Okay. At the end of the week. Im going to start work on pulling my Transmition....

I have a question though. Maybe someone here can answer.

How tall is the tranny?.
In that, how high do I need to lift the car to get the bloody trans out?.

:-)

 

Assuming you are supporting the engine with a brace bar across the top, and leaving the under side af the floor "clear", the car up on "standard" ramps will suffice. Then the trans will slide out through the front of the car once on the floor.

If you need to slide it out the side of the car once dropped, then significantly higher would be required.

Yours is a ZF 4HP24 and is similar in basic dimensions to a TH400 I think. The TH400 I have sitting on the floor in the shed is 15 1/2" to the top of the bellhousing.

Of course you will have to add any jacks, trolleys or whatever you may have it sitting on once detached.

 

"beeauty!": :-)

Thanks.

Tomorrow is payday and Iv got my eyes on a nice lowprofile Jack.
Friday she will be going in the air.

My only worry is actualy "pulling" it loose.
I know how to unhook the drive shaft and slide that out.
Then support the Trans itself and slowly loosen the bolts.
Its removing it from the motor that perplexes me. From what Iv read, it should slide backwards slightly(with a little effort) off the motor. Then some cajouling of the torque converter is needed to get to the front of the housing.
From there its clear sailing.

But those specs help a great deal.

I abandoned the idea of stripping the transmition entierly infavour of just replacing the seals and gaskets and cleaning up and lubing the valves and springs. Pulling the entire things appart seems a little over the top and honestly. Unless I really "have" to... Im not sure it warrents the time/money/risk... lol.

 

I don't want to burst your bubble....but I think you will find that unless you strip and repair at least the "A" clutch assembly, then your front seal will just blow out again. There was a write up (with diagrams) in one of the articles that I posted previously.

So, if you are going to go to all the trouble of removing and dropping and then refitting the tranny, just to have to go through it ALL again later, I know what I would rather do (and did) It's a tough enough job doing it once, let alone twice!

Now, for the proceedure...

Tranny in Neutral.

You will need to get all four wheels off the ground...At least 1 foot. The Higher the better as you will need as much workspace as possible when it comes time to wrestle the monster back in. Make sure it is SECURELY in the air as you are going to be spending quite a few hours on your back underneath the beast and you don't want it falling down on you!

Work slowly and double check everything. When the tranny is in pieces make sure everything is spotless!

Ok...unbolt all the exhaust components from where it connects to the manifold through to the where it splits near the diff.

undo the transmission oil cooler lines and plug them to prevent dirt from entering

Undo the kickdown cable from the bellhousing

Undo the shift cable from the transmission (remember and note how it goes back)

Undo the driveshaft from the governor and hang the driveshaft off to the side (there is no need to remove it completely unless you wish to inspect/change the bearing towards the diff)

****This one relates directly to your question**** from under the transmission, there is an access hole (usually covered with some plastic mesh) in the bell housing. This is to access and undo the three bolts that hold the torque converter to the flywheel at the engine. you'll need to rotate the flywheel in turn to remove each one.

remove the cooling fan shroud from the radiator

***Now to remove the transmission.... you will need two jacks***

place a transmission trolley jack under the transmission as this will help you remove it when it is unbolted and free....place an easily adjustable jack under the engine sump this will let you "wind down" the engine and transmission so you can access the bell housing bolts. It will also stop the engine from falling to the floor and destroying itself and the Jag when the transmission is released!

Ok, place the jack securely under the tranny.... then remove the transmission mount....be careful here as the mount is very tightly sprung and you don't want to cop this in the mouth!... and then remove the 8 bell housing bolts... remember that the engine and transmission when together form a single structural unit held to the chassis in a triangular mount arrangement...two engine mounts and the transmission mount. As you lower the transmission, the engine will also drop on the engine mount pivot points, this is why you need jack SECURELY under the sump as well. You do not want the engine to drop when your hands are trying to get to the upper bell housing bolts or you may suffer a serious crush injury to your hands and fingers!!! it is also why you need to remove the radiator fan shroud.

Now, with all the bolts that hold the transmission bell housing to the engine undone and with the weight of everything now supported the tranny can be removed. With a bit of patience and a bit of wriggling, the tranny (and torque converter) will slide slightly rearwards and will be free! Just like removing an engine....go slow and steady and check everything as you go.....

Reinstalling is a reverse of this procedure and an absolute b!tch!

like I said, this is not a job for the fainthearted and if I had my time over I would remove the entire engine and transmission from the jag in one unit so I could have plenty of elbow room to work and inspect things. Especially the damn bell housing bolts...There ain't much finger room to remove and replace the upper ones near the firewall!!!

Good Luck

 

I forgot to mention that when reinstalling the torque converter (which I recommend having overhauled) make sure you prefill it with fluid.

It connects to the transmission with two lugs that will 'clunk' into place when it is seated correctly.

This is very important...make sure it is seated properly when bolting it back to the flywheel...do not, and I repeat, DO NOT try and 'pull' the torque converter to the flywheel with the bolts!!! just make sure it is flush to begin with.

