Hello All, haven't been on for a while but I have been keeping tabs on a few threads.

My S1 has been running well with no real issues other than the Tacho needle jumping around while the outside air temp has been cold (not the engine temp). If the car had been parked out in the sun all day, the car would start fine and the Tacho needle was stable.

A week ago, the car started to misfire slightly after a short journey, as in 4 km into an 8 km journey. It was definitely ignition related as it would cut in and out intermittently, but run great when the misfire was gone.

Yesterday morning I jumped into the car with the outside air temp sat at around 5 deg C. I started the car on the choke and she settled down to a fast idle. I went back inside the house to grab an ice scraper to remove the frost from the windscreen, but when I returned, the car had stalled.

I tried to restart and the engine leapt into life, but then died after a few seconds. I tried to restart again and the engine just turned over with no sign of firing. I popped the bonnet to check for something obvious, but nothing could be seen.

I tried to start the engine one more time, but the engine started and died again after a few seconds. I left the car at home and got a lift to work.

Once at home I found a wiring diagram and checked voltages with the
ignition switched on. This is what I found:

Ballast Input: 11.67v
Coil Input: 6.1v
Coil output: 1.2v

Again I tried to start the car, but this time she fired up and settled to a fast idle before I reduced choke and left the car running at a steady 700 rpm. Not once did the misfire manifest itself?

Tomorrow is another day.

Any advice appreciated.

 

Welcome back Warren.

I am thinking condensation has crept into the HT post of the coil or cap. Then during the nice sunny Sydney day it dries out sufficiently to not cause an issue.

Those voltages are fine from my memory with points ignition systems. The 11.67 is a tad low, but if that is the same as across the battery, sweet.

Only other memory stabbing item is the condensor inside the dizzy, may be tired and earthing intermitantly.

just had a thought, scary I know.

Some S1/2 had the fuel pump relay being earthed via a "reverse" oil switch.

As in:
NO oil pressure
NO earth
NO fuel pump.

Those switches were notorious for going AWOL, and I simply earthed that relay wire under a nearby screw.

 

Hi Grant,

Thanks for the reply, I think you may be right. For what it's worth I'll just change the Points to rule them out and maybe even treat the old girl to a new Coil!

I've improved, added extra and even repositioned earth points on many makes of car, French, German and English, so your relay mod seems like a logical move.

I'll pull the HT Leads and check for the presence of moisture.

 

The misfire had been gone for a while and then I went way for 4 weeks and on returning the car was misfiring again. It would cut in and out and then clear as the engine got warmer.

This fault seemed to get worse a few days ago as it sounded like two cylinders weren't firing and this time they didn't get better. I pulled the number 5 cylinder HT lead and nothing changed, other than the shock it gave me! So this points at a fault on this cylinder.

I pulled all of the plugs to check colour and they all looked pretty good except for number 4 (not 5)? I cleaned all of the plugs and refitted them. I fired up the engine and there was no change.

I pulled all the leads and dried out the Dizzy cap and the area around the points and condenser. Once fired up, again there was no change? This doesn't tell me if the Condenser is earthing out, but I'm wondering if I might have a sticking valve?

Today I drove to work and enjoyed some improvement. The car idled roughly on 5 cylinders, but started to improve over the 20 min journey. On the drive home the car ran on 5 cylinders for the first 5 mins and then ran smoothly on 6 for the rest of the journey home!?

I'll see how she runs tomorrow...

 

Mmmmm.

The fact it sorts itself eventually, and appears to be single cylinder related may be a sticking valve, and usage may well sort it.

Some injector cleaner (I know its carbied) will do no harm, even an "overdose", as most of those bottles treat 80ltrs of fuel. I usually tip one in with about 20ltrs.

Also in no particular order:

Hair crack in the dizzy cap.
Leads crossfiring, usually an old age thing.

The condensor would NOT be a cylinder specific fault, it would affect the whole system. Likewise the coil, it would affect the system, not one cylinder.

A compression test, dry, then wet, will assist diagnosis.

Then camcovers off and tappet clearance check, just because would be next.

 

Thanks for the reply Grant. What brand Injector Cleaner have you used? The are several on the market, but you can't tell which ones work and which leave a little to be desired?

 

Agreed.

Much of a muchness.

I use Nulon, coz its cheap at work, but Valvoline is OK.

Basically whatever is on special will suffice. I reckon it will be an exhaust valve giving grief, coz if its an inlet valve, the compression spitting back thru the carbies would be evident.

 

Ok, I've chucked a bottle of Wynns Injector Cleaner ($10 Kmart) into the LH Fuel Tank which is about half full (25-30ltrs). I'll report back on if things improve. In the mean time I'll order a new Dizzy Cap, Rotor Arm and some HT Leads to rule them out too.

I might even top her up with some 98 and another bottle of Wynns IC just to give her a fighting chance!

 

Good idea on the 98 octane. thats all I use in all ours.

Dont forget the liquid treatment for Warren HAHA. That sorts many ails very quickly.

Just got a nice bottle of Jameson, going to sleep real well tonight.

A V12 to sort tomorrow, fun day coming up.

 

Remembering the point and condenser days. Some fond, some not so much!

1. Heat does weird things to condensors and carbon core HT leads.

2. Heat cracks distributor caps and moisture settles in and we can't find why one or more cylinders don't fire. Miladies' fingernail polish is a temporary seal.

