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Chevy conversion

 
  #21  
Old 03-05-2019, 03:57 AM
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Gary,
Here's the pics of the pan off my series 1 sbc car. I'll post pics of the mounts that came with it and the mounts/pan on the other car.









Icsamerica,
Oil Pan
For an oil pan I bought an ebay sheet metal pan(150-ish) and cut the sump off(too long and tall) and had a new sump fab'd up(free). Shallower with kick outs on both sides to make up for lost capacity. Also scored on a slightly used Accusump($200) for insurance. Probably don't need it, but I rather be safe. If that pan doesn't work, I bought a complete used Fbody pan($150). If I have to use it, I'll cut it to fit, pay someone to weld some plate to it. Just like the kits do. If not, sell it and re-coupe some cash from it.

Exhaust
I'm turbo'ing my car. I made my hot side(exhaust) with a combination of Corvette and truck manifolds(a set of each at $100 per set), steel tubing, pipe bends and v-bands.I planned on tacking it together and taking it to a shop to be finished. A friend offered to do it and I took him up on it. It's not pretty but with coating and heat wrap it'll be less ugly. I'm sure you know you can weld these manifolds with a mig or stick welder if you want. I've noticed majority XJ/ls1 cars on the net are using stock manifolds of some sort. There's at least 4 different styles to choose from. I would guess they mix and match with a little cutting and welding on the driver's side manifolds. I have a driver's side truck manifold laying around I'll see how it fits this weekend.

Accessory drive
I'm running the Corvette front accessory drive(craigslist $125/alternator included) with Ls Brackets Turbo A/C bracket for an R4 compressor($180). I was worried about clearance between compressor and fender well. I know the R4 compressor isn't great but it worked for clearance. It's no taller than an LS1/6 intake. They make them for truck and Fbody accessories. After getting it, it looks like there might be room for their Sanden set up. I went with Corvette set up due to concerns about clearance between fan shroud, turbo and accessories. It's tight, but works. No cutting of the cross member.

Intake
Used LS6($300) intake and cable throttle body($50). Bought the LS6 intake before going with the turbo. A used LS1 would work just as well for around a $100 used or a truck intake if it fits for cheaper.

Gauges
Why can't you run your stock mechanical or electric gauges? There are enough places to tap into to get oil pressure/temp and water temp on the block/heads/coolant hoses/water pump. Don't you do the same for an LT1? There's a tach output for electric tachs on the ecu with a lil bit of work to make it work. The speedo is a problem I admit. I will be using an Android app for that.

How much does a stock reworked LT1 harness/ecu cost vs the equivalent stock LS parts? It looks like about the same price. I'm going with Microsquirt Ls package because it comes with a base turbo tune for $400ish.

In my area salvage yard take out LT1's are more expensive than a 4.8 and 5.3's are the same price(LKQ). Not looking for a peeing contest, just from my perspective it's not that expensive for what you get if you do some research and are willing to do some DIY. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

Last edited by gboy; 03-05-2019 at 04:00 AM.
  #22  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:36 AM
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Turbo LS... very cool but not budget friendly for time or money as I'm sure you already know. Why would you suggest someone else go down this rat hole of kludgy fabrication and other untested mods with unknown results and open ended costs. Misery Loves company I'm guessing.

This approach takes too, long, costs too much and offers up questionable results. In the end, should you want to move on to something else you'll end up with a worthless science project. LT1 and other well done and clean projects have some sort of resale value. Solder on for yourself but to suggest someone else take the same approach is silly.

When it comes to budget Friendly, the LT1 is a good option becasue you can often get a complete car for $700 to $2200. Once you have a complete car you can reuse many parts from the radiator, hoses, wiring and you'll have drive shaft to start with. I found a 1994 Buick Roadmaster with a rusted frame for $700 on my local craigslist today. Problably not the car I would start with but there were many others to choose from under $2200. LT1's are a drop in with the Jag speciaties kit..., no oil pan cutting, sensor hole drilling or all the other little things that add up for time and money. For example the Jag 1/4 NPT oil pressure sender will work fine and screw right in to a LT1 with a 5$ 1/8 npt adapter found at your local hardware store.

Looks like an interesting project, Ive seen it before, but it needs some reconsideration. Probably should start you own thread too.
 

