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Hot start issue/ No AC/ Shuts down when hot/ Acceleration from a complete stop

XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Hot start issue/ No AC/ Shuts down when hot/ Acceleration from a complete stop

 
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:42 PM
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Default Hot start issue/ No AC/ Shuts down when hot/ Acceleration from a complete stop

Please HELP!!! Even if you know only about one of the problem please tell me what you know!!!

I am suspecting that there might be two or even three intermittent problems with the issues I am having, but my hope is that everything has one cause.

1. The car does not start when it is hot, that is NOT when the coolant temperature is in 90s, but when the temperature under the hood is hot. I have to pop the hood, wait for about 10 minutes and it will start right up.

I have never seen or heard the aux fan working.

The main fan starts as soon as the ignition key is turned to start (not sure if this is normal). Also when I tried rotating the fan after shutting the engine off when hot, it rotated infinitely and did not stop. I saw few posts related to this as a way to check for a problem, but don't really know how to fix it.

When I start the car cold there is a squeaking belt noise that lasts for few minutes and goes away.

2. The car also shut down when driven for about an hour with heavy traffic, right before it shut down the battery light kept coming on and off. Another time it shut down when hot without the battery light coming on. My guess is that is all because of overheating and I am not driving the car for long periods any more until the fan problems are fixed. Am I right in that the fan problem caused the car to shut down?

3. The AC does not work. It will simply blow the same temperature of air that's under the hood, may be a little cooler.

4. Seldom, even when the car is not hot, I will have acceleration problems when trying to move the car from a complete stop, feels like fuel distribution issue. If I press on gas too hard or too weak the car will shut down. Have no idea what the cause might be. Please help.

I hope that everything here is connected and I can get things fixed and not bleed too much money.

THANKS!!!!!!!!
 
  #2  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 85xj6iii View Post
I have never seen or heard the aux fan working.
Here's a diagnostic checklist for the aux fan (the one in front of the radiator)

Aux Electric Cooling Fan Checklist, Series III

The main fan starts as soon as the ignition key is turned to start (not sure if this is normal).



Please clarify exactly what you have. A 1985 XJ6 should have one belt driven fan (main fan) and one electric fan (aux fan).

Obviously the belt driven fan will spin whenever the engine is running...but being belt driven the ignition key being turned to 'start' doesn't specifically enter in.



Also when I tried rotating the fan after shutting the engine off when hot, it rotated infinitely and did not stop.


The fan clutch needs to be replaced (this would be the belt driven fan)



When I start the car cold there is a squeaking belt noise that lasts for few minutes and goes away.



Have you examined the belts? Are any of them loose?




2. The car also shut down when driven for about an hour with heavy traffic, right before it shut down the battery light kept coming on and off.


Possible alternator problem, perhaps related to a loose drive belt?



Another time it shut down when hot without the battery light coming on. My guess is that is all because of overheating and I am not driving the car for long periods any more until the fan problems are fixed.

What is your temperature gauge reading?




Am I right in that the fan problem caused the car to shut down?

Maybe, maybe not




3. The AC does not work. It will simply blow the same temperature of air that's under the hood, may be a little cooler.


Have you had the freon checked?




4. Seldom, even when the car is not hot, I will have acceleration problems when trying to move the car from a complete stop, feels like fuel distribution issue. If I press on gas too hard or too weak the car will shut down. Have no idea what the cause might be. Please help.


The 'could be' list is pretty long. Is the ducting between the Air Flow Meter and the throttle body secure and in good condition?



I hope that everything here is connected and I can get things fixed and not bleed too much money.


Too soon to say!



Cheers
DD
 
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85xj6iii (09-13-2014)
  #3  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 85xj6iii View Post
1. The car does not start when it is hot, that is NOT when the coolant temperature is in 90s, but when the temperature under the hood is hot. I have to pop the hood, wait for about 10 minutes and it will start right up.


When the car is in 'no start' mode have you checked for spark? That's a good place to begin the search

If it lacks spark suspect the coil or the ignition module. Both are known to give problems and more likely to do so when heat is involved.

Have you inspected the wiring to/from the distributor, coil, and igntion amplifier? Wiring in this area tends to get brittle with age and can short out against the metal engine parts.