 

before you unbolt the converter from the fly wheel mark the converter and flywheel (just paint a stripe on both).when re installin just line up the paint stripe.

 

I forgot to add that step Lumppy.... thanks for the reminder...although I did do this when I did my transmission...when I took my torque converter in for an overhaul, the kind bloke at the shop resprayed it to make it look pretty and painted over my alignment mark!!!

Maybe a punch or score mark instead was needed?

 

Yea, Im going to get some blue markey jell (know at work as "Smurf Jizz") for makring bits... Im going to make pretty much everything so I can get it all linned up properly during reinstall.

SO! Today I bagan work. Got her 22" off the ground and found that she has a very odd center of gravity. In that lifting the back rear, she started to pivot off the opposite side...

I got underneath and located the two drive shaft joins.
But which one would work better??.
Im thinking the one right behind the trans behind the mount (once the mount is removed after the trans is supported.. (read on for the "lol")?.

Which lead to my rather irritating discovery.... The Trans would need supporitng to remove that. But.... oops... my jack only reaches 15" not the 22" I need.
I minor oversight I know... but an important one. lol
Luckily, I have friends...

 

You're right....the centre of gravity, or should that be the stiffness of the chassis can cause a bit of wobbling when sending it skywards! Hope you have all four corners nice and secure.

And you're right again...you want to remove the drive shaft at the transmission end...

As for the jack... nothing a few well placed bricks won't fix.....just remember, what comes out must go back in!

 

Yea, thats why I stopped.
I considered the bricks for a moment and then realised that I would cause my self anoter headache. Yey, I got the beast free of the car... wait a moment, how do I slide it off these bricks?? and how do I slide it back "on" later???
But, I have the right jack now. :-)

As for jacking it up.
I think... I "think" I twisted the frame a little.
A small crack seems to have appered in the windscreen.... However, that could also have occured during the 25 mile tow from St Petersburg to Tampa.

So today begins the fun and after some considering of peoples comments ideas, well needed notes and such.. Im going to break it down into sections I can accomplish a day at a time. I think Id rather do little bits and remeber what I did. Than potentialy rush and cause issues. Smaller jobs = easier to plan and complete.
Besides, I have a month to get it all done... lol

 

Okay. Step one done.
Cooling pipes removed and inspected. Clean.. very clean. No sign of any sort of residue.
"kick down" which its not?... (the cable that runs upto the throttle assembly) disconected and free.
Linkage unhooked.
Exhaust "removed" and unhooked.*
System draining.....

Next step will be to remove the bolts holding the Torque converter.
I figure this will be easier to do now while the trans is still solidly attached to the vehicle. Once that rear mount is removed, theres going to be a dirty great jack in the way under the tranny.

So.. Free the torque converter bolts, support the Trans, remove the mount. Unhook and remove the drive shaft. Gentely lower the trans until I get get a hold on the bolts that connect the motor and trans. Support the motor. Undo the upper bolts, undo the lower bolts. Pull the trans off and bobs ya uncle.

My only troubling though for now is... putting it together again. Altough Im sure some wood shimms under the trany will help line it up with the motor again. Marks.. marks and marks...

* So I found that the exhaust was rusted through just infront of the Cat. So that section is just laying on the floor having been "ripped" out and will be replaced....

 

okay. so you cant undo the bolts for the torque converter before you pull it from the engine...
becaues you cant turn it while its still connected to the motor.. lol.

So....

Transmition supported fine.
My home made jack + support seems to be okay.

Rear mount disconected... Was a little surprised at the safety wire holding it on. I got to the 4th bolt and realised that this hunk of metal was about to fall on my face. So I proped it up with a bottle jack... then found the wire. :-)
Easiest way to remove that is to remove the spring plate from the transmition. So that was done.
(im putting bolts and screws back into holes as i go so they dont get lost)
Then I checked the drive shaft... Hehehe.
All 4 retaining bolts were loose!? Not dangerously, but still. However it made my job easier but Wow!...

Same as my discovery that the retaining bolts for the front shocks were also loose, after I noted about 1" of thread showing under the wheel arch... So that explaines the wierd rattle.. the washers were loose and bouncing about.

SO! Next up is to slowly lower the back of the Trans and find those two retaining bolts for the top of the bell to motor.

Thus far, Iv been a little surprised at the size of the bolts. One expected something larger perhaps.

Any comments warnings and tips are again... Very Welcome.. and anyone local offering advice gets a free Guinness when Im back on the road. LOL

 

Stop!

You will need to undo the torque converter bolts before you remove the bell housing bolts. Easily done by making sure the transmission is in Neutral and then turning the flywheel (it will turn, I promise)

Reason 1...because installation procedure is the reverse of the dismantling and you will need the torque converter installed on the transmission before bolting it all back together...do not try bolting the torque converter to the flywheel and then try installing the tranny..it won't seat properly

Reason 2... If you allow the centre shaft (that connects the converter to the tranny) to bear the weight of the transmission, you run the risk of it, and many other things bending...then you really will be scratching your head!

 

Huh.. okay.
Seems that the motor would prevent me from being able to turn it.
But we shall see.