Last edited by icsamerica; 03-05-2019 at 09:43 AM.
  #23  
Old 03-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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Here ya go! UNDER $2000.00 everything included. Harness, PCM, MAF sensor, center dump manifolds too! This is just an example and would need 20$ VATS emulator to bypass the security system though. I'd use a 1994/1995 version or down grade this one. But the manifolds and completeness of this setup and its ability to drop in should be tempting for anyone looking to do this.

Life is short. funds are limited, Plan accordingly

LT1 = 300 Hp project in 3 weeks with OE levels of drive-ability and refinement.

.... or POTENTIAL 600HP you cant use with out major chassis mods, perhaps done in 3 years and all that is a big maybe if it ever gets done at all.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Corvet...oAAOSwti5cdF1b

 

Last edited by icsamerica; 03-05-2019 at 11:15 AM.
  #24  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:52 AM
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Default Clearing up some Jag-LS Details....

Hi all, this is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties and I have been following this thread occasionally for a while now. Youhave some interesting projects going on here....

Just to clear up some possible misinformation on the Jag-LS conversion itself, I wanted to pass along some details. This info is based on 200+ actual Jag-LS builds by customers and us over the years in XJ6 (S1-2-3) and XJS models...

1) LS Accessory Drive- aftermarket accessory drive brackets and parts are not required (unless you really want to spend the extra $$- so far, none of my customers have). There are several OE GM (very common) LS accessory drive sets that will fit the Jag chassis, all including the low mount AC. One of my design criteria in creating our kit was to make sure that GM parts could be used, and not only that, I designed for the most common LS accessory sets out there. This was to keep conversion costs low.

2) Oil Pan- the pan we like to use for the LS conversion is a factory based piece that sits no lower than the front crossmember. This pan by the way has been picked up by the aftermarket now so price is way down- I bought one for a customer overseas a month or so ago for $143 brand new. And since we did the initial design work some 10 years ago, 2 other aftermarket oil pans have become available that also fit our application.... On the factory style pan we do some modifications; the 2 aftermarket LS pans are a bolt in with no mods...

3) Exhaust Manifolds- like #1 above, I designed around standard GM (High flow- 400+hp range) exhaust manifolds. There are 2 choices for the XJ6 cars and one for XJS.

Don't be spooked by claims of high LS costs- if you take your time and become knowledgeable before opening your wallet, you can do a good conversion for a reasonable cost. And it would not be appreciably different in cost than an LT1 conversion. Remember, the newest LT1 out there is now 22 years old, so low miles versions are tough, really tough, to find. And that's a relatively small group of engines to choose from (only in 93-97 Camaro/Firebird, 92-96 Corvette, and 94-96 Caprice/Impala/Roadmaster/Brougham). The LS family is far more widespread and includes the 4.8-5.3-6.0 truck engines that GM has now fielded in the hundreds of thousands, at least.

I hope that clears up any misinformation.......

And one other note- that 1996 Corvette LT1 package above is not really a slam dunk for a Jag conversion. It would need:

1) Different oil pan and pick up as the Corvettes use a long sump oil pan that won't clear the Jag crosssmember (this is based on my personal experience....)

2) Exhaust manifolds will need to be changed- even though they look like the right shape, the left side will not clear the steering on any Jag except S1 or early S2 XJ6, and none of them if using a short tower steering rack.... (all late S2 and S3 XJ6 and all XJS)

3) Transmission tail housing needs to be changed to a version with a trans mount on it. Corvettes don't use a trans mount- they use a torque arm back to the diff

4) Wiring harness- the Corvette harness will not work as is on a jag application- it's far too short and would need to be lengthened to put the PCM in a safe spot (and if anyone has ever done that once you know you'll never do that again- in this case it would be 2 solders for each of some 80 wires.....). Or buy an aftermarket harness- that's not a giveaway

5) And the Optispark- even though I drove my own LT1 Jag XJSC for years with no issues, the internet is FILLED with stories of trouble with this type of distributor, used only on these engines...I'm sure many of these problems are owner induced (didn't fix a leaking water pump) but there are still plenty more.IOne company has even created a kit that uses LS ignition coils on the LT1 to lessen these problems. And they apparently have sold plenty of those kits...

Again, all purely informational- just to be sure everyone has the right info....

Questions????? Email or PM me...