Cheers
DD


Cheers
DD
 
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  #4  
Old 09-13-2014, 01:35 AM
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the no-start-when-hot symptoms seem related to the Ignition Amplifier, a little black box made by Delco/GM located hanging near the front, passenger side of the engine.

if the engine Fan rotates without stopping, the Fan Clutch is bad.

if the Auxiliary Fan does not come ON, the Red Relay mounted on the driver;s side, top of radiator, could be bad, or the Auxiliary Fan Fuse, located in the fuse box near the brown plastic radiator coolant tank, could be blown. Check the fuse first. There are 5 fuses in that fuse box, the 5th fuse is for the Aux. Fan.

the belt squeak could be a not-tight-enough belt.
 
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:30 PM
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Thanks everyone! I will post more info as I work on those items.

Doug:

The main fan rotates when cranking; I now know that it is normal. (sorry about the confusion).

The temperature gauge is around 90. Used to overheat, but I recently flushed the coolant and it is fine now.

I am ordering the fan clutch right now, which fan clutch would you recommend, according to the site they are both compatible with a 1985 xj6.

More Information for HAYDEN 2665

More Information for FOUR SEASONS 36733
 

Last edited by 85xj6iii; 09-13-2014 at 11:42 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2014, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose View Post

if the Auxiliary Fan does not come ON, the Red Relay mounted on the driver;s side, top of radiator, could be bad, or the Auxiliary Fan Fuse, located in the fuse box near the brown plastic radiator coolant tank, could be blown. Check the fuse first. There are 5 fuses in that fuse box, the 5th fuse is for the Aux. Fan.
The fuse seems to be fine, do you know what kind of relay will work, I am finding tough time finding one.

Doug suggested "A typical 'Bosch Style' accessory relay with the usual 30-85-86-87-87a terminal designations" in another post, I want to make sure that it works for a 85 xj6.
 
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:06 AM
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I know the Napa ar462 are good.....they are real cheap....I keep a couple handy...the genuine red unit is expensive ($100 bucks or so),I have one but it is in my parts "bin" for future use..... I'm using the ar462 in for the aux fan.

Rob.
2006 X Type Sport Wagon.
1987 XJ6 Daily driver.

 
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  #8  
Old 09-14-2014, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 85xj6iii View Post
I am ordering the fan clutch right now, which fan clutch would you recommend, according to the site they are both compatible with a 1985 xj6.

More Information for HAYDEN 2665

More Information for FOUR SEASONS 36733

Either brand should be fine

Cheers
DD
 
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2014, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 85xj6iii View Post
The fuse seems to be fine, do you know what kind of relay will work, I am finding tough time finding one.

Doug suggested "A typical 'Bosch Style' accessory relay with the usual 30-85-86-87-87a terminal designations" in another post, I want to make sure that it works for a 85 xj6.

There are many brand names. Here's the NAPA/Echlin 462 as mentioned. This type of relay is virtually generic. If NAPA doesn't have one some other outfit will. It'll look like this:

NAPA AUTO PARTS

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:28 PM
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Some updates on my progress... I am trying not to give in to everyone telling me to sell the car. I will try to write everything that has happened because there might be things that should flag an issue to which I would be ignorant to. Thanks everyone.

1. The acceleration problem from a complete stop seems to be solved. As Doug suggested ducting between the Air Flow Meter and the throttle body was not secure.
a. Although after tightening the hose clamps I felt the power she had, it still acts weak from time to time when accelerating from a stop. Only one time the car had shut down after a pop/ farting noise coming I think from under the hood.

2. Ordered the fan clutch but have not changed it as this is not a priority for the upcoming cold winter.

3. The squeaky noise was a loose AC belt. When I tightened it, she would not start. It felt like not enough [electric?] power to turn the pulleys. The AC pulley would not rotate until the belt slipped whenever I loosened it. I just cut the belt, it was in terrible condition with lots of cracks, I am planning to change all of the belts.
a. Any tips for changing all of the belts? How do I get to the alternator belt, from the bottom or top?

4. The hot start issue also seemed to be gone, perhaps due to removing the AC belt which made it harder to rotate and securing the air duct.
a. However, twice in the morning I had a COLD start problem. Sometimes there is no crank just ticking sounds, I think it is a starter issue, or may be just not enough electric power. At the same time, when I would try starting again, the starter would work, she will crank but as soon as I release the key it will shut off (again I think fuel distribution problem). (BTW right tank fuel line has a leak, so it runs only on the left tank)

i. I bought the voltage and alternator tester that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket, very rarely when driving the alternator light will come on.
ii. Whenever I shut her off the voltage in the cigarette lighter is around 10.4. When driving it ranges 13.6-14. Is this normal?

