with a meter. I hear the fuel pump and smell fuel when it cranks and I have popped the innertia switch and reset it. All electrical items work like they did except the LH front and LH rear windows. Not sure if this is something to do with some type of Security default but, the LH Rear window does work properly using the switch in the back. It is showing that a bulb is out, trunk is open and the top left warning light stays on which appears to be a side veiw of the Trans with an X. No remote and only one key. I did try the reset of the security system mentioned on the forum but it did not seem to work. Will try the later things I read of flipping the security switch and / or cycling the ignition switch till I hear a "chirp" tomorrow. I know I am missing something simple so hopefully someone sees something I missed or done wrong. Thank you in advance for your help.

Mar
1993 Vanden Plas
Tampa area in Florida, USA
 
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:11 PM
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Hi Mar,

Welcome to the Jaguar Forums! It's great to have you with us.

Probably the most common cause of a Jaguar cranking but not starting is low battery voltage while cranking. If the voltage falls much below 11V while cranking, the Engine Control Module (ECM) will not trigger the ignition to fire, though it may pulse the fuel injectors leading to the unburned fuel you are smelling.

It would also be worth checking the distributor cap and rotor for signs of moisture, terminal erosion, tracking, arcing down the rotor to the distributor shaft, etc.

Another thing you can do is to check the Vehicle Condition Monitor for any stored Diagnostic Trouble Codes. To do so, turn the key to position II (ON) but do not crank the engine. Press and release the VCM button on the trip computer to the right of the steering wheel and watch for a message to appear in the small window below the speedometer where the odometer normally appears. DTCs are displayed in the form of Fuel Fail or FF and a two-digit number. If you find a DTC please post it here exactly as it appears and we'll try to help.

Cheers,

Don


 
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:31 AM
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Default Thank you for your reply

Hi Don, thank you for taking time to reply. I have run across the low battery issue before with the all the gauges not working so that one I keep a close eye on. When the issue first started the battery was new and I have even bought a new battery just to make sure. I had forgot about the on board diagnostics until last night but, I had already disconnected the battery to keep the alarm from running it down. Will check to see if it pops up a code when I work on her again. The distributor and rotor button appear to be ok but I was already wondering about them. I measure voltage when the coil wire is plugged in at the tip on the inside but not picking up anything from there. Wanted to see if there were any other thoughts on the Security stuff before replacing something else. Will update after I have try her again. Thank you again. Mar
 
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:04 PM
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If the cap and rotor are ok, (rotor notorious) - maybe check (unplug/clean/replug) the module harness just before the coil?

Larry
 
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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Thank you for your reply Larry. I get resistance when I check it with a meter but, I will take it apart and clean it out just in case. But, there is another metal resistor type unit beside the back half of the coil with only one wire visible running to the positive side of the coil. What does that one do?
Thank you Mar
​​​​​​
 
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by marmoore View Post
Thank you for your reply Larry. I get resistance when I check it with a meter but, I will take it apart and clean it out just in case. But, there is another metal resistor type unit beside the back half of the coil with only one wire visible running to the positive side of the coil. What does that one do?​​​​​​
That's a filter capacitor to reduce radio frequency interference, so it is not likely to have anything to do with your no-start condition.

Cheers,

Don

 
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:52 PM
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Only time mine got no spark was due to arcing leads and other time the rotor, not sure if it will work but you could hang the bulb or meter in place of coil and see if you get power there while cranking.
As for the windows it is probably window master switch that failed, you may be able to open it up and clean the relays inside but it is not fun job and don't last forever (i did mine several times)
 
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:41 AM
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Thank you Don and xjack for your replies. I went ahead and ordered a new distributor and rotor button and they should be here Sunday. Going to put the battery on the charger today to top it off and wait for the D & RB to get here. Will update once the new parts are on and she is going.... hopefully. Thanks to all again. Mar
 
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:42 AM
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I'm Late to the party here, I had a no start problem caused by the distributor cap Button stuck up inside the cap so, no contact with the rotor. No help, I know but there. I put my 2 cents in. Hope yours fixes you up.
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:51 PM
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Hello all,
Back at it again this afternoon. First I pulled the distributor cap off to make sure that the distributor shaft and button were turning. All good there. Checked the module harness in front of the coil and all seems good there. Checked for spark and still nothing. I am getting power to and thru the coil. So, I am assuming that the ignition switch is working properly. Once I got behind the wheel, I noticed that the LIghting symbol was showing. Hit the VCM button and it pulled up FUSE 2. Pulled Fuse 2 in the console and visually and meter tests good. Replaced the fuse and LIghting went away and hit VCM again and no FUSE 2. On the maybe end, I found my radio code and got the radio working. Still nothing. Even though I did notice that FM and AM keeps flashing. Don't remember it doing that before. After having the power on to get the radio working again, Lighting and FUSE 2 are showing again. Meter checked all fuse 2s in the LH, Center and RH blocks and all test good. I know that alot of things could also be throwing that Code so, does anyone have a list of potentials for a FUSE 2 code?

Thnak you everyone for your help.

Mar
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:14 PM
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Just noticed that info I thought I posted on Sunday is not here.... Thank you Jerry for your reply. That is something I would not have thought to check and I did use it as you will read in a minute. Got the new distributor and button on Sunday. When replacing the distributor, I noticed that the distributor button on the inside of the new one is much longer than the current one. Thought that may have been the issue but no change. Had to wait till today to have an assistant to help check for spark. Most recent update is right above this post.