All the best

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
 
  #25  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:15 PM
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Glad to hear from you, Andrew!! My LYT1 soldiers on. As I have an electric WP, the leak issue is largely eliminated.

Were I 20 years younger, I'd like to try an LS install. 90 in September!!!

OTH, good Jaguar platforms, SI.II, II or XJS are not as plentiful either!!!

That treatise is excellent. I suspect many will download it to save or to print as reference.

Thanks

Carl
 
  #26  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:39 PM
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The only "slam dunk" conversion is another good jag engine. LS is best, no doubt. They are better by every metric but if cost a concern... I maintain an LT1 offers the best bang for the buck by far. I simply posted the corvette LT1 as an example. An LT1 from F OR B body cars usually cost much less albeit with a 10% HP penalty. Here are some more examples. LS conversion oil pans are in the 150$ range, new oil pan and pickup for the LT1 is 50$, the corvette tail extension replacement is 40$. The corvette exhaust manifold issues is a 0$ problem if you can cut and weld or a 50$ if you cant. LS conversion kits costs more too. LS harness and programming costs MUCH more any way you look at it. Also the complexity of the LS leaves lot of opportunities for high performance but also for mis-configurations and other unforeseen costly mistakes. No matter which way you go, LS or LT1, there are many variations of the exhaust manifolds. Issues have to be solved but the cost here to is lowest on the LT1 items.

Keep in mind the B or F Body LT1's are 20 to 30 less HP but usually almost 1/2 the price. If you're not a speed demon like me....then the smoothness and torque are a great fit the the Jag driver who like high refinement for a low price. With the F / B body LT1 the 40$ tail problem and 50$ oil pan/pickup problem wont exist. It costs nothing to trim the Corvette Lt1's windage tray.

For me there is no debate, LS is better in every way at a price. LS may better resale value too. But if time, up front costs and simplicity is a your primary concert then the LT1 is a great option too.

 

Last edited by icsamerica; 03-15-2019 at 07:45 AM.
  #27  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:37 PM
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No argumenets- indeed the LT1 is less expensive than an LS counterpart. The point of my post wasn't really the cost but more to point out some misconceptions on the LS process, which I did. Now everyone should be clear on things like that.

Most interestingly, besides the cost of the engine itself, the overall cost of a conversion (other parts, services, and labor) using an LS vs an LT1 are essentially the same. We still have to do driveline work, build an exhaust, put in a proper cooling system, etc.,. And labor is similar. So essentially the only difference is the drivetrain cost.... There is no trade-off in simplicity either- GM fuel injection is GM fuel injection. Once you've done one, going to another is a snap. This comes from my personal experience- I've done both with my own hands.

The one main upside is that aftermarket support for the LS is several times the size of that for the LT1 and and that gap will widen into the future. That may very well drive down LS drivetrain costs as more LS variants are added to the mix (newer Displacement on Demand, VVT, and more)....

So in the grand scheme of a Jag owner considering LS vs LT1 the difference in drivetrain cost is not really that large a part to the overall cost of the project,....

My $.02
 

Last edited by JaguarSpecialties; 03-14-2019 at 03:42 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2019, 02:54 AM
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Gary,
Here's some pics from my SBC swapped series 2 oil pan and motor mounts.The pan appears to un-altered (no welding, but might have been reshaped). Might be an OEM item, No idea of part#/model it belongs to. The pan has three steps to it. Middle step is above the steering rack. Threw in a pic of the clearance between distributor and fender braces just in case you needed it. Car has really short air cleaner due to clearance. It might be 2" tall. Also pics of the tranny(TH400) mount for that car and of the motor mount for the altered pan I posted earlier. Hope this helps and sorry for taking so long getting them posted.








 
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:31 PM
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Aye. That LT1 and trans on the pallett brings back memories...

Carl.
 
  #30  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:10 AM
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Icsamerica,
In regards to total cost using the Jaguar specialties kit with a LT1/4l60e transmission. Do you have a ballpark number on what I will be looking at?
 
  #31  
Old 03-19-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 86XJSV12 View Post
Icsamerica,
In regards to total cost using the Jaguar specialties kit with a LT1/4l60e transmission. Do you have a ballpark number on what I will be looking at?
Total cost involved is going to depend highly on your labor costs and the price of your vehicle / donor. I'd budget 3,000 to 5000 for a well done LT1 if you follow Jag Specialties or Suncoasts directions. Since I've done it before I could reasonably pull of a conversion for 3k with working A/C. IF I patiently waited for the right donor and made it a DIY project. Here's a sample break down.