5. Changing the relay for the aux fan did not solve the problem. I havn't had time to troubleshoot the issue.

6. I think some of my coolant is disappearing slowly, very rarely I can see white smoke when idling on P or N.

And yes, I changed all of the spark plugs.
 
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 85xj6iii View Post
after a pop/ farting noise coming I think from under the hood.


Which usually suggests lack of fuel



3. The squeaky noise was a loose AC belt. When I tightened it, she would not start. It felt like not enough [electric?] power to turn the pulleys.


You mean the engine wouldn't start after tightening the belt?

Not really sure what you mean here




a. However, twice in the morning I had a COLD start problem. Sometimes there is no crank just ticking sounds, I think it is a starter issue, or may be just not enough electric power.

Begin by looking for poor connections at battery, starter relay, etc. Or weak main ground under the engine.



At the same time, when I would try starting again, the starter would work, she will crank but as soon as I release the key it will shut off (again I think fuel distribution problem). (BTW right tank fuel line has a leak, so it runs only on the left tank)


Hot wire the fuel pump and see if she stays running. Post back if you need directions.



[quote] ii. Whenever I shut her off the voltage in the cigarette lighter is around 10.4. When driving it ranges 13.6-14. Is this normal?[/quote


Sounds good to me




6. I think some of my coolant is disappearing slowly, very rarely I can see white smoke when idling on P or N.

Are you topping off each time? If so, are you filling the brown tank more than halfway? If so, stop. Wait a few days and see if coolant level stabilizes

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:03 PM
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[QUOTE=Doug;1074827]Which usually suggests lack of fuel







You mean the engine wouldn't start after tightening the belt?

Not really sure what you mean here







Begin by looking for poor connections at battery, starter relay, etc. Or weak main ground under the engine.







Hot wire the fuel pump and see if she stays running. Post back if you need directions.



ii. Whenever I shut her off the voltage in the cigarette lighter is around 10.4. When driving it ranges 13.6-14. Is this normal?[/quote


Sounds good to me







Are you topping off each time? If so, are you filling the brown tank more than halfway? If so, stop. Wait a few days and see if coolant level stabilizes

Cheers
DD
Thanks again Doug, you are the first to help.

I meant the engine would not crank when I tightened the AC belt. As soon as I would loosen it, it would start.

I need directions for hot-wiring the fuel pump (when should I do it? whenever engine does not start?)

Initially I filled the expansion tank up to the bottleneck as the maintenance handbook suggested and I topped it off few times. Now it is about halfway where the two parts of the tank come together. I am not topping it off anymore and will be monitoring. Does it automatically stabilize the level?

"Begin by looking for poor connections at battery, starter relay, etc. Or weak main ground under the engine." Thanks will check those things and update the post.
 
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:47 AM
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the ac belt issue sounds like a locked compressor! or at a minimum a really tight one!
 
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:49 AM
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Bypassing fuel pump relay......

The relay is on the firewall. It's the one with white, white/green, white/purple, and black wires.

Unplug the relay from the socket

Look at the socket and observe which contacts go to the white/green wires. Using a jumper wire apply 12 volts to one of the white/green wires. You should hear the pump run. If you don't hear the pump then apply 12 volts to the other white/green wire. You should hear the pump run.

With your jumper wire in place and the pump running, try starting the engine. If it now stays running when you release the key then you know there's a problem with the fuel pump control circuit.

If the engine stills dies when you release the key then you know the problem is not related to the fuel pump control circuit.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:06 PM
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Default Start issue fixed

Just a delayed update on the start issue:

I have fixed the issue by installing a new battery.

With the old one, the voltage in the cigarette lighter would read around 10.4 with the engine off, when cranking would drop to around 7-8 for a split second and when driving it would range.

With the new battery the lowest it ever fell after not driving for a week was 12.4 and the car starts right up every time I try.

I have not dealt with the other issues yet (aux fan and the main fan clutch...)
 
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:45 PM
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Aux fan problem is most likely the thermo switch at the lower right rear part of radiator. Touch the two wires together and with ignition on, aux fan should be on.
 
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:05 AM
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Oh, wow, a bunch of issues. some related, some not so much.


1. The AC compressor is locked. One fix only is likely, get another.


2. Old belts re glazed. Not much to do, except change them.


3. The ignition amplifier, as a lot of electronic stuff is heat sensitive. protect it. if that doesn't work, replace.


4. The aux fan is just that. Usually kicks in after shut down to reduce rising temps. I think popping the bonnet would do the same, even if not as elegant.


But, it is a simple circuit, relay triggered by heat sensor.


Good luck.


Carl
 
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