hi everyone, total newbie here. i've loved the series iii xj6 since i was a kid and may finally be able to buy one. however, i live in the city (boston) and don't know much about cars (much less maintaining or repairing one myself), so am looking for something as low maintenance, as possible. for context sake, the car would be driven semi-regularly (a couple times a week) and would either be covered or kept in an unheated garage in the winter.

recently, i found an ad on craigslist for a fully converted 1986 xj6 vanden plas (https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/ct...661394385.html) that i thought might be a good fit. the car was originally from new mexico. the seller got it in early 2000s and put in a lot work in rhode island over the following years. his whole story is laid out in the ad, but here's the gist of it (quoted from ad):

- rebuilt, blue-printed 350ci TPI engine and 700 R4 transmission from a 1987 corvette using Suncoast conversion kit.
- 1992 GM engine management computer from Camaro IROC, re-wired using Ron Francis Wiring setup (IROC and panel are mounted in trunk)
- custom oversize, multi-core radiator and a dual, heavy-duty, thermostatically controlled electric fan set-up.
- six KYB Sport Gas Shocks along with a set of four (Front & Rear) cross-drilled and ventilated rotors.
- all of the suspension bushings replaced with poly ones.
- custom made ported and polished intake manifold
- detailing of the engine compartment that included the removal of all of the emissions control components which, when the project was started, were required.
- complete set of period Coco Mats, including the trunk, custom made for me by CoCo Mats of Ft. Mill, SC.
- While the car was, for all intents and purposes, rust-free, I decided what rust there were to have it addressed. along with a complete re-spray of the car's original color. That required replacing the front and rear glass.
- the headliner was replaced and the entire leather interior being redone. New leather where needed, the rest all cleaned, buffed and re-dyed.
- custom Made High Performance Dual Exhaust System
- Pepper Pot wheels

i don't know what half of that stuff means and haven't had a chance to see it in person yet, but he lists the names of all the places that did the work so it seems verifiable. the asking price seems pretty high ($18k), but the re-built engine only has 4000 miles on it and, given my ignorance of all things cars, i'd be willing to pay a premium for reliability.

that being said, i was hoping to get some feedback on just how good/bad of a deal it is, what i should look for when i test drive it, and what i can reasonably expect in terms of lifespan for the car. i know conversions can be a bit controversial, and would also love to hear how this might compare to a restored or well-kept vehicle with original parts and low-mileage, in terms of expected reliability, maintenance and price.

anyway, would love any and all comments. my wife is probably only gonna let me get one of these things, so i'm hoping to find something that'll last

 

A fabulous tale, no doubt about it !!

Issues as to pricing.,Too much as I see it.

1. TPI is out dated. LT1 a lot better. And LS best yet.

2. Removal of emission stuff !!! Why? Most is passive as to performance and positive as to what we breather. And a limit of the market. Where, I live, can nt be registered as it is.

3. The guy's emotions are clear. I get it. But, elevate the price!!! In his eyes, but not those f the market. I get it. Lots of money tears, pleasure in my lump. Do I realize it is worth less than I think ? In a realistic moment, yup!!

Carl

 

Oh boy. I agree with Carl. The engine is old technology and the price is wildly too high. If everything checks out maybe worth $10k. My car is very similar down to the same pepperpot wheels and mine was way south of $10k. The engine may have 4000 miles on it but, let's say, rear brakes, how many miles on them and it runs around $3k to get them rebuilt. If the guy that did the conversion and fixed everything is a real genius..... maybe. But odds are he was an average guy and made many mistakes that are not evident yet.

But the biggest concern is that you are new to the game and you said you want a semi-regular driver. In the wintertime? Slush and snow, going somewhere you really have to be there on time (like to work), etc? The ideal buyer of this car is someone who won't drive it in bad weather, has lots of money and patience, a good mechanic to help, and most importantly a dependable modern car to drive everyday.

Yes, it is a beautiful car and looks very interesting. But there are lots of other cars just as nice that are $10k or less. Good luck to you but take your time, learn as much as you can and then you will know (or have better odds) of finding the right car for you and your family. If you buy a money-pit you will forever be soured on Jaguars. But find the right one and you will be in love for life.