3. Ballast resistors create heat in themselves, and over time, resistance goes past the desireable reduction.


My own electrical gremlin to track down and fix in the next day or so. No brake lights!!! Switch, bulbs, wire or the failure unit? Sorry, for the post jump, No need to respond.
Carl

 

Evening All, looks like this same issue has come back to haunt me. Here's a round up on what's been done since my last post to this thread.

1. Engine replaced with S3 Engine, but retrofitted with S1 Induction and Exhaust setup.
2. AcuSpark electronic ignition kit fitted to std Dizzy, complete with new Dizzy Cap, HT Leads and Rotor Arm.
3. New Coil fitted.
4.Voltage checked at the following places and all good:
a. No.1 Fuse
b. Tacho
c. Ballast Input
d. Ballast Ouput
e. Coil (+)
f. Coil (-)
g. I even ran a new positive feed from the fuse to the ballast resistor and it made no difference?

The car turns over well and when the (intermittent) fault is not there will start on the button every time.

Symptoms of the fault in it's current guise are engine running smoothly with the occasional (every 2-3 secs) the engine cuts and then jumps back to life. This happens at idle, where it's at its worst, and on the highway, where it is just plain annoying!

Diagnosis: I'm thinking the short must be between the (-) LT Coil terminal and the Dizzy?

Advice appreciated.

Woz

 

Not really advice , just some questions.

Is the distributor a new/different one with the series 3, or did you transfer it from the old motor?

When you say the voltage at those points is good, are you testing it during the problem and see it good/stable ? or testing it statically?

Surprised that the ballast resistor is still there, with electronic ignition and a new coil is it needed?

Seen similar problems on other cars that have ended up being failing sensors (crank position usually) giving false ECU inputs. I guess not relevant, S1 induction = carbs?

 

Damn.

That lead would be a smart thing to simply replace.

Does that system still use the Lucas "thru body" plastic connector, with a pigtail lead inside. That is another suspect area.

Is the engine earth strap/s intact and doing what they should be doing??.

 

Yarpos, the Dizzy is the from the original S1 engine.

AccuSpark can be setup with the ballast system and the new coil (bought this morning) is one to use with a ballast resistor (I'm going to assume, that it can't be used without one?)

As for engine earth straps, I'll have to confirm, but the engine turns over with great pace (Optima Yellow Top Battery), so I'm assuming the earth strap is pretty good?

 

I hate to say it, but a past experience with another critter was similar.
intermittent drop out of a cylinder. and, somewhat similarly a 6 cylinder alloy engine!!!


After chasing all kinds of electrical issues, when it was running on 5, I did what I should've done. Early on. Compression teat when it was on 5. eureka, 0 in one hole. Pulled that head. eureka again, a loose and cocked valve seat!!!


Must have seated and then that cylinder fired. thence, it cocked and that cylinder did not fire.


A local machine shop fixed it. A bit crudely, but adequate. It ran just fine thereafter.


Carl

 

I think thats where Grant's thinking was going orginally when this thread first started in 2013. Since then Woz appears to have jacked up the distributor and changed everything else. A similar problem has travelled between a S1 and S3 motor. So while he could be cruelly unlucky and have similar mechanical issue on two motors it seems more likely he has an electrical issue around the distributor.

Woz the ballast resistor question was just general, I doubt is has anything to do with your issue if you have tested it. I am just a simpler is better type of person. An electronic dist and a ballst resistor seem to be heading in two different directions. Thats a bit of a theoretical point (and just an opinion) and doesnt have much to do with your problem. Sorry for the red herring.

To Grants point re earthing. There are 18 or so ground points in these cars, so they thought they needed many effective earthing points. The starter motor earth path may not be an indicator of the ignition earth path. Earthing issues throw up the most obscure issues at times and can be difficult to diagnose, its well worth checking/cleaning (especially having been through and engine swap)

 

Thanks Guys, unfortunately work is a bit hectic and I haven't had the opportunity to look at the car again this week. Hopefully in the next 24 hrs?.....

 

I had to take a drive on Thursday and can provide some more symptoms:

- The seems to run really well with a positive load on the level or on an uphill stretch of the highway, but when going downhill and the load comes off, this is when the engine starts to miss.

- The engine also starts to miss if the road is a bit bumpy (not highway).

These symptoms had me thinking the fault must lie with the Dizzy. Yesterday I took it off the car, stripped it down and cleaned it. I noticed that the advance plate wasn't very smooth and sticking in one particular spot, so I separated and cleaned both halfs and the operation was a lot better although the bearing surfaces are still a little scored.

I reassembled everthing, put the Dizzy back on the car and fired her up. I was immediately disappointed to hear the engine miss as before. I went out on a test drive and while the engine seemed to pull even better under load, it was still the same off load.

I did blow into the vacuum unit, but I couldn't seem to find any obvious leak. Not sure it was an effective test so now I'm thinking it could be the vacuum side of things?

Damn this frustrating!

 

I will also add that when I turn the ignition on the tachometer goes to full deflection which still points to an electrical issue, and probably on the positive side of the Dizzy?

 

The Tacho gets it signal from the -ve side of the coil. Sounds like something in the -ve side of things.

Does the tacho settle when the engine starts?

Does the tacho act odd when the "misfire" begins?

Maybe the tacho feed wire is the culprit?