500.00 Conversion Kit with instructions
1500.00 Complete LT1 / 4L60E or Donor vehicle
85.00 New Optispark (RockAuto.com)
250.00 New 2 piece center bearing Drive Shaft, 1 piece would be $100 less.
60.00 Custom Power steering hose
100.00 Ramhorn Manifolds.
725.00 Stand Alone LT1 harness and PCM ready-to-run and programmed with for the right speedometer signal out.
100.00 Tachometer adapter, there are some 0$ options
600.00 Radiator, motor mounts, hoses, A/C lines, fresh fluids, misc items. (many can be sourced from donor if they are serviceable)
Labor and exhaust work not included and local prices vary.
---------
$3920.00 with out labor / exhaust. Ways to trim this price include selecting the right donor at a better price.

LS engine could easily be double that price and worth every penny with support mods. The the LS Conversion kits costs nearly double. Even the pedestrian LS 5.3 engine / transmission costs nearly double. Harness and PCM programming is 50% more and more complicated to get done. LS center dump manifolds, a double and so on...








 

Last edited by icsamerica; 03-19-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2019, 10:30 AM
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Default Good summary

Good summary on costs. If I might add a note or two:

1) A stand alone (aftermarket) harness is not mandatory- at least 90% of our customers use the original GM wiring harness that came with their engine and do the mods (remove unnecessary wire, etc.,.) to make it a stand alone type. That can be done by the end user using the factory shop manual as a guide. And for all the conversions ever done here we have never used an aftermarket harness....

I prefer the GM original wiring- personally I don't like the aftermarket as I find the documentation (wiring diagrams, if any) that come with them to be very poor. And over the years I have helped several dozen customers sort out wiring problems with their "plug and play" wiring that cost big $$..

2) Radiator, motor mounts, hoses, A/C lines, fresh fluids, misc items - $600. I think that total may be a bit on the high side. For example, the radiator we use is usually about $85 new and for the AC on an XJS we use a nearly stock LT1 AC hose assembly (details are in our manual) along with just one short custom hose. The rubber engine and trans mounts are $8-$10 each, hoses are a few bucks (we use off-the-shelf molded hoses, details again in our manual). And there are more just like this...

If anyone is interested, I documented a complete LT1-XJS conversion on our website some years ago, top to bottom. That car used a 6 speed manual trans (T56) but if you ignore the pedals and shifter, all else would apply to an automatic build as well. Have a look:

Jaguar Specialties (there are 5 articles total....)

One final point- although it is good to manage costs, doing one of these projects also requires a reasonable budget. Cutting corners with cheap alternatives usually doesn't work well in the long haul- you'll be back in there sooner than you think, and that second time at it will also cost you $$, so there goes any savings. Ebay is full of "converted" Jags, all done by owners without a reasonable budget and often not enough experience- and those cars sell for nothing because that's what they're worth. Unless you are uber experienced in these things (conversions, etc..) trying to make/do it all yourself usually takes much more time and more money as well. I learned all of this the hard way over the years- professional shops all understand this very well and they are glad to pay for a set of solutions that work with no fuss, no muss....

I hope that helps

Andrew


PS- And just to clarify, the LS kit is not double the cost of the the LT1 base version. The LS kit includes more so if you compare apples and apples (same total parts) they are approx $100 of each other.....
 

Last edited by JaguarSpecialties; 03-19-2019 at 10:36 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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I would add comments.

1. Use the Sun coast down pipes on an LT1 project. Nice work and fit just right and the price is very reasonable. Admired by the guy that did my exhaust.

2. I forgot if it was 6 or 8 hundred that I paid for the exhaust. Two cats and a H pipe back the Jaguar mufflers. Smog ref happy. I happy!!!

3. I used an aftermarket twin E fan kit. Specie not known., Nice shroud fit just right.
As an after thought, I might have used the donor car E fans. Staggered to fit ??

4. My after market market harness was a mistake. Much travail and $'s to get it right.
6. I used a new genuine GM OPTISPARK. Son's connections got it at a great price..

Carl
 
 
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