 

Spot on responses by Carl & YS3.
Having $18k (or more) invested does not equal its value to you.
$18,000 for an all original pristine 4000 mile XJ6 might be fair.
He obviously did a fine job on the conversion and I commend the owner for his workmanship, patience and attention to detail.
But he's not asking me, you are. Therefore I'm looking out for your best interests and recommend that you continue your search, or ask him to knock $8-10k off the price.

 

$18,000 is not a lot of money for a well executed and well documented XJ6 (ie how the conversion was done) V8 conversion..
For all the experts who have never pulled a Jag engine / trans and installed the GM v8,...you are in for a rude awakening.
There is one hell of a lot of planning, engineering and getting EVERYTHING to work, as it should (no exceptions), and absolutely no "rats nest" of errant wires going nowhere.
If you have a converted XJ6 that you personally did , and you enjoyed working on your conversion, for 5 - 10 bucks an hour,... then maybe 5-6000 dollars is what you need to get,.. to get rid of the botched half finished swap. Personally I would be very reluctant ( if at all) to even consider selling my XJ6 with GM 350 /700r4 for 18G.
A full bare metal respray will run you 8-10,000 alone, then there are new tires, wheels, rebuilt suspension, refurbished brakes, new exhaust, wiring, EFI computer install,..not to mention the time taken to gather all the bits and pieces and a coherent plan of action for the conversion. The key piece for the conversion is documentation - all available to a potential buyer by category on a thumb drive with diagrams and photos of the swap as it happened. And extra parts ? In my case, boxes and boxes of hard to find items (ie. original antenna motor complete), numerous gauges, numerous interior panels in correct color,.. Brand new complete VDP interior door panels with wood trim - in perfect condition,.. newly refinished burled wood work, to include dash / switch panel / ski slope,..genuine sheepskins (all 4 seats) Momo steering wheel, Nakamichi CD400 stereo system, new door rubber all around, new windscreen, POR 15 on the interior floors under the carpet under padding - full length of the car, new original carpeting, no holes or tears in upholstery, headliner still taut and not sagging and so much more.. all the sweat and effort is substantial. and the result is everything works...
I collected a lot of parts for the car - extra steering rack, numerous TBI units / and several GM wiring harnesses and outboard rear brakes from a 2001 Xj8 - soon to be installed.
Not everyone will have an interest in this type of car but for those who understand and appreciate what goes into a proper conversion..

 

Hi Desmundo,

Welcome to the forum.

No one has addressed the opening paragraph of your post.

These 'most modern of antique motor cars' as our Oracle Doug rightly quips ably describes the nature of these lovely beasts.
These are not set and forget automobiles - with or without American engine transplants.
The Series 3 XJ6 was built in an era when car reliability in general meant that more often that not you would get to wherever you were going.
To own one of these is to acknowledge ongoing tinkering, fettling, frustration and sometime shaking / scratching of the head working out just what it is that doesn't want to comply with your wishes of proceeding today.
In running one of these as a semi daily driver (mine is a daily driver) you need to be in tune and aware of different / weird un normal sounds, noises, vibrations and manorisms precluding a near future reliability issue.
If you are not used to vehicles which need constant care, maintenance and compassion, then just leave the ownership part as a dream because it will be shattered pretty quickly when something does need attention which you missed and leaves you stranded in the dark on the side of an unlit back road in the middle of a cold and nasty mid winter storm waiting for AAA to send out a tilt tray to recover you and your gorgeous looking non running car.

Don't get me wrong, I love these cars and I highly recommend them, even as daily drivers like mine, HOWEVER, what mechanical / electrical jobs I can't do due to time, space and available equipment considerations, means that my local Jaguar trained mechanic (and he did his apprenticeship with these XJ6's in the 80's) does work on my car from time to time to keep it in reliable daily driver condition (in the context of a modern turn key set and forget appliance). And I'm talking preventative maintenance.
Just my two bobs worth,
Cheers & Good luck,
Nigel

 

I agree Nigel, I run mine as a daily driver and always looking out for sounds or mannerism's that are not normal. But if you are going to drive an old car it is par for the course.
But I still listen for that in my late model Jeep and can usually tell when its not happy by sound or feel.