Indeed. After a little study I did realise that while you could do it backwards as you say, you run the risk of bendage... Not good.

Okay. I located the three bolts and got them out. Was pretty hard turning the shaft though. But, a little sideways thinking and some grit in my mouth and I got it.

Now, onto sepperating the two components!.

QUESTION:
How many bolts unify the trans and motor?.

I have now located the starter though.. So thats a good thing. LOL

I found 2 on the topside that I can bearly get a finger on. Im thinking they are the worse offenders. Im going to leave it over night to think on.
But Im tihnking that jacking the trans up and going down behind the motor to get them might be the easiest approach. That then leaves the lower ones which look to be kinda easy to get to.

OMFG
Looking easy is one thing.
First bolt, 13mm top of the housing... Frozen solid.
No rust that I see. But wow its not moving.
Iv soaked it in Blaster, hammered the washer, applied two wrenches to get leverage... nothing.
Im going to giveit one more try with a blow torch to try and heat it a little see if I can loosten it that way... then.. its Hammer and chizzle time!! Ill just remove the bolt head and move on... :-\
Once the trans is out of the way I can remove the rest of the bolt and put in a new one... with some grease on it!

 

Now....there should be 8 bolts that hold the bell housing to the motor. Three of these will need to be accessed from the engine bay as you suggested and the procedure is correct....jack up the engine/transmission far enough that you have room to get to them....yes, there is not a lot of room and you will be cursing and swearing trying to get them out and back in again.

When you do get them all undone and the tranny is out.... to remove the torque converter, refit two of the long bolts halfway into the converter mounting holes and pull evenly on both bolts.

Then, make sure you have a nice clean workbench and get ready for the strip down! You might like to try and get a hold of the ATSG Manual before you go unbolting anything, inspecting, and replacing things. If you miss a screw or a bolt along the way you risk doing some serious damage. You will also be needing a good torque wrench because the tolerances need to be spot on.

 

son of a.......

So after three days of a combination of cussing, threats, swearing, pleading and ultimatly.. bargaining... A fried comes by and takes a look.
With a quick trip to sears (and $20 on a 9 peice wrench set in the process) "Pop" the bolt comes loose for him in minutes....

I say its the half gallon of PB Blaster Iv been soaking into it for the last 3 days. But then again, a fresh perspective and a new wrench might also have been the trick.

SO!
With that loose. I lowered the trans down and removed the Foam....
Er.. wait? Foam??... Isnt that flamable and toxic??....
And let the light in... The rest of the bolts are clearly visible from below and with a little careful lowering I can get to them all with my sockets!.. YEY!.
I just have to start from the top and work down. Jacking "Up" as I go so when the last few bolts are loosened the Trans isnt on a downward sloap and will rest on the jack.. Not slide onto my.... chest.

 

Good to hear you are making progress... and you found the foam! Yes, flammable and toxic but it helps keep everything nice and quiet inside the cabin!

I hope you have a second jack under the engine sump???? The last thing you want is for the engine to fall to the floor and take out your steering gear when the transmission comes loose!

 

Been following this on and off, but had a trans to change on a V12. Did NOT want to do it, but arm twisting and alcohol bribery changed my mind. Only condition was it is being done MY way or take it somewhere else.

Started Monday AM, engine and trans out in one unit, seperated on the floor (SAFE AS HOUSES), replacement trans fitted, engine bay washed out, radiator flushed, some other stuff tidied up that CANNOT be done with the V12 in its home, unit back in, and drove it out the driveway PM today (Thursday).

Just to clarify, i am OLD, disabled (more pins and screws in the spine etc than I remember, and walk real funny with 2 sticks), and I HATE working under cars (takes me forever to get down there, and then get back up again for the forgotten whatever), a real pain in the back hahaha. So I always do it this way, dont do too many these days, getting waaaay too old and grumpy for all this HARD work.

Getting to those bolts etc on a V12 is just plain DUMB, and I worked that out 20 years ago.

Anyway, your car, your choice, enjoy the experience.

 

Well said Grant... I couldn't agree more....

I did mine the hard way, it was only that I didn't have an engine hoist or otherwise I would have stopped at the first bell housing bolt and it would have made the transmission overhaul, and a whole host of other repairs, so much easier!!!!

After all, what good is a nice shiny cart when the horse has a broken leg! I'm glad to now be a member of the older and very much wiser brigade!

 

Dropping the motor as well just seemes like a huge chore.
Im not a mechanic either. Im a computer tech. To be honest, this is all totaly new to me. lol.
Ontop of all that Iv been going to work too. Which is irritating.
If I had a few days off I could probably have done it over 3 or 4 days.
But so far its been a fun experience.
Iv learnt a lot, studied a lot and burn some callories!.
Iv also fixed a few other bits on the car, like door handles! LOL
Pulled the seats out and been working with leather restore on them. But I think the drivers seat is beyond hope. The threading is breaking...

Looking at it all though.. Putting the trans back will be relativly simple and easy. Now I have everything mapped out, marked and noted.
Just wish I had a real garage, with the proper tools and wotnot. Would have been a lot quicker! hehehe