Thank you

Mar
1993 Vanden Plas 4.0 L 94,000 miles
Was a daily driver

2014 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 L 84,000 miles
Now a daily driver
 

Last edited by marmoore; 03-25-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:31 PM
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Hi Mar,

I know you replaced the crankshaft position sensor, but sometimes a problem with the wiring harness is the problem. When you crank the engine, does the tachometer read about 200 rpm? If it reads 0 rpm, suspect a problem with the new CPS or its wiring. One thing that sometimes happens is that one or more pins back out of the electrical connector for the CPS so no contact is made. Pushing the pins back into position until they click and then reconnecting the connector often resolves that issue.

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:20 PM
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Default CPS

Hi Don, thanks for your reply. Yes, the tach needle moves up to about 200. Before I replaced the CPS I did this check and the needle would move sometimes and at others it would not so inconsistent readings means replace. So far, it has been consistent. Will double check the wires on my next work on her afternoon. Thank you for your help. Mar
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:37 PM
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I forgot to mention that I think I recall that the FUSE 2 warning indicates a fuse problem in the left hand A-pillar fuse box. I wonder if it could be a fuse related to your left side windows?

Have you measured the battery voltage sag while cranking? Even with a new battery with a full charge, corrosion on battery power and ground connections throughout the car can significantly reduce the voltage seen by the ECM. Some of the typical suspects are the battery cable terminals, the negative battery cable ground connection to the right inner wheel well, the battery power connections at each of the three fuse boxes, the alternator & starter, and the engine ground strap. Another prime suspect is the power stud that passes through the firewall. Cleaning the inside stud and cable eyelet terminals is challenging because of all the stuff in the way (glove box, relay panel, CPU, HVAC Blower housing), but that side is less prone to corrosion. The other side of the stud connects to the jump post in the engine bay, and it's a simple matter, with the battery disconnected, to remove the jump post (I think I recall it takes a 19mm deep socket), clean the eyelet terminals of the cable(s) attached, the jump stud and the jump post nut, and reinstall.

Other ground points that can affect the voltage seen by the ECM are the two on the intake manifold and the one on the firewall behind the cylinder head.

You mentioned that you can hear the fuel pump run and can smell fuel. Another test you can conduct to confirm that you have pressure at the fuel rail is to crack the two nuts loose where the fuel hose connects to the inlet end of the fuel rail (nearest the firewall), cover them with a cloth and continue loosening them just until fuel begins to spray out, establishing that you have fuel under at least some pressure.

If you determine that your fuel pump may not be running consistently, I can post a diagnostic procedure for locating problems with the pump or its electrical circuit.

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:50 PM
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Default Battery draw

Hi Don, thanks for all the info. Will check these items one at a time to drop them off the list. Using the car battery gague, the draw on the battery pulls the gauge down to 9 with the battery fully charged. May have to physically pull all the fuses to verify because they were all testing good with a meter. Thanks for all your help. Will update as I go along. Mar
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by marmoore View Post
Hi Don, thanks for all the info. Will check these items one at a time to drop them off the list. Using the car battery gague, the draw on the battery pulls the gauge down to 9 with the battery fully charged. May have to physically pull all the fuses to verify because they were all testing good with a meter. Thanks for all your help. Will update as I go along. Mar
I don't think we can trust the instrument cluster voltage gauge, but if the voltage really is sagging to 9 volts, the ECM will not trigger the ignition to fire. If you can measure with your meter across the battery terminals while cranking, watch for the meter to read below 11 volts - if it does, that is probably a main contributor to your no-start.

Another thing to be aware of is that the fuseboxes in the XJ40 are known to develop internal problems with cracked solder joints. If you pull the fuses and they all test OK with your meter, you may need to do some diagnostics on the fusebox and possibly remove it and inspect the circuit boards (not as difficult as it sounds).

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:23 AM
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Ignition coil is always hot and being switched to ground by amplifier, that's why you see power there, if you've got test light, hang it to coil + and - terminals and crank the engine, if flickers it is ok till this point if not, need to look from amplifier backwards to ecu

 
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:28 PM
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Hello all, had to do some remodeling projects so, she took a backseat for a while. I pulled the negative cable off of the frame in the trunk and found some corrosion. Cleaned everything and no change. Pulled the fuse blocks and pulled every fuse out. Everything looked and checked out OK. All wire connections looked good with no cracked wires, mositure, etc. To help the battery, I hook jumper cables from my van over to the Jag but still seemed sluggish on trying to start. As an afterthought, using the jumpoer cables, I hooked the battery from the van directly to the positive and negative cables in the Jag. Turned the switch and waitied for the system check to finish. Battery gage was showing almost up to the mark before 13 volts. Turned the key and everything electricial immediately dropped out without trying to start. I started the van and the gage went up to the right side of the mark before 13 volts. Turned the key and again everything electricial drop out without trying to start. Oddly though, when the Jag cables were attached to the battery and doing a normal jump, the car would turn over like it had been without starting. I have used this method on several American, Toyota and Mazda vehicles to check for battery issues but this is the first time on a Jag so, I am not quite sure what the electrial system is telling me when it drops out like this. Either there is a dead short somewhere or the negative cable has internal issues since I did have it turned back alittle to make sure it did not touch anything. Or, it is just a Jag thing and the system will not allow this type of connection to the electrical system. Any thought will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Mar
1993 Vanden Plas 4.0 L 94,000 miles
Was a daily driver

2014 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 L 89,000 miles
Now a daily driver
 
 
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