 

My earlier post might have caused some misunderstanding. I am a huge fan of using cool old cars for daily use. I drive my S3 everyday that (a) no precipitation forecasted and (b) the roads are clear and dry. We even drove a pristine '72 Cadillac cross country from Ohio to California. But the original question/post indicated the car was to be driven in the Boston area. For those of you who have never been, winters are brutal. Where I live they regularly put salt on the road to melt snow and ice. Slush up over the tops of your boots, it's dark when you go to work and it is dark when you come home. That is the reality of a daily driver in the Northeast. Please drive and enjoy your Jaguar as much as you can, but please, don't drive it on the day described above.


Also, someone disagreed with my comment that the CL ad car was not worth $18k. His point was that it costs that much to build a top notch conversion car. Absolutely it costs that much (or more) to build a nice car. Is the car in the ad worth $18k on the open market? In my opinion, no.

Jeff

 

thanks everyone! i really appreciate your help

i should have been clearer earlier. i don't intend to drive the car in the snow/slush or even regularly to the office (maybe if we ever move back to san diego...). we have another modern car that my wife uses for her commute, but my work is only 2 miles from the house and i take the bus. the jag would just be for weekend dates and if i have random errands to run during the week. if i shouldn't take it out during the winter at all, i could also just not drive it. but it would be kept outdoors under a cover or, at best, in an unheated garage, so it'd still be exposed to the elements in some fashion. i don't mind taking it to the mechanics every so often. however, since i don't know much about cars or mechanics, i'm afraid of falling into a money-pit and am looking for something a little more turn-key.

everyone seems to agree that the seller invested more than 18k into the car, and that for me to go out and fully restore or convert a car myself, it'd be even more. but since there's still some inherent risk, everyone (except for alyn) also agrees that this vehicle isn't worth anywhere close to that. so i guess the question becomes, can i reasonably expect to find a closer approximation to a turn-key series iii, and if so, what would it look like and how much should i expect to pay, both upfront and year-to-year in maintenance? if there's no such thing, can i get closer with an xj40 or x300? i've always preferred the series iii, but would be open to those options as well

thanks again everyone!

 

Yes. It won't be perfect, but does it really have to be? Are you planning on entering it into a concours show, or driving it? Well, concours is out since it's lumped, so you might as well drive it!

Ads and what is available will dictate price; expect around $10,000; I see a lot of nice looking (in the ads anyway) versions for $7k-$8k. Maintenance costs...can vary from $0 to $2000 annually.

They're all "older" vehicles and subject to maintenance. Of course, so are newer models-check out the other forums here! Pick your poison! I don't know enough about the XJ40 or the X300 to give any sound advice.

 

Yup! They're all getting pretty old now; the youngest X300 is 21 years old.

X300s in particular have a good reputation but, still, age and miles eventually take a toll. The gloss wears thin.

I drove an X300 for several years. Great car and many improvements over the older Jags but, still, it was by no means trouble-free.

Any older/quasi-classic car takes some owner commitment to keep on the road....especially as as daily driver

Cheers

DD

 

 

To add to the above opinions; My car looked pretty good when I first saw it, the Seller having sunk in excess of $30,000 into it ($6000 in leather alone) about 20 years before I got it (I have receipts). By the time he decided to sell it, he was only asking a fraction of his "investment." The car had been listed for some time, he had lowered the price twice, and we offered only a fraction of that (which in hindsight he accepted too readily), thinking we had scored a dependable, reliable classic that wouldn't probably need a lot of work for a long time.

HA!!

"Long time" lasted just over a year when we discovered the driver floor was rotted out (front passenger floor not far behind), it needed a Full brake job (including master, booster, hoses, all 4 wheel calipers and park brake pads), and that it would drive a Lot better with a full front suspension re-bush. Then we put in a Series 3 rack because the original was starting to, um, not respond to right turns at low speeds such as city driving. First time that happened was a little disconcerting.

Long story short, after 10 months' work and a Lot more money "invested" I have the reliable daily driver I thought I was getting in the first place, one I'm confident to take anywhere any time with a minimum of preparation.

And to get there we only Almost bought the car again, and that was doing all our own work!.

There's always a reason someone wants to sell a pretty classic, sometimes more than one reason. Usually it's not simply because the garage is too small. Having been bitten once, I would be Very hesitant to fork over $18K for a car that old, I don't care how nice it looks.

On the other hand, when one is buying Nostalgia, the sky is the limit.
(';')

 

Yup! My X300/XJR was still running like a watch at 171,000 miles when I sold it.

But even the oldies will soldier on if well cared for. I sold my first Series III at 141,000 miles and last I heard from the buyer,,,,many years ago.... it had 175,000 and he had just finished a 6500 road trip with no problems!

But durability isn't quite the same as being 'trouble free'

Cheers
DD

 

Now it sounds like you are on the right track. Asking prices and selling prices are wildly different. I suggest start by googling "Jaguar xj6 buyers guide". There are a lot of really good articles out there. As memory serves, Doug wrote one of them. Look for a car that has been well maintained over its entire life. The very best scenario is a car that is a one owner, or few owners anyway. A rich dude that always took it to the dealer and told them to do what ever needed doing. Or, next best, been owned for several years by an avid hobbyist (like most of us here) and they have sorted everything out.

I love your turn of phrase "what would it look like"? In my case, I too was a newbe, I found a nice old THB v8 series 3. Worn but all there, most of the electricals worked, drove nice and was safe for $6500. I have not had any major problems but have had a blast fixing, maintaining, working on cosmetic things, etc. Like Elinor, I feel 100% confident to jump in it and go. Maybe around $8k invested to date. My other car is a glorious 2007 Vanden plas I bought from the original owner described above. Burled walnut picnic trays in back. Wonderful smell of leather. Lots of power, 155 mph top speed. I paid top dollar but it had very low mileage and was immaculate. I paid $17k for that and it is like a new car.

One note: series 3 cars leak water unless all the windshield and back window seals have been replaced which is a big expensive job. A car cover is not going to keep the water out and you will wind up with the floor rust Elinor described. My series3 has leaky seals but minimal rust, it is always garaged and I only drive it on dry days so no problem.

Do your research, find a nice car at a reasonable price from someone you think was a good custodian of the antique car. Jump in and have a ball. And, oh yes, study the Forum for help along the way.

 

Friend of mine bought a (documented 30k mi) low miles '84 from a "Classic Investment Car" dealer against my stern warnings. He said, but it has $30k worth of service receipts (since new), it's been totally rebuilt, it's like a new car! (the car was about 12 years old at the time). My logic was that the car was new in the first place and it had been in the shop much more than it had been driven. Bought it anyway, I don't think he had put 500 miles on it before it was in the shop with the head off.
Next thing I know he has a souvenir paperweight piston with a hole in it. He got it fixed again and parked it in a barn and it is still there to this day, prob 20 years... He won't sell it and won't drive it, "It looks just as good sitting there as it does at the shop and doesn't cost me any money"

There's a lesson there...

 

Oh, and one more thing. Craigslist has some gems but a whole lot of flaky stuff. Go on line to Hemmings and there will be dozens of nicer cars. Seems like they always have some in the Northeast. A lot of them are concourse level with prices to match but there are a lot of drivers as well.

Also, go to Bring A Trailer.com I would never buy from an auction sight unseen but you can go back and find the details of past sales. Tons of details and tons of photos and then dozens and dozens of knowledgeable questions and comments. And then you can see what they actually sold for. Great research tool. They also have a scatter chart of the selling prices over time so you can see the market trends, ranges, etc.

 

thanks so much, everyone! this has been incredibly helpful.

i think i assumed that because the seller put so much money into the car, that meant it wouldn't need more work going forward. that may very well be the case, but it also may not. and i think the underlying issue is that i probably hadn't done enough research to know the difference. from reading this forum and stopping into a local jag mechanic today, i'm slowly getting the hang of it and learning what to look for.

will keep looking for the one on craigslist, hemmings, etc.. just found a couple promising xj40s that i'll shoot over to that forum to ask about. thanks again!